Mafia: The Rellyw Rebellion - Game Thread

Xenia

I'm confused is it daytime or night time? 

Aarbrok

Its daytime, the night just ended...

Minarael

During the night rounds, we had a target not get hit because of jail, no death last night, and the Conclaves tied up. We could be in a lot worse shape right now.

Esper

Aryanne said:

Have we gotten particularly lucky in the night rounds? How do you figure? Just because we haven't killed one of them off yet, or what?

Because the Indorani haven't killed anyone, and they're the only ones with a factional kill. Though it's curious that you phrase it as "we haven't killed one" when talking about night rounds. Please explain.

Ilyon

@Omei On the previous day's voting lists, the numbers do not match up - dask has 12 votes and 13 people listed, while mesk has 3 votes and 2 people - is that just a mistake, or a result of some power role being used?

Omei

That was a a mistake.

Llok

Esper said:

Aryanne said:

Have we gotten particularly lucky in the night rounds? How do you figure? Just because we haven't killed one of them off yet, or what?

Because the Indorani haven't killed anyone, and they're the only ones with a factional kill. Though it's curious that you phrase it as "we haven't killed one" when talking about night rounds. Please explain.

You've read it wrong, Esper.

Moirean

There was no 12-hour warning this night, so I suspect we also lucked out with not every power acting. I know the vigilante intended to take someone out, to try to get the jailer to work with us.

As for what happened:

- Haern was jailed and Indorani tried a hit on him.

- Piper was the intended nature scout. Art switched the two of them.

The Syssin has gotten in contact with me (though, can you send me info about your other night investigation results, too? We've seen who you've looked at, we just don't know what you learned).

The Jailer is still jailing people at random. Haern could be Conclave, but he's not Indo.

Esper

@Llok: if I squint hard enough I can almost see what you mean. I wasn't necessarily casting aspersions upon Aryanne's character, but rather seeking clarification for my own confusion.

Moirean

Yeah, I think she was saying "Because we haven't killed a Conclave."

Moirean

Question for @omei: -Are host to the Dhasan of Science, who may investigate the role - not the allegiance - of any other player each night.

Does this mean they get infor back like rellyw/Conclave/Indorani, or do they get back Jailer/Experiment/etc?

Omei

They get back role name. Not rellyw/Conclave/Indorani.

Moirean

So they basically get the allegiance, then, right? There aren't any duplicate roles are there?

Omei

True. No allegiance, to a Science investigation, would imply rellyw.

Macavity

that seems a bit unfair....if they are given the roles then they clearly know the allegiance, in which this counters your role description of..

"who may investigate the role - not the allegiance - of any other player each night"

Teani

Maybe the formulation is meant to say that the investigations are more detailed than just letting them know the allegiance, i.e. it shows the ROLE, not just the allegiance.

Omei

In this game, owing to the initial setup, having a role implies allegiance. This is an oversight that I should have paid more attention to. However, I hardly think it gives the Rebel Conclaves an unfair edge.

To clarify the Dhasan of Science's power, they will receive, when investigating, one of two results. The name of their mark's role - or the role they're disguised as - or no result. In this setup, no result implies rellyw, but there's a chance that it may simply be a person disguised otherwise.

Teani

Alright, hoping Moirean gets some more information from the Syssin about previous rounds so we might get a potential target to hit. I need to run through the posts again to check things before even considering a vote.

Moirean

Yeah, I'd say in a future game swap how it works or make multiple roles with generic overlapping names that the investigator could see. As is, there's not much ambiguity - a result of Wildcard is pretty clearly Indorani while Conscript is pretty obviously rellyw, but you could have them both return a "Replacement" role on investigation, so people wouldn't know what side they are on. Anyways, just random tangent for future games.

Moirean

Regarding actions, Syssin hasn't found anyone guilty yet, from what I have heard.

Vharen

I still think Meskhenet is suspicious, and I can restate my reasons if necessary. Aldric is the quietest, so getting him to talk might be in order. Aryanne had a slightly eyebrow raising gaff, but nothing concrete. Xenia's "riling attempt" still doesn't sit well with me.

The Art and Nature moves overlapped. Given they're both Loyalists, I would assume this is deliberate, not due to lack of coordination. Neither is particularly talkative. Could have just been a way to point fingers more heavily at them. It could also have been an attempt to shy attention away from Piper without removing her voting ability this round. But, I'm conjecturatin'

I honestly don't know which way I want to go. Any other tidbits of thought would be nice.

Xenia

Vharen, not much I can say other than I'm Rellyw. I was not wanting to fall into that 'too quiet' category while also attempting to see reactions and what would happen. I think in past games it's been established that I'm not the smartest player....however focusing a train on me  would simply be a waste of the town's time. They'd learn belatedly yet another confirmed Rellwy. 

Macavity

@Vharen you seem to point a lot of fingers, but remember, for each finger you point you have four pointing back at you.....

Vharen

@Macavity - I'm pretty okay with actually contributing and getting flak for it. Why not try adding more thoughts than that yourself? You have to have more going on in your head than a reaction to one post from me.

@Xenia - I don't need you to defend yourself from that again. It's been discussed. I'd say just contribute more, add whatever thoughts or questions you have.

Demarcus

Macavity said:

@Vharen you seem to point a lot of fingers, but remember, for each finger you point you have four pointing back at you.....

Not if you use knife hands...

Toz

^Beat me to the punch.

Minarael

Yea, I really don't buy the whole, "Suggesting someone might be worth a look at is SUSPECT BEHAVIOR," nonsense.

Let's just stall the entire game and sit in our respective corners starring daggers at one another. That'll certainly resolve this!

I'm keen on Meshkenet, but in reviewing this entire thread one person is definitely sticking out as highly suspect. 

Macavity has not once voted, but he's been talking up a storm. Generally making pointless comments, bickering against solid ideas, or questioning rules. He made a really big stink out of being sent out, and that he couldn't vote. Which seems odd given that he didn't bother to vote during either of the two day rounds. Plus, he pointed a finger at our only reasonably confirmed rellyw, Moirean -after- we'd gotten it established that she was probably safe.

That's enough for me to feel like he's scum that needs put down.

Vote: Macavity

Minarael

Make that 'either of the other two day rounds'. There have been three. Why complain about being sent out and unable to vote when you could have during -two- other day rounds? 

Macavity

actually I did vote the first day..

Macavity said:

VOTE: No Lynch

and for the second day I did not vote because I was away during part of that time and by the time I got back all the votes were already placed.

As for the 3rd day, I was not able to vote because of my little trip.  And if i am going to be voted on as being a bad guy simply because I am asking questions to better understand the game then I am sorry but that is not a very good thing to do, regardless of who the person is.

I find it interesting that at first you were on the fence about a no lynch

Minarael said:

Dang. This got started with a vengeance. I thought I had a pretty solid handle on things till I read the back and forth.

I don't think plucking a name out of a hat is a good plan. I think you are more likely to hit someone you want to keep alive than not doing so. I'm on the fence about nolynch, though. It's a rough choice. It's hard to have a solid lead so early in the game but doing nothing isn't really a great option either.

I have to think more about the roleclaiming stuff. After coffee. Once a strong role is publicly acknowledged, a lucky hit in the night can make that target vulnerable really early. I need to go back and read all the different rules/roles a bit more thoroughly. 

then later you decided that even if we hit a rellyw it would be ok because .....

Minarael said:

My guess is not to edit because we want to see thoughts, even if, ESPECIALLY if, people change their mind on something. Logic trails are necessary in these games.

By my calculations, we have almost a dozen rellyw without an important role. There's a decent chance that even if we pick out someone on our team, they aren't going to be vital. Further, we have a better chance of getting information from pointing fingers that we get from sitting on our hands.  

then you decided to point a finger at someone else to get them talking..

Minarael said:

Aren is just bandwagoning without having said a single word previously, without explaining his rational at all. Aarbrok did that also, twice, but the first time was as an ice-breaker and has at least spoken up. Macavity has also been talking.

Not contributing at all but voting is icky. Therefore I'm voting Aren.

Vote: Aren

Then you still keep to your vote because you seem to think the odds are good that we lynch someone it wont be someone important...

Minarael said:

Okay, I think I'm starting to grok this general argument better.

No Lynch 

Pros:

- We don't hit a Conclave member and give them the opportunity to start indiscriminately killing and adding to the cycle of woe.

- We gain information during the night from various abilities that may or may not be inaccurate (there are a lot of ways to divert/fiddle with information in this game). 

Cons:

- Indorani still get to off people. So while we are sitting on our hands, they are plucking out everyone who isn't them. One free night of mayhem, possibly two as I heard someone mention. They have the same chance of hitting a power role as the rest of us, but it doesn't matter as much to them. They need to eliminate -everyone-. 

Lynch Someone:

Pros:

- We have a strong chance of hitting either a baddie (who all have power roles so we are taking out someone useful who wants to kill us), or a rellyw with no power role. While it would suck to off a rellyw, it's information gained at a fairly low cost. We have nearly a dozen normal citizens. We have wiggle room.

Cons:

- We might hit the Jailer/Syssin/Warden/Vigilante/Conscript. That would suck. If we hit anyone who isn't one of the first four, we still have the Conscript. If we hit the conscript at this point, it's just sort of like losing a wildcard. Sucks, but not terrible. 

- We might give the Conclaves power. This can go both ways. A conclave with power has minimal interest to help or hurt us. Once the other Conclave and the Indorani are handled, it becomes a power struggle in which they gain zero benefit from giving rellyw any knowledge, so they are a lot more likely to remain silent and neutral in rellyw struggles while they establish their own power.

I actually expected to be all RAWR LYNCH, because it still seems really, really odd to me to give the Indorani a free night. A closer examination is making me lean more towards Moirean's idea. It may be to the rellyw's benefit to avoid offing a Conclave member until we have a stronger understanding of the lay of the land. 

Still keeping my initial vote, but starting to reconsider.

Insisting that a no lynch is a REALLY bad idea....

Minarael said:

I just can't get over the fact that no lynch seems like an astoundingly -bad- idea. 

Like Periluna said, we get information from talking. We don't need to sit on our hands to make that happen. We don't gain anything by sitting around and waiting for others to pick us off. We already -have- information. I think we can even begin to pluck out threads of suspicion based on what we have already seen presented. 

It's going to be a slaughter regardless. We -know- we are losing someone tonight, regardless. It might not be one of us, it might be a Conclave member. If it's a Conclave member, then tomorrow night we'll see two slaughters, not one. Any information gained tonight with powers is suspect because of the powers of the Conclaves. The longer we leave the Conclaves/Indorani in power unchecked, the faster we die. 

We need to vote on a lynch. I'm sticking with Aren for a bandwagon vote with no explanation. No lynch is just a bad, bad plan.The more I think about it, the less I like it. 

then when it seemed the majority is going with No Lynch you quickly change your vote which allows the Day Round One to come to a close....could this be because you wanted to use the Night Round One to Lynch someone off??

Minarael said:

Yea, pretty much with Teani. Rather no lynch than no vote. Omei's kinda vicious, guys. I -think- we are caught up on votes anyhow, but just in case. 

Vote: No Lynch

Then you start off Day Two with the votes going after someone, and you did not go back to your original vote of Aren, which does not make sense.  This vote was done after another voted for Mesk as well....So seemed you were trying to get a bandwagon going by chance??

Minarael said:

Yea, you know. A little less than half chance for offing a baddie isn't super terrible, plus feeling a little vindicated by the failed attempt to off the other especially mouthy chick. 

I think shining a spotlight on the silent ones is a good plan. 

I'll bite.

Vote: Meskhenet

quickly moving your vote again to another individual

Minarael said:

@Damonicus - I am...fairly sure the warden was just responding to the general series of events, not necessarily saying that the warden saw the indorani getting up to bad business. 

@Llok - While I think the initial train on you was poorly started, your explanation of the series of events that followed is not quite accurate. Frankly, offing you is probably useful whether you are guilty or innocent, because you tend to instigate a lot of baffling, useless discussion. Having sat on it for a bit, I think I'm generally in favor of training you simply to keep things moving in a good way. Plus Vharen has a good point about you being awfully quiet this time 'round comparatively. 

Unvote: Meskhenet 

Vote: Llok

you pointed to Llok being a distraction??  Distraction from what??  your master plan to off people in your favor??  Maybe...

Minarael said:

Llok, I am not easily baited into stupid arguments by childish insults. 

Watching this thread and the previous one, I have noted a trend in the discussion that you generate. It's not productive or useful. I don't feel like going back through all seven pages of this discussion to point it out to you in detail.

Quite simply put, you are a distraction we don't need.

keeping with Dask for chain jumping when you did it yourself in the past already....

Minarael said:

I really don't agree that we don't have much to go on. Yes, the power roles are more complex, but I've managed to gather suspicions on a number of people based on their behavior. Nearly everyone has posted. There are things to analyze. People are simply being paralyzed because there isn't certainty. 

There isn't going to be.

We are going to have to take risks to win.

I'm voting for Daskalos because he has been -active- in the thread, yet said little. He's jumped on trains with not much logic. His defense was ridiculous. Because trains on him keep oddly dying even when there is more logic behind them than 'this person was quiet'. 

There are a few other people who are on my list of potential scum, but since we need to push things forward, I'm sticking to Daskalos until he's dealt with or something gives me really strong logic against someone else. 

This post below is also interesting....perhaps you wished you did this before Moirean was confirmed good, missing your chance to win the game with ease??

Minarael said:

Has your role been verified, really? You haven't revealed the name of the other confirmed member. It's kind of understandable for someone to be nervous. If I was Conclave, I'd be trying to do what you are, ingratiate, get key members, and coordinate the deaths of the Indorani and other Conclaves before wiping out important roles in the rellyw and taking the rest out one at a time.

Instead of asking for blind trust, figure out a way to alleviate justifiable nervousness. We do need to work together, but your method of making demands isn't going to really help the situation.

Macavity

with all this....  I believe you are scrum

VOTE: Minarael