Mafia: Lifers vs Darkies

Aryanne

I am going to maintain my NoLynch vote, unless Ezalor is sincerely saying "I don't want to play anymore" and is taking his ball and going home. In which case, I'll vote for him just to shake off the dead weight of someone who doesn't want to play and get this several-days-long-first-day moving forward.

VOTE: NoLynch

Teani

Being new to these things, I'd like to ask if we really should try to vote out one of the more active speakers, who makes sense even though being suspicious, at the very first round? Wouldn't it be better to see if we can get one of the less vocal players involved? I don't know if it's best to do this by voting on them or not, but considering the lack of certainty, I'd rather vote for a quiet one to see how they respond. Please give me some advice?

Omei

It's good to contest people to see the reasoning they give; even if it's not immediately useful, it builds up a precedent and a context that can be referred back to in later rounds. Part of the psychology in Mafia is looking for inconsistencies or other suspicious behavior, so every post made, every bit of detail provided, every vote cast, helps the town. The less information they have to go on, the closer they are to square one, and the more of an advantage the scum has over them.

So yes. Voting for someone quiet is good.

Omei

Like so:

Valenae. Justify yourself.

VOTE: VALENAE

Macavity

VOTE: Esper

Esper

I've mentioned my awareness that being outspoken makes you a target, either of lynching or of the mafia, but my interests have always been aligned with the town. We're in this as a team, so even if I die, when you see that I am innocent hopefully you will agree with some of my reasoning. I won't claim that I perfectly understand what the most strategic decision is, but I know what makes sense to me, even if some of my alternative scenarios are not according to the ideal plot.

Since I haven't been asked any specific questions, I'll lay out some premises that led to the conclusions I've drawn. I ask you to look at them as see whether the make the most sense for the town, or not. If you have anything specific to ask me, please do.

Premises: the majority of the town believes that nolynch is beneficial to the vampires; conversation is beneficial to the town.

Conclusions: I voted for Macavity because the allegation against first voter might incline people to be quiet. I voted for Setne because he hadn't participated yet.

Premises: we need verification in order to build trust; Aldric offered a plan for for Xenia to prove herself; having a rallying point is a strong advantage for the town.

Conclusions: I showed my support for the neutral plan that offered the clearest proof to the town. I tried to pick holes in alternative plans

I don't know if I have been irritating or overbearing to everyone else, but I've mostly been trying to respond to questions which I have been asked. With more people joining the conversation hopefully I won't be so central to it.

Alexina

Sorry, guys! I've been celebrating midsummer (with delicious meatballs and potaties) and spent the last few days playing roleplaying games with my friends. I've read through the thread now, though (mostly skimmed it, actually, although I'll read it through more thoroughly later today). Whoever thinks it's a good idea to vote for no lynch needs to change their mind, but, uh, people are not very outspoken and there's not really all that much to go for. Also, please don't vote for yourselves and drop out of the game. Uff.

I'll vote for Esper for now.

Piper

I'm kind of disappointed that we're rebooting a bit after all the arguing back and forth. Also about Ezalor's not playing because, durnit, he was fun to listen to. S'hard to keep up with all the big words flying around, you know?

Vote: Esper

Omei

I'm kind of disappointed that you're all voting for Esper. Why? Because Ezalor said he was the Bloodborn? You should be using this first round to point at the quiet people and make them speak up so we have more precedent and information for round two. If Esper is the Bloodborn - and I'm not necessarily ruling that out as a possibility - we can always get around to him in later rounds, where his actions will speak for themselves. Let's not blindly jump on the lynch train here. Let's generate some advantages for ourselves. We still have about a day left. Optimal scum play is to stay quiet and hide among the silent majority.

My vote's still on Valenae.

Teani

Yeah, hope @Ezalor won't drop out, cause he's a vocal participant in the game who makes sense. There are several who hasn't said much at all and it would be nice to hear at least something from them other than a simple one liner.

I'll add my vote to Omei's to see if we can get a response.

Unvote Setne
Vote Valenae

Piper

Omei said:

I'm kind of disappointed that you're all voting for Esper. Why? Because Ezalor said he was the Bloodborn? You should be using this first round to point at the quiet people and make them speak up so we have more precedent and information for round two. If Esper is the Bloodborn - and I'm not necessarily ruling that out as a possibility - we can always get around to him in later rounds, where his actions will speak for themselves. Let's not blindly jump on the lynch train here. Let's generate some advantages for ourselves. We still have about a day left. Optimal scum play is to stay quiet and hide among the silent majority.

My vote's still on Valenae.

Maybe because this round's lasted so pitting long that we're all looking for the results of our votes. you can fling them left and right but when something's finally voted on and then removed, that's demoralizing. We all want to see something -HAPPEN-. I don't know about the rest of you, but I just want to sleep and find a Bloodborn dead when I wake up.

Esper

You'll be disappointed if you vote for me, then.

Xenia

Guys, why are you voting for @Esper? Honestly, he was the only one who bothered to speak up and respond in some sort of challenging fashion to @Ezalor. I'm not saying that @Esper is innocent, but it just doesn't make sense for us to go after him based on @Ezalor's accusations. 

I'm torn on what to do, I still think a no lynch is better, but at the same time, because I can't protect anyone tonight, I'd like to at least get a Vampire out if we can. I don't think it'll help us more to clutter the information we've attained thus far with new input, and would likely force another power role out -- this would not be to the town's favor. I'd like the Daru to attack me tonight so that all shadow of a doubt is removed from my head, and I can then start gathering role claims and we can all get the ball rolling. 

My Current vote remains the same: 

NO LYNCH

Macavity

not to be mean or rude.....I just wish we would kill someone already and move on to night!   This day 1 has gone WAY too long!

Ilyon

VOTE: Valenae

Let's go with this random vote, then. And yeah, this round is getting a tad long (probably the norm in the more "intense" mafia games, but less so in our setting).

Moirean

Sorry. It just would have been silly to replace Setne only to have the person be instantly lynched, hence to reboot of the votes. That said, I'm (finally) going to sleep after the Great Hunt. When I wake up, day round ends no matter what. If you don't have 9 votes on one person, it'll be a no lynch.

Esper=4 (Periluna, Macavity, Alexina, Piper)

Valenae=3 (Omei, Teani, Ilyon)

Ezalor=2 (Arbre, Ezalor)

NoLynch=2 (Aryanne, Xenia

Omei

Xenia, a no lynch is utterly useless to us.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but the lynch is the only method of killing that the entire town can directly exercise.

Our odds, at present, involve sixteen players. I reiterate: sixteen.

Of these sixteen, one is all but confirmed to be our Luminary: you.

That leaves us with fifteen.

Of these fifteen, four are vampires and one is the Syssin. That's five people the town has to eliminate in order to win.

This means that right now, we have a 1/3rds chance of offing one of our scum if we pick at complete random. Those odds will only improve as the game progresses and more and more of us die. Therefore, it is my ardent suggestion that we pick a vote, any vote, before Moirean awakens and wastes our opportunity, but I would urge you all to select carefully, even then.

I have yet to see Valenae speak up in her defense, or suggesting a lynch of her own. Esper, on the other hand, is either speaking eloquently in his own defense or crafting a rope to hang himself by in later rounds. If we eliminate him now, we lose someone who's generating conversation; if we go after quiet people, we get more participation and more information. Even playing casually, the benefit of this approach should be evident: it will encourage people to speak up and participate in the game instead of hiding in the sidelines.

Killing the more vocal people in the game gains us absolutely nothing; not lynching anybody gains us absolutely nothing. That's why I urge you all to either vote for Valenae, or someone else quiet who strikes you as dodgy. Esper can only help us if he keeps posting.

Ezalor

Eh. I'm out of my element here, and usually I play Mafia games very, very aggressively. I invest a lot into it so emotions run hot. I think I'm trying to bring my "metagame" and what I am used to into an environment that isn't at all the same. I don't really want to get into actually getting angry at people and making angry posts.

I know I'm being a bit of a unicorn right now (ok maybe not just a bit) but I think I might become an even bigger and angry unicorn as the game goes on. I'm actually not a very kind Mafia player (:D) and I don't want to bring that into Aetolia. I was getting to a rage-y point so I needed to take a few steps back and I was kinda just hoping you guys would get rid of me.

What Omei says makes sense, you can't keep non-posters around and the longer Esper stays alive the clearer a picture you'll get of his alignment since he's actually posting.

Unvote Ezalor

Vote Valenae

Xenia

Well, the arguments laid out by Omei make sense. I've taken chances on lower odds than a third. 

Unvote No Lynch

Vote Valenae

Aryanne

Now that there's actually been a decent amount of discussion and finger-pointing, I feel it's reasonable to actually throw around some accusations and votes other than nolynch. Also, I can accept the argument that "If everyone just goes with nolynch, no one will ever talk, because they won't need to explain themselves and nothing will be accomplished" as reasonable. As long as "lynching for the sake of NOT nolynching" is not employed, because that is a LOT worse.

I still don't feel especially tingly on anyone in round one here, at least not enough to sentance then to get kicked off so early and still maintain my stance that "4:16 is not good odds" (5:15 if counting for syssin and assuming Xenia's truth) until we have some sort of evidence via night-death.

My strongest tinglies are on Valenae, but she mentioned she was in the process of moving (did I hear wrong?) explaining her limited participation so I'm loath to get her trained out in round one when she just hasn't had a chance to defend herself yet.

Equal to my desire to win is my desire to give everyone a chance to have fun. /me usually loses this game

Omei

Aryanne, if you want to win, why are you giving the scum an early edge by not voting? People die in this game. That's how it works. The scum sure aren't going to hold back, so why should we? I think you are underestimating how good these odds are. Next round, if we have lynched nobody, the odds are five to nine. Five to eight, if the Syssin fires. The scum only needs a few more kills to control the game.

The claim made by Ezalor is that scum stay quiet in games with a silent majority. My experience with the game leads me to agree with this statement. If we could generate more information, I'd love to, but time is ticking away and we're throwing away an educated, 1/3rds chance of making the game easier.

I'll take those odds. The better they get, the worse off we are.

Valenae

Omei said:

Like so:

Valenae. Justify yourself.

VOTE: VALENAE

Wut

Valenae

Actually, Moirean: replace me too. I've got a LOT of problems cropping up with the move and I don't really have the time to devote to this or, actually, the patience to deal with Omei for extended periods of time. 

Aldric

There's absolutely no need to be insulting, this is a game.

If you're dropping out yourself though then, I'll switch my vote.

Vote: Valenae

(I didn't write unvote because it was Setne, who isn't playing any more)

Macavity

UNVOTE: Esper

VOTE: Valenae

Aryanne

@moirean

Please don't replace another person? It sets us back to a neutral and makes today seem unbelievably long and really messes with the building suspicion/information gathered. Replacing with @Omei messed stuff up enough. If @valenae wants to quit the game, would you let us vote her out / vamps kill her off instead?

Valenae

I mean, do what you need to do because I thought at least by now we'd be through with the first round and my plans have changed - meaning, I'm driving 1200 a little sooner than expected. Plus, if this is how long the first round takes I'm not sure I want to spend a month and a half locked in a mafia game. I'm not meaning to be insulting but I don't think I can really give 100% to it. 

Esper

@Valenae: sorry about your time commitment but I agree with everyone else about dropping out.

unvote: setne

VOTE: Valenae

Angwe

Guess that makes things simpler.

VOTE: Valenae

Iosyne

Vote: Valenae