Mafia - Endings in Esterport: Return of the Illuminai

Xenia

The cult attempted to take Lehar, who was our Carnifex and died rather than join their ranks. This is why the Cult did not grow in size. As for the Sentinel role claim, I see it as the defender's best chance to gain insight on the happenings of the night and working together to ensure the Sentinel stays safe.

Zechs

Absolutely. So you're saying you want the sentinel to "come into the light."

My vote is for: Xenia. Still.

Serrice

I mean, that logic seems kind of faulty @Zechs , since the cult KO'd the Carnifex and only defenders can be converted. Did you misunderstand the Prophet's power?

Xenia

@Zechs are you concerned the cult will go after the Sentinel? My understanding is if the Sciomancer is watching over the Sentinel, no harm will befall them and they will have the freedom to maneuver as needed.

Apart from this worry, what else concerns you about the proposed plan of action?

Zechs

Serrice said:

I mean, that logic seems kind of faulty @Zechs , since the cult KO'd the Carnifex and only defenders can be converted. Did you misunderstand the Prophet's power?

Sure, you could say that. I apologize that I don't associate myself with the power of this cult as much as you seem to.

Teani

There seems to be a lot of confusion when it comes to what people are capable of or what happens when they act. Either @Zechs is incredibly misinformed or trying to add to confusion. I find it rather stupid to base ignorance on lack of association with the enemy. Isn't it better to actually know stuff if you want to defeat them?

Zaila

On one hand, I want to yell at Lehar, "SEE?! THIS IS WHY WE DON'T KILL PEOPLE WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE TO WORK WITH!" But. You know.

Wow. Oi. Wow.

I feel very much like Tech's is trying to come across more obtuse than he is in order to feign innocence.

Vote : Zechs

It is really hard to give a full explanation to a vote on a phone

Sibatti

I don't see it as feigning innocence, at best he's trying to muddle the waters or target someone specific..

Zechs

A vote for Zechs is truly a "shot in the light" and a win for the cult. Or do you really believe, @Zaila, that someone calling for one of our last heroic defenders has positive intentions for them? How long until our Sciomancer falls giving way to the Sentinel - only to have their name out in the open for easy slaying?

I made a mistake understanding the power of the Cult. Forgive me. I don't consort with such villains and, as such, it should be expected that I don't quite understand their power. If you can see beyond a mistake, though, and at what @Xenia is calling for...

I would think that sentinels work best in secrecy. Or, you can oust their name and put me on the chopping block and we'll all be labeled as fools and suffer for it.

Zechs

(My friend who is also playing has told me that I should inform you all that this is my first game of Mafia with you all, and my first game in a long time. The method in which you do powers is slightly different so I apologize if I screwed something up. I believe I missed or didn't see / read that the Cult's power was ineffective because it was attempted on the Carnifex. It wasn't an intentional muddling of the waters as Zaila / Sibatti has suggested.)

(I'm also trying to balance this with the role playing aspect which I do not know very well. I apologize for said mistake and I'm trying to keep the flavor of the game in tact.)

Zaila

I think that the other person who was willing to risk putting themselves out there to try and stop a grievous injustice of lynching without cause that also helped avoid yet ANOTHER senseless death (imagine if we HAD lynched someone yesterday?! We'd be down -another- body this morning!) is someone I lean toward faith in. (aka Xenia)

However, I am not inclined to have the Sentinel actual reveal themself, but I would like them to pass along information they gather in some fashion, and the best bet I can see for now is via anonymous message.

((Dude, you're totally fine - in this game we're all going to accuse each other of everything and anything. This includes jumping on each other for screwing up because an experienced player is just as likely to claim inexperience to try and make themselves seem innocent as an actually inexperienced player is to use it as a true defense. I've played a bunch of times and I didn't realize the cult would kill a power role instead of convert them, either. Just remember, we're not accusing YOU of being evil. We're accusing the random number generator of making you evil. Also - I like the RP flair! Makes it more fun!))

Serrice

I don't think @Zechs is bad, no - he's being loud, outrageously so, but a lot of people with that sort of self-righteousness usually end up being not-scum, I feel.

Two of the louder people yesterday, @Karhast and @Ilyon, were rubbed off and both turned out to be not-scum. So I feel we should be looking to anybody who hasn't been speaking much and been trying to keep below the radar. I'm just going to randomly here and do:

Vote: Sibatti

Sibatti

There's nothing to talk about on Day 1 beyond generic complaints about people and confusion over the setting.

When there's a subject worth discussing (such as Zechs' suspicious behavior) there's something worth weighing in on. There are several who haven't even shown up to discuss this morning's events yet.

Considering the fact that Ilyon died to his ally, the "loud people getting snuffed out by scum" theory doesn't hold water.

Sibatti

Karhast, not Ilyon.

Kelliara

Current Standings:

Xenia - Zechs (1)
Zechs - Zaila (1)
Sibatti - Serrice (1)

6 votes needed to lynch.

Xenia

Let me explain further why I believe our Sentinel should not be working in secret. If the Sentinel gets targeted tonight, they will die. If they speak up and the Cabalist knows to keep them safe, that person can effectively operate as our eyes. The risk, if the Cabalist gets targeted one night, is it's lights out the following night. As it is, we don't have the General to tell us whether someone's loyalty is off. So we'll have to go with voting patterns to deduce who has been taken into the cult. We ultimately need at least one trusted, known defender if we're to ensure this cult and that shapeshifter don't succeed.

It's a gamble for sure, but right now, these are the possible outcomes without incorporating the saves and ignoring the lynch for today.
Format - Shapeshifter v Cult v Defenders

Shapeshifter and Cult hit two different defenders : 1v3v4
Shapeshifter and cult hit 2 different defenders and cult hits power: 1v3v5
Shapeshifter and cult hit same defender: 1v2v6
Shapeshifter hits cult, cult hits defender: 1v1v6
Cult hits shapeshifter, shapeshifter hits cult: 0:1:7

If we lynch a defender today and the Shapeshifter and Cult are able to hit two regular defenders, then this Syssin reign is over. I don't like those odds. As it stands, we have very little to go off of other than looking at what people say and how they act. If the Sentinel steps forward, we can eliminate one person as safe. If they speak on what they found, we can hopefully gain more information on who to eliminate.

Going off of lack of contribution, I'm currently suspicious of @Sarita but am holding my vote to see if my argument persuades our Sentinel to speak up.

Sarita

(I actually kind of cut one of my important typing fingers during the night round, so I wasn't really checking forums and doing much typing stuff since then while it's all bandaged and hard to move. I'm a little loopy with pain meds right now, so I'm going to apologize in advance if this doesn't all make tons of sense too.)

That aside, I would say that at a quick glance, I was at least as active in posting as @Arbre and @Koda were, so I'm not sure why I was the only one named as being suspicious?

Secondly, I can see some merits to the idea of the Sentinel role claiming. For one thing, with the Cult and the Shapeshifter both still active at night, we could conceivably have the game lost very quickly unless we unite somehow. Having the Sentinel be protected could buy us time and gain us some sort of information during the next night round.

So while I was going through and counting which people posted how many things, I noticed that all of @Serrice's posts had little keywords like "Mebrene" and "Prophet" and stuff sounded like stuff a Cultist would say. Is it coincidence, or is that suspicious to anyone else but me?

Vote: Serrice

Koda

I think Xenia is trying pretty hard to get the Sentinel to come out, especially when we can't really guarantee that they'll be protected if/when they do reveal themselves. I can see the merits, but the risk when we just lost some pretty big names is enormous.

Vote: Xenia

Pazradym

The problem is, we defenders are behind the ball now. Its going to take something big to get us back to even equal footing with the cult now, much less back ahead. Yes currently we have more people, but lets do some quick scenarios for the days ahead. Today, we lynch someone, and lets say its perfect world and we bag a cultist. Tonight the cult converts someone, and then the monster devours someone else. Now its still 2 cultist, but only 5 defenders. repeat the day before, 2 cultists and 3 defenders (plus a monster in all these of course.) The only way we get ahead now as defenders is if A.) we manage to drop the cult leader whether by deduction or sheer dumb luck, or B.) The monster starts manages to drop a cultist. Keep in mind this scenario is with perfect lynches (of regular cultists) too, every time we miss from here on out only makes things that much worse with a bigger buffer of comfort for the cult.

We need a show of force here, and the only one we really have to play is the Sentinel. With the General and Carnifex both gone the only defenders moving about at night now will be the Sentinel and the Sciomancer, but if the Sciomancer is covering the Sentinel, it basically becomes a give away that anyone the Sentinel spots moving at night is an enemy of the city. For these reasons, I agree with Xenia, and I believe its become very much a necessity for this to happen to even let us stay in the running for our fair city. If anyone has a serious counter point to this or see something I have missed, by all means please speak up.

Teani

The curious thing is that there have been no anonymous messages. Does this mean that the Sentinel checked up on one of the people who died and therefore has nothing important to share or that they prefer to keep their knowledge to themselves? Are they afraid that there will be fake claims, which we have no way of checking? We have a Sciomancer to protect someone, right? Not a Cabalist, as Xenia said?

Anyway, there's something off about Serrice, but I can't put my finger on it. She seemed too casual in the beginning and she defended Zechs too readily. Might be she's the hungry Shapeshifter.

Xenia

@Teani, you're right, I meant Sciomancer and said Cabalist.

Xenia

Arbre said:

This may have already been covered, but explain to me please: is it better to have someone converted or killed? Or neither, I guess.

Neither is good, but I guess having a person die is better than them converting and plotting against us in the future.

Arbre

Teani said:

The curious thing is that there have been no anonymous messages.

I've been wondering about this one myself. I expected to get several, what with how many special roles we have, but there has been only silence.

Zaila

To be fair - the only LIVING power role that would have any useful information left is the Sentinel from what I can tell. The Prophet really has nothing to share other than... like... proselytizing. And then they'd give themself away, and that wouldn't be very smart. And the Siomancer can really just say "Hey! I protected someone who didn't die last night!" which really isn't helpful information. And what would the shapeshifter say? "I'm gonnna eaaaat yooooou"?

So. HEY YOU. SENTINEL. GIVE US SOME INFORMATION, BUCKO!

Xenia

While I think the defender's best chances lie in the Sentinel coming forward and becoming a public, guiding voice, I can't force his. It would be helpful to hear who was followed, even if the information is redundant.

Assuming our Sentinel is not going to make themselves known, I will turn to what has been said so far.

Teani said:

f about Serrice, but I can't put my finger on it. She seemed too casual in the beginning and she defended Zechs too readily. Might be she's the hungry Shapeshifter.

This strikes me as odd, if Serrice is the shapeshifter, why would she be jumping to anyone's defense? Perhaps you suggest they are cultists defending one another. A possible notion, but I think Zechs is just an overly paranoid defender.

Teani

Possible. I just think she's been using odd phrases and stuff. She's on my watch list.

As for what has been said and what has happened, the events during the night left a lot of chaos in their wake.
Lehar, who seemed relatively neutral in her statements yesterday, went for Karhast, who had voted for Xenia. The Shapeshifter went for the person who had pushed for the most votes. I'm sort of stumped at what to do at this point, especially with so many people not engaging in the discussion and speculations.

I'm leaning towards adding Xenia and Zechs to my watch list. If Zechs somehow manages to turn around, I think Koda would be the closest one to be on my list. There, those are my speculations. Make of them what you wish.

Serrice

I'm letting @Zechs slide because I've definitely seen that sort of bombastic, over-the-top self-righteous aggro before, and almost always, the person has been innocent. Scum are usually more tempered in their approach. @Xenia is proposing a well-reasoned response that again, I've seen someone use before, and they're turned out innocent. Like it or not, until the Scio dies, Sentinel roleclaiming really is the best answer.

OFC, we also seem to be working under time restrictions, so waiting for the Sentinel might not be viable. My own vote still stands.

Pazradym

Alright, alright, fine I get the message. I'll fess up. I am your neighborhood friendly forestal. (aka sentinel, just to be formal about it) I had been in agreement with making my role claim for a while, but I held off in the hopes that someone else would try something rather silly, like making a false claim or anonymous notes so I'd have at least /something/ to give everyone today.

You see a bit unfortunatly, I had the classic insight to stalk our late general, Karhast, last night. His death shortly there after left me with little of use to share. I can say that he visited the home of Serrice last night and did some poking around, but as to his findings in that investigation, I am unfortunately as in the dark as the rest of you.

But as it stands it seems our cultist "friends" will not be so easily baited, and so I'll go ahead and offer all this so that we can hopefully gain some forward momentum in our progress for the day.

Kelliara

The sun hangs high in the sky overhead...

Sibatti

So Paz watched Karhast, who investigated Serrice, but there's no telling what he learned. If the standard rules of the game apply here, any sort of anonymous notes he would have tried to leave would be dependent on the timing - e.g. if Lehar killed him before he tried to leave a note, it wouldn't show. 

There isn't much more to go off of. And again, this is all assuming Paz is telling the truth. 

I am going to tentatively support Xenia and Paz,  and hope that the Sciomancer chooses wisely tonight now that the Sentinel is exposed.

As far as voting goes, I am still undecided.