Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE

Eleanor

Oh man, I had a night like that once, I don't remember who it was- wanna say Sanctus? I could be wrong. But he started chasing me 'cause I was trundling around on leylines. Now, being complete noncom, I panicked and direcalled- he chased me through about six of those until I direcalled right into Enorian, where he managed to corner me in someone's shop.

I didn't have any restoration, so I was pretty much up the creek. Waiting for him to damage-kill me took forever.

Areka

That happened to me once as well, I ended up just sitting down and pausing curing to get it over with, once I got stuck. Still took a while. 

Solaria

Yeah, pretty much the same here. Got cornered in Tainhelm once..just turned off curing and waited.

Ivoln

Same here, absolutely. I also turned off curing, and waited.

Areka

Pft.

Alice

plz to make Belladona appear more or spirits respawn for a bit in the appearing locations... Edit though really it won't stop my tiny toon from being trampled >.<

Missari

Call her Yrtez and she might be so inclined.

Seir

I hear if you stare into a mirror and say her name three times, she'll come...

Oh wait, that's Bloody Mary.

Ferrik

Ergh. I love the Haunted House - don't get me wrong, glad it's back. Last year I tried to go for the Metacarpal Minstrels and on the very last day I -almost- had it, one part left and then it all went poof not to return until now.
Sheesh it is so annoying. If it is not the short, quick repops, then it is the House trapping you in, if it's not getting stuck then it will be other people trying it as well and.. yeah.

I just wanted it for Ferrik's "musicality"  but boy does it seem like you need to have a fancy portal arti or a bunch of friends with a limitless prism tattoo.

Edit: My anguish? Not figuring out the one other thing that makes it easier last year!
Woop woop.

Phoenecia

So, the spirit stallion that you get from the Halloween event. Can we PLEASE have it not be killable since it's technically really limited? Someone killed mine while I was riding it while trying to get spirit essences. The stallion is targettable as a 'spirit'. I'm kind of pissed off about that.

Slyphe

While making them invincible is out of the question, (you can still use an artifact bit) I've gone and removed 'spirit' as something the stallion can be referred to as to prevent this sort of thing from happening again.

Phoenecia

I keep forgetting about the arti bit. >.<

Either way, yay for not being targetted as 'spirit' anymore.

Moirean

Regarding the minor-hunting, stuff - ylem is, for the most part, a PK mechanic, as far as how it is gathered. I kill people to stop them from taking minors that I want to tap, and I see nothing wrong with giving my PKers something to do by sending them out to stop someone from harvesting ylem - it gets PKers engaged and means my city's hunters then have more minors to tap.

Tangentially related:

Lately, I tend to end up feeling like I'm being a unicorn because I do things like PK at PK mechanics like lessers. It's kinda an unfair situation - PKers want to PK, and either we feel like jerks for "teaming" or we sit out and miss PK because we want to try to keep things balanced (which sucks, nobody likes being sidelined) or we get situations where I have to consider telling my citizens to sit out. The last isn't going to happen, for sure. If Spireans want to participate in PK, I'm not going to discourage them. The game's balance is still skewed and I think there were some productive things discussed in the thread we had about it, but I feel like an expectation also came out of that thread for us darkies to "play nicer" or even help lifers learn - but simply PKing along the mechanics we've been given isn't playing mean, so the resulting atmosphere isn't much better since now there's kinda a bit of guilt just for doing PK as designed. Things do seem more polite on the player level and there are definitely productive intentions for the PK scene in the long-term, but it's not very fun or engaging in the short term.

I don't really have any big solutions, but things do seem a bit meh as far as org balance goes and that's kinda dull. I miss having really excellent team fights.

Seir

Moirean, the gripe isn't really that you're pk'ing at lessers. No one is blaming you for doing that. What they're complaining about is that minors is really the only way for the non-combatants to generally participate and there are people who are knowingly taking advantage of this fact to go attack the non-combatants who are trying to find a way to participate in a significant aspect of city management.

PK'ers have plenty to do when a lesser crops up, someone goes into the fracture, and what have you. You don't really need to send them after non-combatants. If they're any kind of competent PvP'er, they're not going to get any satisfaction from it either.

Moirean

After a bit of thought, I think part of what I miss is the objective-oriented approach to battles that the war system gave. Lessers and Ciem are the prime team PK mechanics atm, and they are basically just "wipe the other team" which starkly highlights disparities in team compositions and relative strengths. Objective-oriented battles give more room for other factors to play a part and make an org with weaker numbers or less PK coordination still have room for tactical strength. Obviously the war system had problems, but it also helped fill a niche.

Moirean

Seir said:

Moirean, the gripe isn't really that you're pk'ing at lessers. No one is blaming you for doing that. What they're complaining about is that minors is really the only way for the non-combatants to generally participate and there are people who are knowingly taking advantage of this fact to go attack the non-combatants who are trying to find a way to participate in a significant aspect of city management.

PK'ers have plenty to do when a lesser crops up, someone goes into the fracture, and what have you. You don't really need to send them after non-combatants. If they're any kind of competent PvP'er, they're not going to get any satisfaction from it either.

You get ylem from offering corpses at linked shrines, now, dunno if you are actively playing and saw that addition, but that's a major way for non-comms to get ylem without any sort of combat. It'd be nicer if shrines offered a bit more ylem instead of a 1:1 basis (maybe a ratio similar to Great Hunt points), but you can definitely rack up ylem through that. There is also talk of a second option in the pipeline for non-combatants.

Minors make you open PK and the Academy even warns you about how interacting with them is a PK thing. I think the stuff is a bit wonky as designed, as the activity seems to both promote and discourage PK - it's not easy to find someone tapping because it's over so quick and there isn't any easy to track message unless you are in the local area, so you have to basically chase people around if you want some PK out of it...but it gives an aura and the very act of hunting minors makes you open PK. If they aren't intended to be a PK thing, remove the aura. If they are intended to be a PK mechanic, make tapping minors take longer and give a way for you to use reserves or something to monitor people tapping minors, so 1v1 skirmishes could result more easily.

Regarding the second part of my post, the bit about org balance, it's really only tangentially related and wasn't a response to posts in this thread, but just kinda a "meh" feeling I have atm re: group combat. Part of it that we DON'T have much to do when a lesser pops up lately. Stuff is quiet as heck.

Xavin

The trouble with the war system was how easy it was to game the system and how large an impact the RNG could have on encounters. I mean, we all know that a lot of the time it boiled down to who was willing to be on longer during the night time. And it did encourage some of the worst behavior in the game - for example, repeatedly raiding a target city for a week or longer before declaring war to wipe down morale and com stores. Problem is that it was wiping down -player- moral. I really feel like too much of the war system was based around -player- actions, not character actions, if that makes sense.

That said, there really is a lack of conflict mechanics at the moment. Other than lessers there are holy wars which...well, I can't really say what other orders might have in terms of membership, but I know that Haern's order is basically me and 2-3 other people right now. I would imagine the same is true for most orders, since they're not really orgs that -everyone- cares to jump in.

Moirean

Oh, yeah, I'm not saying just flip a switch and turn the war system back on. Still, it did have some good points, and I think both the PK and politics aspects of the game really are lacking in the conflict it brought - both in more diversity of team PK battles and in the overall level of conflict and clashing it gave us.

Alexina

Moirean said:

Oh, yeah, I'm not saying just flip a switch and turn the war system back on. Still, it did have some good points, and I think both the PK and politics aspects of the game really are lacking in the conflict it brought - both in more diversity of team PK battles and in the overall level of conflict and clashing it gave us.

I personally think the war system back then brought that diversity of team PK battles because we had a more diverse overall playerbase. If Ylem had been introducted five years ago, we would have seen some of the most epic battles ever at lessers/major foci. What I mean to say is that I think a lot of the players who chime for the old war system do so because they remember an Aetolia that is vastly different from the current version. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have a war system or anything like that, just that it's sort of unfair to compare the 'overall level of conflict and clashing it gave us' when the group of combatants is just a fraction of what it used to be (if we had 15-20 active combatants on shadow side and spirit side, then a lot of the ylem battles would be really exciting too).

Jensen

Xavin said:

The trouble with the war system was how easy it was to game the system and how large an impact the RNG could have on encounters. I mean, we all know that a lot of the time it boiled down to who was willing to be on longer during the night time. And it did encourage some of the worst behavior in the game - for example, repeatedly raiding a target city for a week or longer before declaring war to wipe down moral and com stores. Problem is that it was wiping down -player- moral. I really feel like too much of the war system was based around -player- actions, not character actions, if that makes sense.

That said, there really is a lack of conflict mechanics at the moment. Other than lessers there are holy wars which...well, I can't really say what other orders might have in terms of membership, but I know that Haern's order is basically me and 2-3 other people right now. I would imagine the same is true for most orders, since they're not really orgs that -everyone- cares to jump in.

Haern's order needs some work. There wasn't any conflict save for 1 order war while I was on vacation, aaaannnd the order RP was missing. It's sad too because I really liked that group. I've considered trying to stir up trouble with you guys as a fallen hunter, but I didn't want to be an asshole about it. Especially given your numbers

Moirean

Well part of why we've got a smaller pool of PKers is because there isn't a lot of PK going on. Also, for me personally, it was definitely because of the war system itself - having secondary objectives in a fight like marching troops outside of just wiping the enemy team adds another facet to the combat and lets you push for victories even if you are dying. Other tactics, like breaking up teams on the move, delaying groups of enemies, using misdirection, keeping the fight mobile, etc all come into play beyond the usual room fight or ranged fight - lessers are literally just wipe the team in one room. Far more static.

Xavin

Jensen said:

Xavin said:

The trouble with the war system was how easy it was to game the system and how large an impact the RNG could have on encounters. I mean, we all know that a lot of the time it boiled down to who was willing to be on longer during the night time. And it did encourage some of the worst behavior in the game - for example, repeatedly raiding a target city for a week or longer before declaring war to wipe down moral and com stores. Problem is that it was wiping down -player- moral. I really feel like too much of the war system was based around -player- actions, not character actions, if that makes sense.

That said, there really is a lack of conflict mechanics at the moment. Other than lessers there are holy wars which...well, I can't really say what other orders might have in terms of membership, but I know that Haern's order is basically me and 2-3 other people right now. I would imagine the same is true for most orders, since they're not really orgs that -everyone- cares to jump in.

Haern's order needs some work. There wasn't any conflict save for 1 order war while I was on vacation, aaaannnd the order RP was missing. It's sad too because I really liked that group. I've considered trying to stir up trouble with you guys as a fallen hunter, but I didn't want to be an asshole about it. Especially given your numbers

I know we're trying, we really are. But there's only so much we can do especially considering irl busyness. That said, I'm not sure what all you've tried to stir up. I honestly don't hear all that much from the other order members unless I specifically ask.

Jensen

Considered, haven't done. I wanted to launch a solo war vs the order but given the low membership it would have come off as mostly trolling

Xavin

Yeah...that might not be such a good idea, considering :-/

Eleanor

Something that never ceases to make me shake my head in wonder is how bloody verbose Aetolia's PKers can be. I used to enjoy reading the PK forums for Ultima because they were like,

'omg u cheap BB wit ur GA FS aimbot PLD team GG'
'ur only cryin cuz ur 99 IB LLD didnt YN'

Here, if something breaks out, I better get ready to read a novel!

I don't mean anything by this and it probably belongs in the 'love' thread, but I've been meaning to say it.

Moirean

Heh, in Avalon there was a "fighter's" section of the news boards IG. Some of the posts were barely literate spews of ragevomit, but sometimes we got really fun with it. I once wrote a short story satirizing the enemy city's penchant for massive, unprovoked teamings called "A Tea Party at the Warlock's Guild" and my absolute favorite post in any game ever was a play in three acts an old thief wrote about how the guild had this mafioso plan to destroy the entire PK system, hinging on cornering the bee hive market in order to make astrologers (cuz they made voodoo waxes) underpowered in combat. Thief goons kept being stung in the background throughout the skit. 

I kinda miss not having a PK board here in Aet - yeah, sometimes something like that gets nasty and stupid, but it's also kinda fun to just get really creative when you have free license to sling mud. >_>

Seir

The war system was easily gamed, yes. There was very little strategy behind it save trying to conscript a few Howlings before the other side realized what you were doing and did the same. 

I would prefer, if a war system did return, to do the following:

1.) War is obviously a group combat and PvP'er effort. However, soldiers are only ONE aspect of war. The non-combatants should have a mechanical way of contributing to that effort in the form of logistics or what have you. Example: In Lusternia's conflict system of village revolts, non-combatants generally run around the village trying to influence mobs via the "speechcraft" mechanic in the game towards being loyal to their organization. They also go around debating other influencers from opposing organizations in an attempt to "shatter their ego" and leave them unable to debate/influence for ten minutes. While the PK'ers roam around the in village trying to secure it for the safety of the influencers. It's a good system.

2.) War should be objective based, such as securing a resource, specific territory, or what have you. One of the previous failings of the war system was that they were all or nothing affairs. 

3.) Find a way to address zerging and population rushes so that all organizations could participate on a meaningful level. Back when the war system was around and Spinesreach was... well, let's just say that they weren't "war ready". The thought of them participating without getting utterly trounced was impossible because they didn't have the population to go against anyone at the time. I think if there was some kind of group combat mechanic that had "diminishing returns" when people all focused on one person or some such, the game would be a lot better and group combat would be a lot more strategic in kind.

Moirean

Definitely agree. I made a lot of similar points in another thread recently - the system is a good concept, in that it provides a deeper level of meaningful conflict, but the details themselves are flawed. Doesn't mean it should just be deleted forever, though.

Toz

@Eleanor (quoting is hard): I agree. I check the forums and see 23 new posts in Ankyrean Anguish, and immediately know SOMETHING pk-related went down. It's funny how you can tell what's going on IG by looking at the unread posts numbers after waking up.

Moirean

Nothing went down IG. I was just kinda musing.