Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE

Jensen

Moirean said:

Oleis said:

Okay, I checked just to be extra super duper sure. Damariel didn't take any action to modify his temple or prevent player action.

Within a 30 second window, Damariel's priest started yelling at us, Damariel hit people blocking exits as he tried to move through the room while hidden, and wormholes and portals stopped working. If that was not Damariel changing room flags (and I think it's pretty understandable for me to have made that assumption from those circumstances), what was it?

If @Oleis‌ says he double checked with Dam and the area wasn't modified, then I believe him. Could be like Ishin suggested and the area mono arti combined with wormholes not liking a transient area. I'm still going with ghosts!! Anywho we can just raid them again tonight

Moirean

Ugh, no, I need a few weeks before we raid again. Have you read the past several pages of this thread?

That's my rage - it feels like every time I start up some conflict, using mechanics that are there for players to use, I get bitched at and there is an eruption of whining. Raiding, holywars, these things are game mechanics designed to let us players create conflict. It's absurd that I'm being bitched out for using the tools we are given. Why the hell are these things there if we aren't supposed to be using them?

Lim

I want a raid mode where if we get consent from participants (basically, you join up if you want in), all raiders get lesser-type experience. Also, free PK on all those listed as raiders. please!

Aarbrok

If it is any consolation Moirean you sparked an interest in combat again in me and I felt for the first time that there was a lot of unity and fun in a conflict because you and others were encouraging a goal. There was no anger or frustration and it made a PK noob like me feel interested to try to help.

If anything my biggest rage is that the tinge of leadership corruption that Moirean has as a character has been displayed to me on Skype as you "ruining the game" and that "you must be stopped" with ultimately disregarding the fact that your leadership makes spinesreach a generally interesting place to be.

I think if people stopped worrying so much about ego and saving face and took more risks they may enjoy the game more.

Jensen

I enjoyed pking for a reason and not lolylem

Oleis

Moirean said:

Ugh, no, I need a few weeks before we raid again. Have you read the past several pages of this thread?

That's my rage - it feels like every time I start up some conflict, using mechanics that are there for players to use, I get bitched at and there is an eruption of whining. Raiding, holywars, these things are game mechanics designed to let us players create conflict. It's absurd that I'm being bitched out for using the tools we are given. Why the hell are these things there if we aren't supposed to be using them?

I have waffled a few times about whether I wanted to make this a post or a message, but I think saying this publicly is going to keep us both honest about how we behave rather than devolving into a private argument. You were not attacked for your use of mechanics (if you were 'attacked' at all) before people reacted to your behavior. Without stopping for verification or even considering the other side of the story, you started ranting and raving against an oppressive Immortal volunteer with the heavy doses of hyperbole we've come to expect. And because you're an effective, influential player, you had allies who were ready to support you thoroughly, even if that meant also failing to stop, ask, and think about the situation with a cool head.

As I do with anyone on the forums, I had a little list in my head of possible ways you would respond to the events in this thread, and I'm disappointed that your response was "Well, what was I supposed to think?" You were supposed to think "Man, this seems fishy. Let me find out what's up."

There is no reason I should get texts while I'm out to dinner on my first evening off in a month because a player is burning down Atlanta over a misperception that no one could be bothered to stop and consider. The fact that you used in-character methods like Holy Wars to pursue your out-of-character frustrations is completely secondary.

Yarel

Okay. This is not directed at the raiding/Dam issues, though I suppose it sorta touches peripherally on the whole matter.... That said, I rage about the notion of "Well, we don't like what we have going on, but its our RP."
I keep hearing this about various topics. To my ears, it sounds like the most stupid excuse in the world. Sorta like "I didn't mean to kill him, my finger just pulled the trigger!"
People, please stop acting like ooc sensibilities play no part in making decisions in the game. We all make ooc decisions, and act on them. Every one of us. For example, there is absolutely no IC reason why Yarel would not just kill every single Enorian he came across who was weaker than him. After all, he's an evil vampire who believes the lifers are cattle, useful only for their blood. The city and people of Enorian have declared him their enemy, sooo....
So why does he not? Because ooc I know that A ) the admins would, in short order, make me pretty little shrub. B ) I don't see any justification for ruining other players day by killing them when they aren't also into PK.
People make decisions in the game, knowing that game mechanics, and admin intervention will save them from suffering any consequences. If they REALLY had to deal with the consequences of their actions, they would be a lot more careful to make sensible decisions. For instance, if you knew that blanket enemying would result in being killed every time you left the safety of your bed, or that your org may actually be burnt to the ground in retaliation, you might seriously reconsider your position.

I said all that to say this... Stop using 'Our RP' as an excuse to be a douche, cause I don't really want to be getting shrubbed for acting out my RP.

Moirean

@oleis - You should have made that a message. A paid staff member posting about my personality flaws is out of line.

Rashar

Man that Yarel guy. He's pretty smart.

Lim

Just a side note.

I want to give a shout-out to @Maite‌. Her decision to surrender shows great leadership in her character, and great maturity in the player. Respect to Maite!

Nola

We are all under those same sort of restrictions in our rp, because it is a game at the end of the day and certain motivations would be extremely griefy. There are ways around that, like trying to strongarm another city into changing something you don't like by raiding them over and over.

That doesn't give RP any less validation, because that's what it is that led to it - and my character was not apart of that particular policy creation but even if she was because that may have been something she strongly believed in, and I may not have agreed like I don't now, it would still be RP. Because that is called being true to your character in an immersive story building game of roleplay, and there is nothing wrong with that on an ic level.

So no, it is not an excuse, it is a reason. This is an RPG game. All of it.

That is why the issue that some us don't like is less about ooc sensibilities and more about what presents itself in the game to the people who have the power to affect changes. Because I certainly wouldn't approve of anyone changing it 'because the forums exploded about it' instead of realizing just by consideration that there are massive flaws in the way their government functions and change is needed for its benefit.

Nalor

Nola said:

We are all under those same sort of restrictions in our rp, because it is a game at the end of the day and certain motivations would be extremely griefy. There are ways around that, like trying to strongarm another city into changing something you don't like by raiding them over and over.

That doesn't give RP any less validation, because that's what it is that led to it - and my character was not apart of that particular policy creation but even if she was because that may have been something she strongly believed in, and I may not have agreed like I don't now, it would still be RP. Because that is called being true to your character in an immersive story building game of roleplay, and there is nothing wrong with that on an ic level.

So no, it is not an excuse, it is a reason. This is an RPG game. All of it.

That is why the issue that some us don't like is less about ooc sensibilities and more about what presents itself in the game to the people who have the power to affect changes. Because I certainly wouldn't approve of anyone changing it 'because the forums exploded about it' instead of realizing just by consideration that there are massive flaws in the way their government functions and change is needed for its benefit.

@Nola it's all because big bad evil Bloodloch have stopped blanket enemy people in the past week, soo now Enorian has to do the same.. Which is stupid in itself because why should a 'good' City follow something a 'bad' city did? WHO CARES... If you wish to be allied, join a lifer sided guild or please stop raging about it and go out for an hour! Because you didn't care two bits bout it last week when Bloodloch was also doing it before novice got to level 6.

Rashar

@nola, I wish for one week we had free reign to really, truly RP as our characters would behave.

Corpses would be everywhere. People would think before opening their mouths. Enorian would be ash, half the players in the game would have quit, and everyone would be like, man. I wish they thought about some of this stuff OOCLy. Don't they know there are players at the other end of this?

It goes both ways. If you've ever complained about people not caring about the 'players' then you've asked them to let OOC influence their decisions.

Nola

Here is the bottom line: I wish people would play the game instead of playing the forums. Engage the character instead of the player.

Jensen

@nalor no just no. This is between Enorian and spinesreach. Bloodlochs blanket status is something entirely different and not related to what's been happening.

Yarel

@Nola‌ I was not speaking only of the Enorian enemy policy. I chose to use it as an example since it is one that everyone is currently familiar with, and allowed me to avoid calling out, specifically, the people who prompted my post.

@Nalor be for real man. Bloodloch's policy change is about getting rid of something we think is unnecessary, and detrimental not only to our city, but to the game as a whole. In the past, people pointed at Bloodloch as an excuse for why they were justified in using blanket enemying policies. Well, now we have removed that excuse, but we did not do it for the sake of getting Enorian to follow suit. To be honest, the ones of us who made the decision... MAYBE there is one single one of us who gives a lovely fuck whether Enorian ends its policy. Shit man, Yarel is a Consanguine Overlord who loves to raid Enorian. Why in the hell would I expect to ever get allied to Enorian?

I would like to thank @Aishia‌ and @Ciarelle‌ for demonstrating that it is possible to act in a sensible way and to avoid the urge to make things difficult, simply for the sake of doing so.

Jensen

Nola said:

Here is the bottom line: I wish people would play the game instead of playing the forums. Engage the character instead of the player.

We do both! =D

Razmael

If the last 24 hours have showed us anything, it's that this game seriously needs a break from the
Rage thread.

I'm closing the thread. I haven't decided when I'll open it again.