Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE

Nalor

@Moirean YOU was using his temple to raid Enorian or as a base to raid Enorian, I was standing at Four corners for most of it before Valingar and people woke up.

Can we get back onto Real rage or split this to a new topic? "Why do Gods step in when we step on Gods feet?"

Moirean

I'm fine with gods getting involved in PK the day you give you us ways to PK gods.

Jensen

I've Always enjoyed pking their priests and figuring out what they care about. Dam is an easy target since be has a soft spot for mortals and gets angry easily

Aarbrok

@Areka‌ - You are basing this on the limited knowledge of whom has posted and hearsay from not being present throughout the entirety of the day, as much as you are speaking of things which miff you, you are also doing those things yourself.

Some people aside from the main protagonists in this conflict have been speaking, discussing diplomacy and holding discussions to arrange and support certain ventures and putting their little RP cockles on the line for some sort of change, it is alot more than just what you may be seeing from perspective of frustration. I promise.

I have spoke with @Sarkis‌ @Kerryn‌ and will continue with @Cronides‌ ICly as a neutral party who put a wound in his reputation by standing alongside raiders in the initial raid in protest of this enemying the young ones, after an IC complaint from a non combatant who plays on her phone who got threatened by Enorian. Aarbrok is no fighter, nor could he likely duel his way out of a paper bag, but someone once told me to stand up and back up things you support and want to see changed.

I will continue to RP and discuss and work on diplomacy, not for myself but for people who should be considered as more than an enemy....I would say if you want to settle this, the forums.. (For all parties) is not the place to do it.

(As much as we all want to rage)

Rashar

.. I really don't understand your argument, @jensen.

You're not willing to burn down his shrines individually and get a PK aura for days.. but it's ok if your city leader declares a holy war with her God, who isn't even really involved? How is that fun.. for anybody? How is that a realistic punishment for.. anything?

I don't know if you play alts, and I don't really care. If you don't, I know you haven't participated in any of the holy wars lately. Let me tell you something - for anyone but Iosyne's Order and @valingar, they fucking suck. Period. I don't know if I've heard anyone dispute that, -including- Moirean. She -knows- they suck. She -knows- they're pure grief. She -knows- she's being a troll. She's doing it because she's pissed off, and tomorrow she's going to wake up and be like, 'Eh, shit. Guess I overreacted..'

Jensen

I don't stand behind the mentality that you shouldn't act accordingly because they are weak and you are strong. I also am not for removing any conflict mechanism. Hurting his order is hurting him, if you can't handle the outcome of your actions then don't act.

Moirean

We all know Damariel's order is not going to fight it. However, it is the ONLY recourse we have, mechanically.

Continue to slander me and call me names. I'm used to it. I do not think I am doing anything wrong, however - I am using the game's mechanics as they are given to me.

Rashar

@jensen, Spoken like someone who plays recreationally a few hours a week and is, realistically, not going to get involved or burdened by it in any way, shape or form.

It's the same way @phendegwen can back himself into a hole and not budge in his outlook. It's really, really easy to be 'Grr, my views and my religion and my belief, eff you filthy villains I'm not dealing with you!' when you spend what little time you play sitting in the Council Chamber. I think at some point, you're detached enough that you shouldn't even really be allowed to make decisions for or justify something that affects people who're actually involved in it.

But, that's a personal opinion of mine and obviously there are quite a few of you who disagree.

@moirean, Sure. That's probably why that particular mechanic needs to be taken out of your hands. Angry Moirean is fine. Angry Moirean with an Order in her pocket is just bad for the game. Period.

Haven

Sometimes I wonder if we're all playing the same game.

Areka

Sometimes I wonder if we're all even in the same reality.

Moirean

Ignoring the fact that a god fought us and a holy war is the only current mechanical way to strike back....

....I earned the power to declare Holy Wars. It obviously upsets you -- but it also makes a dozen people piss themselves with happiness every time I do. I do not declare them every time I can. I declare them sparsely and the order loves when I do. Moi is also pretty corrupt and abuses power pretty hard, so I find this a very IC thing.

Yarel

Areka said:

Again, in what world does "We're going to be aggressive enemies until you stop treating us like enemies," make ANY SENSE in creating change?

@Areka‌ in what world do governments not wage war when they get fed up with the policies of another country. Seems to me that human history is full of Nation A telling Nation B "Stop that shit or we are going to fuck you up." When Nation B continues, Nation A 'raids,' kills thousands or millions of people. In the end, if Nation A is stronger, it is able to force the desired changes. So yeah. It makes sense. It's how it has worked throughout human history.
Since they took out the War system, we are left with raiding and Holy wars to try to enact this. Granted, game mechanics don't really allow for a satisfying outcome. But hey, we have what we have...

Jensen

Rashar said:

@jensen, Spoken like someone who plays recreationally a few hours a week and is, realistically, not going to get involved or burdened by it in any way, shape or form.

It's the same way @phendegwen can back himself into a hole and not budge in his outlook. It's really, really easy to be 'Grr, my views and my religion and my belief, eff you filthy villains I'm not dealing with you!' when you spend what little time you play sitting in the Council Chamber. I think at some point, you're detached enough that you shouldn't even really be allowed to make decisions for or justify something that affects people who're actually involved in it.

But, that's a personal opinion of mine and obviously there are quite a few of you who disagree.

@moirean, Sure. That's probably why that particular mechanic needs to be taken out of your hands. Angry Moirean is fine. Angry Moirean with an Order in her pocket is just bad for the game. Period.

I play quite a bit, but you're right it won't affect me. Doesn't mean it hasn't effected me before and doesn't mean it won't affect me in the future. God's are responsible for their actions just as we are, there are only a handful of ways to actually attack a god and Moi is using the most effective one. Will it suck for the 3 or 4 members of his order? Maybe idk. Will it be fun for Iosynes order probably. But I'm not going to say they shouldn't act because it might suck for 3 players for a few days. But go ahead, support ending another conflict method so all we have are no xp loss lessers for foci that nobody gives a shit about.

Moirean

I think the main point has been lost in the debate, so I will reiterate it:

Enorian was failing at defending a raid. A god stepped in to help them. This is uncool.

Yarel

OMG. What is the deal with this whole 'I don't like it, ban it!' mentality?

To clarify, I'm NOT talking about @Moirean‌ wanting gods to stay in their places...

Toz

Dat troll flag abuse tho

Nalor

Moirean said:

Enorian was failing at defending a raid. A god stepped in to help them. This is uncool.

protip:: Dont use gods temple to raid a city

Want me to bring out my record player?

Can we change to a different rage instead of one which has been going on for over 3/4 pages? and is going round in circles...

Periluna

I rage that every time I even remotely think about playing again, I read the forums first and ultimately stumble across this thread and go, "Ehhh.. not worth it."

Sarkis

You know what really gets my goat? It's these new fangled mounts. I saw some young fellow riding not more than a few dozen rooms down the highway. Back in my day, we used to walk everywhere. It built character. And callouses on my feet. And now you know why I'm Andy Rooney.

Jensen

Don't let this incident fool you. I still have plenty of non ragey fun. This is the the peak of a years worth of pent up frustration.

Aarbrok

@Sarkis‌ You just made my night, ...freaking Andy Rooney ROFL xD

Rashar

@jensen, just to be straight here.

I have 000000000.00000000000 ( I wanted to emphasize how little problem I have here ) with the raids or just slapping Enorian around until they get rid of the ridiculous blanket enemies. I don't know that i'll happen because the people who can actually make that decision barely play, barely PK, and don't really care. (For the most part, before @areka jumps on me with a dead wench baton). I -hate- the enemy statuses, and personally think everyone in the city should be fair and open PK for you if you have one. ( I bet they'd use them sparingly then! ). So, no worries there.

My problem, and it really isn't a problem at this point because hey, for once it doesn't have any effect on me, is the wielding of Holy Wars as a tool to throw your weight around in a ridiculously one sided and griefy way. It does not promote conflict. It does not close the rift between PKers and non-PKers. It is not fun or productive for anyone but the ganksquad that is going to laugh their way through another night of fluffing killstats.

Aryanne

@periluna - so long as you don't read THIS thread, the forum seems friendly and lovely.

This thread is really one of the worst things to happen to the game, I feel. Rarely are the events that people spend so much time and energy raging over even remotely as negatively effecting to the game or its players as the rage over it is. If people could legitmately say their two cents and let it go, we'd be golden... Alas. Such is rare.

Aishia

Wow.

Ishin

@Alexina - When you step up to defend your city from a raid, you're no longer a non-com for the duration of that raid.

Stathan

I rage at what ever the flying fuck I just logged in to. City raiding and council arguments, even though there was a 3 person agreement on something.

So, my hats off to @Moirean and @Ezalor for being able to handle politics. Same with @Wylliam and @Mariena .

Moirean

@ezalor and I don't handle politics. We make em. IF HE WOULD ACCEPT MY PROPOSAL.

Jensen

Bloodloch and Spinesreach the best worst friends ever

Ishin

Gods shouldn't act like a badass if their order is full of unicorns.

Just saying.

Emelle

@Ishin: That isn't fair at all.