Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE

Moirean

More generally, it's kinda useful to have a city and guild on good terms. Carnifex and Bloodloch are like ships in the night right now, and I really want to fix that, because it's making a weird experience for my new members, and it also feels odd thematically to not have a presence there.

But I don't know the details of this situation, and it sounds more loaded than simply guilds and cities not connecting well.

Ciarelle

I'm honestly not sure if it's more loaded or not. It is definitely a long-term issue. I feel like I put up with a lot of unicorns from Enorian and @Xavin feels like he did as well, and that adds up to about 2 RL years of this sort of stuff. There's been a lot of negativity. That being said, the leader of a Duiran guild with its members based in Enorian might feel like they get the same level of unicorns from Duiran, or @Moirean might feel that way about Bloodloch. 

The fundamental thorn in people's sides seems to be that individual guild members aren't citizens of their home city. It's a cause of resentment but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of examination of why that is so or how you might work around the reality that this is always going to be a potential issue. The guilds generally seem more inclined to want to simply be left alone at worst and be on friendly terms at best. The cities, in contrast, are more likely to be ones both griping about it while simultaneously expecting the guild to make the move to do something about it. I could branch into a comparison between Enorian and Duiran in this regard but, you know, bias.

It has struck me as really strange for months now that this is how it is because @Irruel is right. Guilds don't need the cities. I've got a damn Master Crystal mechanic to deal with and I still think the Ascendril would be pretty much fine without a treaty with Enorian. That being said, we don't do this stuff, play out conflicts of interest and try new combinations of orgs because of the mechanics of it. It's for roleplay and, to tie back to my original rant, it sucks when that gets shut down in favour of some of the walls of silence that crop up instead.

Sessizlik

Worry not, @Ciarelle. Sessi is on the job now. I've never worked with treaties Before, but I hope we will be able to wrap this up sooner rather than later.

Areka

There shouldn't be anything TO wrap up. We JUST got new treaties, that combined all of the old ones, and no one's been able to identify yet IG what it is that they want changed. Just need to get the guilds to accept the pending treaties. The bolded ones below are the new ones that the last Council and Lucus got done.

Edit: I suppose for clarification - it isn't just an Ambassadorial thing. Communication's really awful in the city, and some are trying to help fix that, but overall it's a lot of silence, waiting, with assumptive or snarky replies and no actual engaging in anything that could possibly turn into a discussion. 

  12     Enorian and Templars                   Active           Templars

  19     Wartime Agreement of Enorian, the Beac Active           Duiran

  25     An agreement between the Ascendril and Archived         Ascendril

  28     Enorian and Luminaries                 Pending          Luminaries

  36     Donation agreement between Enorian, th Active           Daru

  39     Donation agreement between Enorian, th Active           Luminaries

  41     Enorian\Ascendril Treaty - 381MA       Active           Ascendril

  59     Agreement of Enorian, the Beacon of Li Active           Luminaries

  63     Donation agreement between Enorian, th Archived         Templars

  85     Enorian and Daru                       Pending          Daru

  87     Temporary Agreement Between Enorian an Archived         Ascendril

  91     Enorian and Ascendril                  Pending          Ascendril

  134    Agreement of Enorian, the Beacon of Li Archived         Templars

  148    Agreement between Enorian, the Beacon  Archived         Ascendril

  149    Agreement of Enorian, the Beacon of Li Archived         Luminaries

  170    Agreement of Enorian, the Beacon of Li Archived         Bahkatu

  193    Agreement of Enorian, the Beacon of Li Archived         Templars

* 197    Enorian\Ascendril Treaty - 380MA       Archived         Ascendril

  205    Agreement between Enorian, the Beacon  Archived         Sentaari

  232    Agreement between Enorian, the Beacon  Active           Daru

  233    Agreement between Enorian, the Beacon  Active           Luminaries

  246    Agreement between Enorian, the Beacon  Active           Ascendril

* 271    Agreement between Enorian, the Beacon  Pending          Luminaries

Ciarelle

It's one sentence. We just want the money thing clarified! That's all, that's really all.

/weeps

Kerryn

Areka said:

There shouldn't be anything TO wrap up. We JUST got new treaties, that combined all of the old ones, and no one's been able to identify yet IG what it is that they want changed. Just need to get the guilds to accept the pending treaties. The bolded ones below are the new ones that the last Council and Lucus got done.

Edit: I suppose for clarification - it isn't just an Ambassadorial thing. Communication's really awful in the city, and some are trying to help fix that, but overall it's a lot of silence, waiting, with assumptive or snarky replies and no actual engaging in anything that could possibly turn into a discussion. 

  12     Enorian and Templars                   Active           Templars

  19     Wartime Agreement of Enorian, the Beac Active           Duiran

  25     An agreement between the Ascendril and Archived         Ascendril

  28     Enorian and Luminaries                 Pending          Luminaries

  36     Donation agreement between Enorian, th Active           Daru

  39     Donation agreement between Enorian, th Active           Luminaries

  41     Enorian\Ascendril Treaty - 381MA       Active           Ascendril

  59     Agreement of Enorian, the Beacon of Li Active           Luminaries

  63     Donation agreement between Enorian, th Archived         Templars

  85     Enorian and Daru                       Pending          Daru

  87     Temporary Agreement Between Enorian an Archived         Ascendril

  91     Enorian and Ascendril                  Pending          Ascendril

  134    Agreement of Enorian, the Beacon of Li Archived         Templars

  148    Agreement between Enorian, the Beacon  Archived         Ascendril

  149    Agreement of Enorian, the Beacon of Li Archived         Luminaries

  170    Agreement of Enorian, the Beacon of Li Archived         Bahkatu

  193    Agreement of Enorian, the Beacon of Li Archived         Templars

* 197    Enorian\Ascendril Treaty - 380MA       Archived         Ascendril

  205    Agreement between Enorian, the Beacon  Archived         Sentaari

  232    Agreement between Enorian, the Beacon  Active           Daru

  233    Agreement between Enorian, the Beacon  Active           Luminaries

  246    Agreement between Enorian, the Beacon  Active           Ascendril

* 271    Agreement between Enorian, the Beacon  Pending          Luminaries

The reason they weren't signed was that Benedicto forgot a clause in the treaties. He was going to have Lucus add it then Lucus disappeared.

Areka

What clause? I got the go-ahead from Bene to sign it with the Templar one. Why is the Council utterly incapable of communicating all of this and making dealing with the city as unpleasant as possible? 

Edit: I mean, it's been how long since Lucus GAVE NOTICE that he had to step down due to RL obligations, that the rotating heralds have been capable but apparently not at the same time, to address it?

Kerryn

Areka said:

What clause? I got the go-ahead from Bene to sign it with the Templar one. Why is the Council utterly incapable of communicating all of this and making dealing with the city as unpleasant as possible? 

Edit: I mean, it's been how long since Lucus GAVE NOTICE that he had to step down due to RL obligations, that the rotating heralds have been capable but apparently not at the same time, to address it?

Yes, Lucus gave plenty of notice before he left, it's not his fault. Then we were without an Ambassador for a while. Then musical Heralds. The ball was dropped countless times. I wont deny that things should have been done differently. However it should be rectified here shortly. So expect something IG in the next day or so regarding the treaties.

The clause Bene forgot to add, was something that allowed the guilds to purchase commodities from the city at a discounted price from the city.

Xavin

I feel like it's been forever since there has been a functional dialog between Enorian and the Ascendril, at the very least. Nine times out of ten when Xavin was guildmaster problems with negotiations were basically stated to be Xavin's fault because he wasn't a member of Enorian. The perpetual bureaucracy and foot-dragging really bothers me.

Sessizlik

I do realize that this has been going on for forever, but Sessi found out yesterday that treaties are her job, so that's the reason I haven't done this earlier.Now I'm just waiting for a thumbs up from one person and I will start contacting all Enorian GM's. I don't want to see this drag on any more than you do, trust me.

Daskalos

A lot of the issues between Enorian and the Ascendril when you were GM, though, was a side affect of Haven vs Duiran and the surrounding drama there. Xavin being GM -and- a leader of Duiran kind of lead to that issue.

Xavin

You're not really helping there. The problems are the exact same now as they were then. It's an issue with how enorian does things and how they treat people.

Roux

Yeah no. Can't really blame the hit and miss (mostly miss) interactions between the Ascendril and Enorian on one person.

Draiman

I hate this fucking game, and cannot believe I just spent fucking money on it again.

Xavin

Roux said:

Yeah no. Can't really blame the hit and miss (mostly miss) interactions between the Ascendril and Enorian on one person.

I'm not blaming it on any one person, and the situation with Haven shouldn't have had any impact on the relations between the Ascendril and Enorian. What I am blaming it on is refusal to listen and some extreme lack of communication as well as the 'my way or the highway' type of attitudes that tend to crop up. I'm not saying that those are problems exclusive to Enorian, but I know I personally felt like there was no working with Enorian when I was gm.

Roux

I wasn't talking to you Xavinpoo.

Sessizlik

Well, this discussion lately has -really- made me -want- to work with treaties. Can you all at least give me a chance to unicorn things up before you continue with it? Much appreciated.

Toz

Dat teaming in the Delosian Duel.

Ramie

They team in arena games here?  )

Toz

I think it's actually the worst part about Aetolia is that arena etiquette is somehow worse than Achaean arena etiquette.

Daskalos

She was saying I was, and I wasn't. My point is that there were a LOT of other tensions going on at the time between Enorian\Duiran. Those issues were resolved, however, and time moved on. That being said, I personally believe a lot of Enorian's problems is the way we (and I say we, because I've been as much a part of the problem as anyone) have legislated our way into a corner. We've stripped power from the CL position to adapt a 'team' approach but the problem is that it adds this -insane- layer of paperwork that means it takes literal RL months to get stuff done.

Personally? I'd start over. Complete fresh slate, and do a hard reset on the city, but I don't know if the leadership is willing to take that risk, or if everyone will be protective of the laws they placed in. ("Oh, we need that, we can't lose this, et cetera").

I dunno, I'm not saying I'm dissatisfied with Enorian as it stands now, but I think (and I think this is widespread across most orgs) that leadership gets tied up in paperwork instead of being 'inspiring leaders'. It's one thing to say 'yea, I voted on X or I wrote this report' and it's another thing to grab the citizens and go 'we're doing something now to build community'.

Daskalos

17.1.8 The Brawl

The Brawl is a free-for-all that is staged approximately once every
two Aetolian years in the Delosian arena.

The event is infamous for its only standing rule being 'kill or be
killed', causing many participating combatants to employ unsavory
tactics such as bribery and betrayal in order to come out on top.
These strategies seem to not only be allowed, but encouraged.

A special mist has been scheduled to be utilized for each Brawl in
order to discourage the prevalence of the large, roaming gangs which
have reigned over the Brawl previously.

The mist makes it difficult for combatants to find their targets in
the chaos of battle. The more combatants in a room, the more likely
anyone is to have their attack redirected into an unintended target.

The victor of the Brawl by any means is named the Delosian Champion
for a two year term and is given the Crown of the Champion for the
duration of their reign, a powerful artifact that grows in potency
over time.

Ezalor

Actually, @Toz, both of us experienced the person running/flying/shielding/whatever after every hit after numerous attempts at a 1v1 from both of us (and from what I heard, another combatant went through it too), @Ilyon simply started hitting whenever they flew and broke shields.

I understand Bloodborn are overwhelming and very hard to fight but don't paint the picture into something it isn't. There was no real teaming, only an effort to stop a strategy that was "make the fight last 2 hours so the vampires run out of blood."

I'm not trying to rage at anyone here for running/playing super defensively, since artifacts and such do indeed overwhelm very quickly and are a problem, but please don't try to turn this around into something it isn't.

Toz

I know, I was watching the entire thing. Meteor arrows to break shield while arti BB goes to town is pretty rough, all things considered - regardless of if it's 'okay' or not, last I was playing Achaea (freely admit things have changed now), if you teamed in the arena you were some sort of social outcast. You greeted them, asked if they were ready, and only then did you really start to fight. It's just an amusing difference, though it is admittedly rage-worthy watching the person you're cheering for have to deal with someone getting help. I mean, imagine the Falcons playing the Dolphins when suddenly in come the Steelers to help.

Ezalor

Believe me, I have experienced enough rage and grief over the Falcons this year.

It's even worse than that year Vick went to jail, cause this year we actually had hope. Also dat Tony Gonzalez .

I understand it can get frustrating, and fighting against Bloodborn in general is definitely frustrating, but a fight ending to willpower/endurance/blood loss is also frustrating.

Ramie

The above post is why I laughed a bit about the idea. I'm not ranting about it or anything, but he has a point. What Toz described is exactly what happens in Achaea, and I guess I came over expecting the same. 

For instance, I joined the FFA and the only person I sparred just walks in and starts beating away, all while I'm trying to smile at her and was attempting to ask if she was ready to begin. It didn't piss me off or anything, but the differences are just going to take some getting used to.

Daskalos

Yea, but none of us survive long enough to actually have that matter :P

Ramie

Especially if you're a newb like me. 

Daskalos

Yea, we all backed off of you and Ciri to let you two duke it out.

Moirean

To be clear, I wasn't running just to grief or be bitchy or get you out of blood (I didn't even know BB could run out of blood, I always imagine you guys wearing like those machine gun bullet bandoliers, filled with vials of blood) - I was in Syssin class, and between weaving and suggestions, I'd be down nearly to 1/3 mana essentially every single round. Syssin can't phase in arena to build up the initial lock, and hypnosis locks really need to last longer - I was mostly just trying to just get a hypno string on you without it dying and me having to start over, and I was only moving a single room away to get a round to sip mana without being hit. 

Syssin is probably like the worst class to play against an arti'd BB because we're squishy and a mana-draining skill is our main way to help deal with that squishiness. That being said, if I didn't have reckless on me for about 75% of the fight, I'd have shielded a lot less - when I can't see my health but my gut says "you're probably in annhi range or 1 hit from death" I move/shield.

I think that brawl kinda killed my interest in 1v1 for a while. Artifacts just make stuff incredibly un-fun. 1-2 hits and I'd be nearly dead and couldn't even attempt a decent offense. That's not enjoyable.