Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE

Daskalos

Toz said:

You can burn past rebounding as Templar and still land the hit/land limb damage that round. Teradrim can burn their sand (instead of using it for offense) to strip shield OR rebounding once every like 15s, otherwise they don't get to hit and have to raze at like 3s.

EDIT: Also Templars have other kill routes open to them. Teradrim seem to be limb or go home - they have stuff that...kind of hints at an affliction offense intent, like swelter. But uh, they can't really do much to capitalize on it. It's like spamming mind crush as monk to drain mana - you can't do anything with it.

The point is, they still have to deal with it as well. Burning past rebounding means they have to deal with rebounding.

Toz

They can deal with rebounding without stopping their offense. Teradrim can do that too...at the cost of a sizable chunk of their pressure.

Daskalos

And if they use a flail, they lose half their attack, which is a pretty sizeable chunk as well. That's my point. I'm not saying Teradrim might not need some help, I'm just saying that Teradrim aren't the only class that has to deal with it.

Illikaal

Teradrim are being given Some thought over time (tm). 

Arbre

Are we pooping joints again?

Natasya

Areka said:

I find combat overwhelming, and it's just a lot to juggle and sort out. The reqs are already towing the line - GR1-GR2 requires being tested on curing '3 random afflictions' - but not any from a list, just 'three random ones', which means you need to learn all of them. This is doubled up again for GR2-GR3, on top of learning everything about every other classes' ents, as well as your golem, and then the PK. I don't know if it's changed or just when I log in, but there's hardly ever anyone else around, and I hate lighting up Haedyn's IM with questions that end up going over my head anyway. 

Then committing to a Path, most of which require being a citizen (to somewhere) and/or partaking in Ylem. It's just becoming really frustrating to where, as much as I like her concept and want to play *her*, I don't want to be logged in on her, and 'just take her to a different guild' means giving up the class unless I can beat my head through a wall to figure this stuff out. 

I know I caught this way later, b/c I haven't had time - but Teradrim are frustrating with all the afk'ing/non-interaction and guys need to quit being so. I didn't struggle with the requirements much myself but finding someone to actuallly give a test (or bother the hell out of @Mephistoles for everything). I think by now I've called everyone lots of rude things in my head OOCly and wondered how da heck they're managing save Macavity

Moirean

Watching my guild slip down the ranks of topguilds day after day. I feel like I'm letting people down.

Macavity

I really do not like it when I, the GM of a Guild, takes the time to promote people up to leadership positions and then each one of them leave one by one shortly after and worse to another Guild!  (of course this was done some time ago) but then you call out to the Guild for others to step up and not a lot of people if any at all writes a message saying they wish to help!  Even when there are past GMs in the Guild still who should know its hard to run a Guild by yourself!  I mean we cant be logged in and doing stuff 24/7 here!!

About Teradrim Combat....currently we have means to strip rebounding with the sand storm, however with this method it means thats the only thing we can do with it and there is/was liaison reports sent up to address this and a few other issues with the class since we do have to deal with rebounding, parrying, pre-restore and such.  I believe this is why impale was put in as it was, and though it seems to annoy the crap out of people to get impaled every few seconds, its about the only way we can get ahead in our build up to get anywhere to kill someone.  Now a days I have gone with damage output in order to kill within my Teradrim class and if I happen to get the setup for an instant kill then I take it, if not I just keep attacking.

Arbre

You're not.  Don't even pay attention to topguilds.  They're not an indication of anything, I've come to the conclusion - I'd rather be in a small guild that has focus, RP, and purpose than a large one that's nothing more than another command for CLT.

Moirean

Maybe, Arbre, but topguilds does reflect direct activity - and I know GWHO has been slowly getting smaller, so I know topguilds is reflecting a gradual decline.

Mephistoles

Macavity said:

About Teradrim Combat....currently we have means to strip rebounding with the sand storm, however with this method it means thats the only thing we can do with it and there is/was liaison reports sent up to address this and a few other issues with the class since we do have to deal with rebounding, parrying, pre-restore and such.  I believe this is why impale was put in as it was, and though it seems to annoy the crap out of people to get impaled every few seconds, its about the only way we can get ahead in our build up to get anywhere to kill someone.  Now a days I have gone with damage output in order to kill within my Teradrim class and if I happen to get the setup for an instant kill then I take it, if not I just keep attacking.

One of the big problems that I have with the class is how hard it is to get a double break using the skills.  Nearly every other limb damage class has a method of breaking two limbs at once, monks and sentaari with tekura, luminaries with their shield crush, and Templar with their trauma and double targeting.  We used to be able to do it just fine with 'elemental' skill that we had, but that got removed in the revamp.  And to make things more frustrating, those classes can all break one limb in two turns.  It takes a minimum of three turns as a teradrim to break any one limb.

Xiuhcoatl

My gripe is the Carnifex class, and it has nothing to do with the recent change. Switched into it to see if the damage was any different, get into a fight with Illidan in the hunting grounds after having to wait 40 minutes for him to unburrow. Contemplate burrowing for 40 minutes just to say LOL I can do it too. Get hit with just a basic loki attack for 23% of my maximum health as cutting damage, on top of that he has passive lightning and the snake hitting me. That's after the glitch stormtouched so I just instantly get stormtouched on the first hit, because lol stormtouch bug. I know my offense was lack luster against his class, but the time it takes for my offense to pick up for a non directed venom pack is the same time it takes for him to kill me with one attack nearly 8 times in a row. With an optimal venom pack to hinder casters, we're saying maybe a few hits can be negated. Would it make a huge difference, not entirely sure. As an Indorani, my cutting defense stands at over 60% making that attack next to useless for damage killing. As a mage my audit for cutting is 55% fully defended 50% without blessing, which is what I am. Both have the same outcome of me not getting autobashed down to 800 life every 30 seconds. I know this is because I don't put any money into tanking artifacts, but holy unicorns batman. This class is like a balloon, get a big enough needle and watch it POOF. Vampires can bash us to death, mages can bash us to death, it's hard to list classes that don't just outright kill Carnifex through sheer damage as a dexterous carnifex. 

So to sum it up, the class has no armor besides actual armor. If you want extra resistances you're giving up damage, and you still only get 10% extra of ONE category physical/magical, which is the only way the class will actually kill people just based on design. If you're fighting someone with multiple forms of damage that are even for the amount of pressure they can put across them, you're boned. Alternatively you rip out your offense and slow it down by almost almost half in order to hopefully not get bashed to death. When a statpack's tankiness is almost required for a class, I get a foul taste in my mouth. I don't rike it. I don't rike it at all. When sitting at like 40% of your maximum life as a normal health point to fight, ehhh not so big on that. Nice to sit in the green, instead of boarding red.  

Mastema

I tend to agree the class is squishy as dex. I know I get crushed with damage in seconds, as my audit is just rubbish unless I go powerful, and its meh for afflicting. I do not even think it would take a lot more cutting/blunt to fix it up either.

Illikaal

Xiuhcoatl said:

My gripe is the Carnifex class, and it has nothing to do with the recent change. Switched into it to see if the damage was any different, get into a fight with Illidan in the hunting grounds after having to wait 40 minutes for him to unburrow. Contemplate burrowing for 40 minutes just to say LOL I can do it too. Get hit with just a basic loki attack for 23% of my maximum health as cutting damage, on top of that he has passive lightning and the snake hitting me. That's after the glitch stormtouched so I just instantly get stormtouched on the first hit, because lol stormtouch bug. I know my offense was lack luster against his class, but the time it takes for my offense to pick up for a non directed venom pack is the same time it takes for him to kill me with one attack nearly 8 times in a row. With an optimal venom pack to hinder casters, we're saying maybe a few hits can be negated. Would it make a huge difference, not entirely sure. As an Indorani, my cutting defense stands at over 60% making that attack next to useless for damage killing. As a mage my audit for cutting is 55% fully defended 50% without blessing, which is what I am. Both have the same outcome of me not getting autobashed down to 800 life every 30 seconds. I know this is because I don't put any money into tanking artifacts, but holy unicorns batman. This class is like a balloon, get a big enough needle and watch it POOF. Vampires can bash us to death, mages can bash us to death, it's hard to list classes that don't just outright kill Carnifex through sheer damage as a dexterous carnifex. 

So to sum it up, the class has no armor besides actual armor. If you want extra resistances you're giving up damage, and you still only get 10% extra of ONE category physical/magical, which is the only way the class will actually kill people just based on design. If you're fighting someone with multiple forms of damage that are even for the amount of pressure they can put across them, you're boned. Alternatively you rip out your offense and slow it down by almost almost half in order to hopefully not get bashed to death. When a statpack's tankiness is almost required for a class, I get a foul taste in my mouth. I don't rike it. I don't rike it at all. When sitting at like 40% of your maximum life as a normal health point to fight, ehhh not so big on that. Nice to sit in the green, instead of boarding red.  

Except, you didn't die to damage. You seemed to handle it all just fine. 

You're also getting a dose of your own medicine, since you're always so keen on galloping/sprinting/leaping away inside the HG and refusing to fight. I should have stayed in there even longer, because I had unicorns-all to do. Maybe now you'll be a little more respectful of people's time, hmm?

Alexina

Acting in a rude, disrespectful manner and then saying 'you did it first don't do it again' will just start a vicious cycle that will end up detrimental to the game.

Xavin

While I agree that it's not really good behavior to engage in and probably a detriment to the game...I do find it ironic that someone is complaining about something they themselves are guilty of.

Illikaal

Alexina said:

Acting in a rude, disrespectful manner and then saying 'you did it first don't do it again' will just start a vicious cycle that will end up detrimental to the game.

Sorry sir, but you missed the point. I did intentionally, because as I said, Xiuhcoatl is notorious to doing it to everyone, including myself. His excuse was "I do it because I can." Therefore, I showed him exactly how stupid and annoying "doing things because you can" can be. It apparently annoyed him enough to a point where he decided to rage about it, which means my job was successfully executed. He needs to learn to be respectful of other people's time, especially in a place such as the HG. Nobody wants to be stuck in there all day because one person refuses to fight the other because they're too incompetent, or they're doing it just to be a dick. 

You goan learn today. 

Valenae

So, abandoning the fact that we're not supposed to answer rages because apparently that's something the mods only break out when there's something they do not want to read- 

Illidan, I find it laughable that you want to teach someone about how wrong it is to do something 'you want because you can'. How does that make any sense? You're the one that went around killing citizens in your city because you knew that you're a combatant and could get away with more than the average citizen so repeating a similar behavior of Xiuhchoatl's because 'lol bitch, you need to learn your lesson' is just you picking another target since you're infamous for the exact same concept. If you wanted things to be different/better then you'd lead by example instead of making yourself out to be some lolangelofjustice. 

Illikaal

You really just can't get over me killing you in Enorian, can you? This is what, the 6th time you've brought this same incident up? Talk about a hardon, sheesh. 

Atrapoema

Some players do not learn from/follow examples, and their actions are just insignificant enough not to warrant administrative intervention. These players usually require having their faces put in the dirt repeatedly by other, self-policing players for anything to sink in. Illidan can attest to that fact, I believe.

Valenae

Illidan said:

You really just can't get over me killing you in Enorian, can you? 

You didn't kill me? You afflicted me? You killed two other people, heh. That's not the point, though - the point is that due to your numerous past indiscretions you are not in the position to correct anyone's behavior. You're proving that in the way you're currently treating Xiuh. Alexina is right, instead of making any kind of change and swaying the community you're just coming off as a bully.  

Illikaal

Valenae said:

Illidan said:

You really just can't get over me killing you in Enorian, can you? 

You didn't kill me? You afflicted me? You killed two other people, heh. That's not the point, though - the point is that due to your numerous past indiscretions you are not in the position to correct anyone's behavior. You're proving that in the way you're currently treating Xiuh. Alexina is right, instead of making any kind of change and swaying the community you're just coming off as a bully.  

Except, you keep on confusing skirting the IC laws of a city with the OOC rules of PK. You could start to learn how to differentiate between the two. 

Surprise. Even if it was just afflicting, and it happened more than 2 years ago, you're still not over it. Lewl. 

Nola

Well. At this point, I hope you know what I'm about to say.

I'll say it anyway.

Get on with yourselves and leave it be. 

Valenae

Illidan said:

Valenae said:

Illidan said:

You really just can't get over me killing you in Enorian, can you? 

You didn't kill me? You afflicted me? You killed two other people, heh. That's not the point, though - the point is that due to your numerous past indiscretions you are not in the position to correct anyone's behavior. You're proving that in the way you're currently treating Xiuh. Alexina is right, instead of making any kind of change and swaying the community you're just coming off as a bully.  

Except, you keep on confusing skirting the IC laws of a city with the OOC rules of PK. You could start to learn how to differentiate between the two. 

Surprise. Even if it was just afflicting, and it happened more than 2 years ago, you're still not over it. Lewl. 

I'm trying to decide whether or not you're just confused and are not retaining my points if you are intentionally deflecting them. My guess is that its a mix of both - what you understand you are attempting to deflect. 

Now, the point Atra is making is that people with Xiuh's reputation as well as Illidan's need to be self-policed by other players because they don't follow examples and their actions are too insignificant for the administration to deal with. While I make no attempt to deny those people exist and that Illidan surely is one of them, I disagree with the idea that administration view actions of abuse and harassment as below their threshold. I disagree for two reasons: there is a system to report abuse to prevent the cycle Alexina mentioned in her post which means the issue is reportable. I'm more relating this to the example I provided regarding Illidan. Atra's example that Illidan had to solely encounter the punishment of other players to shape-up is false since he had several run-ins with administration that led to him having 'vacations' from the game. Arguably the intervention of administration greatly impacted Illidan's behavior in the game and obviously the 'little matters' of abuse and harassment I mentioned are of importance to administration so that point doesn't make any sense. Edit: If you are commenting on the issues that are not reportable, that will be addressed below. 

The point I've made is that Illidan is not in the place to 'self-police' because he has so damaged his reputation that when he makes any step at all his reputation will follow him and any attempt to self-police will largely come off as Illidan playing the part of the destructive, irrational bully (much like what's going on in this thread i.e. Xiuh's analysis and Alexina's reaction) then having any sort of admirable, moral grounding. This observation coupled with Illidan's frequent antagonistic communication style (kind of like what's being shown, you know, now...) makes the situation more of Illidan finding a target then it is Illidan self-policing. So while I agree that self-policing in the issues that are not reportable is, to some extent, beneficial, I disagree that this is an example of a productive self-policing.   

tl;dr: The administration does care about the kinds of behavior I specified in my early posts and to say those are insignificant is silly and when two people who commit similar acts of behavior, have similar reputations and a terribad dynamic attempt to self-police, self-policing does not occur, only glorified pissing matches. 

Emelle

No, srsly. Stop it.

Nola

This is not a thread for debate. Move.On. 

Or, you know, wait for a Mod to come in here and tell you THE SAME THING, just with prettier colors. 

Valenae

I think I will since, you know, you're not a mod. 

Valenae

Stating that someone is not a mod and therefore does not have a right to mod me is abuse? Wat. 

Zarni

Really, I think a lot could be solved if toeing the line was just as punishable as going over it. Over the past decade I've been playing IRE games, I've seen it a lot of times where people will intentionally do everything in their power to be a unicorn but juuuust stay short of the part where it would become clear-cut harassment or abuse or griefing, and it is still wrong. People going out of their way to be total jerks to someone else because they wanna troll them or do that time-honored playground ritual of "but he/she did it first!" are all just...wrong. I mean, sure, you feel good about yourself, but you haven't made any positive change at all and you've just perpetuated the entire cycle of behavior. Good job, you are now literally as bad as the person that you felt was bad enough for you to be a jerk to. Clap, clap, clap.

So, who's gonna step up? Or are we all gonna be playing textual happy slaps on a forum thread and bandwagoning because lol drama?

Haven

Alright. Had to read up on everything first before I can formulate an opinion.

The Aetolian rage thread was created for the sole purpose of venting your personal frustrations in regards to the game, no matter how asinine your complaint may or may not be. What's happened, however, is that the rages get judged by the community when we read them... Sometimes we rally to stand behind someone on an issue. Sometimes we try to get the rager to see reason or the other side of the complaint or just see things in a different light for a better understanding of things.

And then other times... People get down right disrespectful about other people's rages like they have no right whatsoever to share their opinion on something and the thread gradually becomes a breeding ground for people to demean each other and just pick fights. I see nothing wrong with commenting on other people's rages and expressing your own opinion so long as you remain respectful and do not break any of the forum rules in the process. After all, these rages are a matter of opinion.

As for what's happened here... I am going to have to ask you all to move on from the issue. The discussion, if you can even call it that, has ran its course.