Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE

Daskalos

I remember when we -didn't- have them. Yes, the entire time you've played IRE they've been here, but to say they were -designed- for this use is a bit far fetching. Originally, they were put in as a way to reward the org leaders (they went into the org leaders personal supply, NOT a guild\city account) for the work they do. Then, GM\CL's requested a way to differentiate the two so they could pass them on to the next person. And, as Oleis said, on other games it's perfectly acceptable to use them for personal use.

If you wanted to take every org credit, and use it for yourself, that is perfectly OK and not against the rules. Your -org- might not like it, but that's an  RP situation, not an admin situation.

Moirean

I don't think it's a RP situation at all - using org credits for yourself would not only be viewed as basically theft because of how long org credits have existed and how entrenched the idea is, it would also mean that you're screwing your own org by forsaking the solid and established way to reward members. It's a bit unfair to pretend that we have these credits at our personal disposal, since actually using them on ourselves would hurt both our org and our character's reputation. Player leaders already get criticized if their org credit levels drop low as-is, and that's without the leaders spending them for personal use.

Xavin

He's sort of right, though, Moi. The use of org credits has pretty much been left up to the org leader, be it as a reward, something to sell (which is most common), to give to their buddies/themselves or help to buy artifacts that might help the org as a whole.

Daskalos

For years, both Bloodloch and Enorian's CL's used the credits on themselves... Enorian changed it when I became Vanguard and I said I wouldn't take any for me. Don't know when Loch changed it. I remember Iereas getting a reflection wand for 800 city credits.

Aishia

I don't know, I think personally they should be used for the org/sold in credit sales primarily, but I also think at the core it does have more to do with the guild culture and people leaning on the leader in general. It's one thing to steal them all, and another to use a few here and there for reasonable uses.But personally if I see a GM take a huge chunk of credits for no real reason other than personal use, or for their friends, it's sort of like, "wow, what can we do to get rid of this person."

Aishia

I kinda think a guild where the GM can just take all the credits and no one gets upset probably has big problems with apathy. >_>

Xavin

No one is advocating that an orgleader just take them. Just pointing out there's not really an intended or required use for them

Nalor

I Rage at the Order wars!! AND being too late to join!

Rowena

On the availability of in - game credits - 

Some people might love the game and that's the only way they can advance and it's bloody hard work for getting the most out of a "free," game. 

Like, I don't care, I'm happy to support the company and I like all the toys I buy or I wouldn't buy them. Not everyone is in my situation though and can. 

Areka

Grump grump super fast ranged attacks that don't have to be line of sight that you can't really do anything about except turtle. WHAT DO I DO WITH YOU, I AM BAFFLED.

Moirean

Touch shield.

Edit: Not trying to be snarky, am being serious. Most of those locations are indoors, so unless they send in a phase hound, they can't break the shield at ranged as Indorani since star only works outdoors. Also, you guys have a Luminary so the ents should be able to be banished super fast.

Areka

That's...that's the turtling. I believe that's the correct term for touching shield a lot, yes. 

Daskalos

I believe THIS is what she's talking about: LOOK AT THE TIME STAMPS ON THAT

<8421/8421h 6725/6725m 32205e 28688w <eb> <sdb>> <LC:0 RC:0 ||100|100|23.94%> <23:30:56:397>
A sand daemon in the likeness of Feichin rises out of the sand, ready to strike.
Sand coalesces before Feichin into the form of a blade, and with an indifferent snap of the fingers, he sends it to slice Dhagon's rebounding defence.
<8421/8421h 6725/6725m 32205e 28688w <eb> <sdb>> <LC:0 RC:0 ||100|100|23.94%> <23:30:57:319>
A sand daemon in the likeness of Feichin rises out of the sand, ready to strike.
Sand coalesces before Feichin into the form of a blade, and with an indifferent snap of the fingers, he sends it to slice Dhagon's shielded defence.
<8421/8421h 6725/6725m 32205e 28688w <eb> <sdb>> <LC:0 RC:0 ||100|100|23.94%> <23:30:57:444>
Dhagon takes a long drag off his pipe filled with skullcap.
<8421/8421h 6725/6725m 32205e 28688w <eb> <sdb>> <LC:0 RC:0 ||100|100|23.94%> <23:30:57:537>
Phendegwen mutters words of defilement under his breath.
<8421/8421h 6725/6725m 32205e 28676w <eb> <sdb>> <LC:0 RC:0 ||100|100|23.94%> <23:30:58:647>
A guardian angel surrounds Dhagon with a protective shield.
<8421/8421h 6725/6725m 32205e 28676w <eb> <sdb>> <LC:0 RC:0 ||100|100|23.94%> <23:30:59:100> give mana to dhagon
You give a sleek wooden vial to Dhagon.
<8421/8421h 6725/6725m 32205e 28676w <eb> <sdb>> <LC:0 RC:0 ||100|100|23.94%> <23:30:59:491> give mana to dhagon
You give a sleek wooden vial to Dhagon.
<8421/8421h 6725/6725m 32205e 28676w <eb> <sdb>> <LC:0 RC:0 ||100|100|23.94%> <23:30:59:662>
Dhagon takes a drink from a sleek wooden vial.
<8421/8421h 6725/6725m 32190e 28676w <eb> <sdb>> <LC:0 RC:0 ||100|100|23.94%> <23:31:00:725>
A sand daemon in the likeness of Feichin rises out of the sand, ready to strike.
Sand coalesces before Feichin into the form of a blade, and with an indifferent snap of the fingers, he sends it to slice Dhagon's shielded defence.
<8421/8421h 6725/6725m 32205e 28724w <eb> <sdb>> <LC:0 RC:0 ||100|100|23.94%> <23:31:01:616>
A sand daemon in the likeness of Feichin rises out of the sand, ready to strike.
Sand coalesces before Feichin into the form of a blade, and with an indifferent snap of the fingers, he sends it to slice Dhagon's fitness defence.
<8421/8421h 6725/6725m 32205e 28724w <eb> <sdb>> <LC:0 RC:0 ||100|100|23.94%> <23:31:01:819>
Dhagon eats some irid moss.

Moirean

Well, if I were in the lifer's shoes, I'd be playing as Lumi and be using firewall + rites to break up their team at a distance and lock down the entrance to the area. Vibes in multiple rooms, especially creeps + retardation, is another great way to break up an incoming team, as well as selectively enemied Sentinel traps. You can leave a Lumi guarding the person praying (angel can shield them) with banishment down, and have the rest of your team roaming after the BL group in a pack as well to help ensure they can't just happily sit there ranging you guys.

Daskalos

You assume our tiny ass order has all these people. You realize we declared on an order around our same size, right? We didn't go declare on, say, Severn. That is -4- defense strips in half a second. I just don't even know how to begin there. Maybe @Oleis or @Valdus can look at it, because that just seems incredibly broke to me, considering the range defense strip on the life side, Mind Strip, requires both a mindlock (easily broken) and is on like 2 seconds eq (maybe longer)

Moirean

Regarding ranged double sand slice - we've discussed it briefly on LT and several of us mentioned that it seemed like an oversight. Frustratingly, Teradrim and Shamans both basically require you having the counter class to stop them from doing their worst. Not a big fan of that design, since you either don't have one and can't do anything to counter the stuff, or there's a counter class there and you have to sit in a tug of war just to use your skills.

Daskalos

It's not even that it's double... that's 4 slices in 4 seconds.... with no defense whatsoever (other than a Shaman). Building class based counters where the ONLY counter is another class and you put one class in the biggest org and another in one of the smallest... just kind of me, to me.

Xiuhcoatl

I rage that I pulled out of a perfectly good triple kill. I really need to stop pulling out. 

Ashmer

#Neverpullout

Aarbrok

#Thatshowbabiesaremade

Veovis

Org credits were a relative novelty when they were introduced. Guilds definitely weren't designed around them. Guilds and cities biggest benefit has always been socialization and, for guilds, skills.

You shouldn't *need * credits to encourage activity. There's also nothing wrong with an org leader keeping some credits. When I initially wrote the Bloodborn laws I allowed the GM to keep 25% as a salary and 25% to give to worthy members.

Daskalos

Holy Wars need a terrible redesign, because even when they're RP'd for a reason... they're about who can grind the most, plus you've got alts that haven't showed up in FOREVER suddenly playing and helping. We declared on an order bigger than us, knowingly, and you guys still brought in backup? That's my rage, people digging out alts just to play, and then ACTIVE alts in OUR congregation saying 'sorry, I have too many friends in Loch on my main, so I won't login during this'.

Really? That's your idea of RP? REALLY? Just quit playing the character if you're not going to play him all the way! 

Aymah

I know it's been mentioned, and I know I've complained about it before elsewhere, but I am seriously, seriously annoyed at the whole cryptic chest thing. It feels like a severely lacking promotion has been fixed on the go and, apparently, I have the worst timing, because I bought chests twice, and both times about two days before the whole "we're changing/adding things to chests for a little something more" posts.

And now I bought some chests in game and they actually have more stuff. Decent at last, at least to me, but I missed out on 40+ chests before this.

I am at the point where I feel cheated by the promotion.

*rageragerage*

Rowena

I'm a little bit annoyed at that as well with the chests but at the same time I've broke bank pretty big with them. They're been more than worth it for me either because I'm lucky or because the artifacts you get make them break more than even in bulk 

Daskalos

At least you didn't buy a few hundred like Rashar and I and then they get changed.

Moirean

Regarding org credits - I've been criticized for even giving myself credits for normal rewards like ylem payouts and org credit sales, so there definitely is a view among players that org leaders shouldn't be using the credits.

Piper

I remember having to jump through hoops to justify every time I withdrew credits when I was an orgleader. I remember Latharn once pulling out credits to buy himself a flag and having a log of people getting ticked with him. It's not very commonly well thought for leaders to withdraw without any checks.

Areka

There's views among players for everything. I've used (with sec approval) org credits to help fund trade skills and things (which then went to supplying the guild shop) and no one had any issues, or at least cared enough to voice them. 

The lack of cr income right now is a bummer, but also have to be smart with org credits and recognize that they are, to an extent, a finite resource. 

Then again, I just set thresholds for when to open or close credit sales and toss them out from time to time to non-favourable people (since we don't favour folk for work until after knighthood, though keep a running list of who is owed stuff). 

Rowena

Still grieving over the artifact customization queues. No room for comment over nitpicking, lots of problems that are not wrong, per - se but just down to personal taste. Resubmissions within thirty minutes (after spending long enough making the changes correctly) and then getting no further response for another three or four days at least. 

I feel like you need an English major just to customize something and even then, it needs to be in the prose with the sentence structure the person doing the audit likes. It's a very frustrating experience. 

Veovis

Rowena said:

I feel like you need an English major just to customize something and even then, it needs to be in the prose with the sentence structure the person doing the audit likes. It's a very frustrating experience. 

It makes the mortal crafting queue look easy by comparison. Spend hundreds of dollars on this small benefit.Oh. You want to customize it? I hope you write prose like Nabokov. Honestly, if I'm going to spend money on something, and then spend even more to customize it, the item should have the prose style and sentence structure I prefer, excepting typos.