Mildly Irritating: Aetolia's Pet Peeves

Nipsy

Kurak said:

Carbon copy excessive alting. I get very annoyed with rude carbon copy alts constantly demanding my time. It is annoying on many levels. Any time investment you place on them will be gone in a week and often it is the same help being demanded over and over.

It would be different if they joined different orgs, and didn't act like complete arse-holes to the same players....on what is this, round 9.
Just keep your cool, stay IC, and eventually they faff off for four weeks before returning again. (EDIT: Removed the last part because I think that is against the rules)

Elene

I low-key dislike it when people write on public posts picking on people who would rather choose to hunt rather than joining a fight. You really gonna shame people for making the personal choice in trying to pursue level 200 by making them feel like they're obligated to entertain you at a foci fight? That's some attitude and low hanging fruit you're batting at, man.

Aeryx

Elene said:

I low-key dislike it when people write on public posts picking on people who would rather choose to hunt rather than joining a fight. You really gonna shame people for making the personal choice in trying to pursue level 200 by making them feel like they're obligated to entertain you at a foci fight? That's some attitude and low hanging fruit you're batting at, man.

1.) It's also pretty shameless to in turn try to pick a fight on the forums, instead of treating this like an in character action, which is what it was.

2.) Whirran made a public post, again in character, and public posts are allowed to have characters respond to them with their own public posts. That's why they're public. Characters write on public posts, not people.

3.) 'You' really gonna shame people...again, my character is shaming people for when they want to make decrees and threats while they have in no way actually shown to be capable of backing up those things.


In character choices have consequences. 'Playing a bad guy' does not preclude the character from consequences. I recommend if you all have an issue with what I posted on public as my character, then you know, you can like, respond back on public, or in tells, or anything else, inside of Aetolia. Making a forum post about 'you' and 'people' for something I did inside of Aetolia is pretty gross, and if I'm honest, borderline hypocritical given the complaints you and Whirran have both had in recent times.

Akrios

Is it really "low-key" when you come to the forums to post about your dislike of it?

Elene

Yeah, it's low-key because this is probably the only and last time I will vent about it. If it rocks your jollies because I'm venting about the attitude - and you probably see it as me trying to pick a fight on forums - well, you do you!

Jezreth

I think it's a valid complaint because if you're going for 200, you can't really participate in pvp without wasting ooc $. And having that called out ic just feels.. bad. Don't think you did anything wrong Aeryx but if someone said that line about bashing to me, I'd probably be a little annoyed as a player too.

Rihrin

I've had enough people get on my case in-game for not giving them enough time/attention because I wanted to get to 200. People have been absolute jerks with no attempts to understand or work around it. So frankly, I don't really think anyone should be called out for how they enjoy the game. They should be allowed to play the game, within reason of not ruining it for others, and be able to skip that part. People should try to respect things a little better and be more understanding.

However, I'll chime in with a related annoyance: people who PK others going for 200 and then shout about how they are preventing that person from getting to 200/etc to showboat it around. I will acknowledge that yes, in this example, it was perfectly acceptable as far as where and why the PK happened. However, the shouting of deliberately trying to prevent someone from getting 200? Come on now. Poor form. That's just asking for people to start preventing the offender from getting to 200 and treating that individual worse. It, contextually, ends up driving some of those attitudes/tensions that are frustrating for anyone to have to deal with.

Tetchta

Dunking on someone for bashing feels very meta to me. Bashing as a whole is a very game-y activity, and it seems like a couple hairs away from writing about someone's "reflexes" or how much money they've spent on artifacts ICly. It's just kinda silly and borders on immersion breaking for me, especially when you consider it within the IC framing, where all of our characters are casual mass murderers.

Alela

Tetchta said:

immersion breaking

sometimes i feel like i'm being controlled by an unseen entity from outside our world...

Ayastia

> @Tetchta said:
> Dunking on someone for bashing feels very meta to me. Bashing as a whole is a very game-y activity, and it seems like a couple hairs away from writing about someone's "reflexes" or how much money they've spent on artifacts ICly. It's just kinda silly and borders on immersion breaking for me, especially when you consider it within the IC framing, where all of our characters are casual mass murderers.

This really brings up a pet peeve of mine: Other than fishing, there is no real way to level up outside of PvE. Questing does not provide enough XP to be worthwhile. I really wish there were other options than, as you said, being casual mass murderers

Teani

The shout regarding people being more focused on hunting did not feel directed only towards one individual, but all followers of Bamathis/Shadow tether. In essence, despite not even speaking up or being involved in any of the recent happenings, news posts or ongoing religious rp, it felt like my bashing character got targeted. It really felt like poor form to bring that up in that way.

I also second what Rihrin wrote, because that made me really angry when I heard about it. Shouting about actively preventing someone from reaching level 200 is a unicorn move. Just don't.

Sryaen

I think there's a big difference between a fanatical character making a post essentially claiming PK on anyone who trashes Varian versus your average Shadow/Bama person making the push to 200. Man, who knew Aetolians got so testy when it came to their PVE? With the current setup for how things are in terms of consumable buffs, that's really up to the players themselves to weigh the options between getting involved in IC conflict that takes away from the goal of 200, or choosing to let it slide and fight another day.

Being a villain with the intention of making other players miserable (openly stating you're trying to prevent them from getting to 200?) isn't being a villain. That's just being an asshole.

MY pet peeve is on the similar vein - in that bashing to 200 sounds miserable. If you want to maximize your $$$ investment to get the most out of your chocolates/chalices/knives/etc, you essentially need to focus entirely on bashing and distance yourself from any sort of RP that may take up precious time. Hot take, but I think it's a terrible thing to encourage people to push RP to the back burner and have them play a single-player PVE game for a bit, reward them with some RP event tailored to them and then they can continue playing the multiplayer version of Aetolia.

Would love to see the option available to pause consumables so people aren't forced to choose. Hell, put a cooldown on it so people can't just toggle it on/off all willy nilly. CONSUMABLES PAUSE [buff type], and it'll say something like "By doing this, you will be unable to resume being under the effects of this consumable for a minimum of 30 MINUTES" or something.

Xavin

It's really hard to have sympathy for someone getting themself entangled in PK when they are trying to bash to 200 through their own actions, especially when that person, as Sryaen said, shouted about making it their goal to prevent someone else from ever getting 200.

Double standards lol

Galilei

Has said person been known for taunts after breaking a 200 bash slog with pk, or is this a one time thing we're going on about?

Elene

I don't think anyone expected sympathy, least of all Whirran. He knows what he's doing. I'm not here to be a white knight for him. He can hold his own, and I can hold mine. The pet peeve was from me, because of a perceived attitude that borders a little on IC/OOC justifications.

EDIT: I should specify that my irate-ness is also directly contributed by the fact that I am wasting the money that I used to buy chalices, knowing that I have rarely been able to use them to 2/3rds value.

Whirran

Hey there, I'll keep this short. (Yes I mean it this time.)

1: omg people are talking about me when I'm not even here, I'm so popular! I will be accepting expressions of adoration through donations of grimstim pills, chocolates, phoenix hearts, but not your firstborn. No firstborns please.

2: On a more serious note, I've said it here so many times now I don't know how else to say it really. Whirran is a jerk. A complete and utter fanatic and a jerk. He's vindictive, underhanded, rude, all these things to people he doesn't respect. That's the character I've made. Lots of you don't like that or don't seem equipped to deal with that and assume it's malicious or personal. It's not. Maybe you think I'm not playing a villain how a villain should be played. But it's my character to play, not yours. Plenty of people, on both tethers, who give Whirran a chance and rp with me enjoy our interactions quite a bit, and have gotten to see beneath the exterior personality of the character. Other people put me on ignore just because I shout in character things they don't like. If you're not equipped to handle a character personality that you dislike, you do you. I'm going to keep playing the character I find compelling. That's the way it is.

3: To address the most recent example of this, I'll give some context. I killed Isia in vortex. She shouted that it didn't matter and I didn't accomplish anything. I retorted that I absolutely did, since the goal was to kill her and stunt her progress towards her goal, which is 200. That is her goal which she said Whirran had no impact on. Factually, that's just incorrect. His goal was to sabotage her because he doesn't respect her and she's an enemy and he wants to sabotage the things she strives for. I shouted all of this entirely in character, for everyone to hear, because again. It's not a secret that in character Whirran is a jerk. These motivations are not OOC driven hate. These are plain, obvious in character motivations, in response to her in character taunts and stated in character goals. The idea that it's somehow rude of me to say I want to sabotage her in character stated goal is absurd. Be offended on her behalf if you like but at least get the facts right.

4: As a final note, I'll mention here that I sling my mud and take my lumps in character. Considering how many issue threats I get or how many times I'm mentioned here for essentially the same complaints, I really wish folks would do the same.

Thanks.

Sessizlik

I think what people might be reacting to is that you, @Whirran, admitted to going after someone who is working hard towards a very tedious goal, only to sabotage for them and put them back a bit further from said goal. Something that takes a really really long time, a lot of funds both icly and oocly, and a lot of focus. Knowing they are doing this and choosing to actively go after them is a unicorn move. I understand it is all done icly, but sometimes.... sometimes it's a good thing to break character, you know? Just my two scents. I'm glad I am not going for 200. Yet..

Sryaen

Ah, the good ol' "bro it's just my RP, bro" argument to justify awful behavior. I think if you're playing a villain (or any sort of major character in the game now that I think about it) you have perhaps more of a responsibility to add more to the game, rather than just exist to antagonize others. But yeah, sure, let's uh call it playing a "compelling" character, I guess.

Galilei

The way I see it, if we take this any further, we'll be arguing whether initiating pk on 200 bashers should be howled out of the game or not. That he killed Isia in vortex is a fact; that he added to it with assholish IC shouts is an addon and has no bearing in OOC convo unless you assume his player is also an asshole.

So is going after a 200 basher in pk free zones valid?

Sryaen

Galilei said:

So is going after a 200 basher in pk free zones valid?

This wasn't ever the argument. We're all fine with open PK happening in their respective zones. You go to an open PK zone, be fully prepared to deal with the consequences.

Galilei

So why are we talking about Whirran's shout? It's up to him what he SAYS; damage he already did to her progress with his pk. If anything, if issues are to be made, it's with the pk, isn't it?

Sryaen

Rihrin said:

However, I'll chime in with a related annoyance: people who PK others going for 200 and then shout about how they are preventing that person from getting to 200/etc to showboat it around. I will acknowledge that yes, in this example, it was perfectly acceptable as far as where and why the PK happened. However, the shouting of deliberately trying to prevent someone from getting 200? Come on now. Poor form. That's just asking for people to start preventing the offender from getting to 200 and treating that individual worse. It, contextually, ends up driving some of those attitudes/tensions that are frustrating for anyone to have to deal with.

This is why the shout was brought up. Seems pretty clear why people have issues with that type of behavior.

Elene

Sryaen said:

Ah, the good ol' "bro it's just my RP, bro" argument to justify awful behavior. I think if you're playing a villain (or any sort of major character in the game now that I think about it) you have perhaps more of a responsibility to add more to the game, rather than just exist to antagonize others. But yeah, sure, let's uh call it playing a "compelling" character, I guess.

I can agree with this perception of yours and personally think that everyone, not just people playing villains, have a responsibility to the game. It goes back to sportsmanship - and I believe that we are painfully lacking in this in Aetolia.

It's especially evident when competition is fielded in the game. Everyone on both sides are rushing to validate their actions as in-character motivations when they're just down for "doing anything it takes to win". Even if you don't think we should adopt sportsmanship when we play the game, I think we all fall into the same mistake of believing ourselves familiar with the motivations of how someone else plays their character, so we act like backseat drivers when their actions deviate from our box of "how they should act". It's a very hard mindset to pull ourselves out of.

Galilei

While I honestly think not quite as much noise would have been made here were it not a relatively big-name character, from either side, doing this, I don't have a real horse in this race; what even characters like Whirran ought or ought not to say while taunting I don't have too much to add on right now, either. Thanks for the clarification anyways.

Czcienn

Tbph if we go back to the original post that started this discussion, I honestly don't see anything in Aeryx's post that is OOC targeted specifically at Whirran for avoiding fights. I read it as a general condemnation of Shadow for not showing up to fights recently, which was a perfectly fine IC response to what was an equally inflammatory post by Whirran. Honestly in this case I think it could have been easily handled in game.

As for the larger problem of pking and the level 200 grind, I still think it's just a problem of the unreasonably unequal "consequences" of pk and death between higher and lower levelled people. It definitely affects how I roleplay, because I'm honestly not going to take the bold RP stances that Whirran takes because I'm personally not ready to accept the level and frequency of consequences.

Iesid

Hot take, but I don't think Whirran's behavior is reprehensible. That's probably not surprising coming from someone else who plays an asshole character, though. It's completely In Character and people should stop assuming malice just because a character's actions are disreputable or disrespectful. It is ridiculous how many arbitrary expectations people are projecting here. Nobody is entitled to a peaceful bashing experience if they do things that create PK cause or stand in places that create that cause.

To use this latest example that folk are kicking around: Isia knew what she was doing. She doesn't have a right to bash in the Vortex without being PKed. The rules don't have a footnote that says 'except for Isia'. It's nobody's fault but her own that she is using an Open PK zone to grind to 200 in the last few levels that represent the most significant part of the grind - and, as it would so happen, allow for the highest losses. That's her fault.

We all seem to agree on the above paragraph, based on post history in this thread, which means what this is really about is what Whirran shouted. I don't think he shouted anything over the line. He hit a character where it hurts. Maybe that character will think better of crossing him next time. He didn't need a reason beyond 'Isia is in Vortex' - but he sure as hell outlined one to the entire world and that is villain shit. It's more roleplay than we often see surrounding our PK and he added it as an optional special sauce. Going to the forums and decrying him for taking an extra step to make the game more atmospheric/IC seems like a weird plan, to be frank.

I also feel there is a difference between politeness and sportsmanship. If you can't handle an antagonist getting loud and saying antagonist things, maybe this game isn't for you? I think anybody decrying him in this thread is trying to enforce boring politeness, not nuanced sportsmanship - and that is my pet peeve.

Edit: Got rid of this oversized smile emoji. because it was messing with line spacing.

Kurak

The 200 grind is dumb and foci are dumb. Even if Shadow had the numbers or will to do it. Foci are an uninspired replacement for creating an environment that spurs organic world pk and another symptom of the over mmo-ification of the game.

Lin

I feel like establishing a good, healthy IC/OOC separation used to be so common in Aetolia that everyone took it for granted - this thread, as of late, really suggests we ought to bring back the practice.

Tetchta

I'm Commander Shepard, and this is the worst conversation on the Citadel. I don't even really know where to start other than to echo Lin here and say that there's a massive amount of work I think people should be doing (that they aren't doing) to at least try to have some IC/OOC separation. Look, nobody's expecting perfection on that front, but sweet mother of Varo, I swear that some of y'all ain't even trying.

I also have to say that it seems like some of y'all are intentionally being petulant and unproductive. We all gotta swim in this pool, can you put in an effort to not take a massive dump in the water when folk are posting in good faith?

Kurak

New Pet peeve: Someone off-topicing my previous pet peeve in a channel for pet peeves.