Exterminations

Rashar

And most times, guards handle bad guys that roll into the city to cause mischief. Doesn't mean people aren't expected to respond or feeling pressured to. Perception drives a lot of RP. Perception drives a lot of life.

Moirean

But the COSTLY and TIRING effort of rejuvenation is not the only way to respond. I've said this like five times now, I don't know how to be more clear about it. Rejuvenation - the thing everyone hates doing and the reason people hate exterminations - is not the only way you can respond.

Rashar

Not disagreeing there.

Toz

Codedly, maybe not. ICly, though? It's like not responding to the Syssin throwing a kegger in your house. Or not responding to loud shouts about how weak your guild is - these guys aren't JUST destroying (unnaturally) something that you're supposed to be keeping an eye on. They're doing it in such a way that it strengthens them, damages you, and in the most abominating way possible. From a RP perspective, it's defilement. I'd argue you ARE a bad forestal if you don't want to go fix exterminations - this isn't just a fire that burned some plants This is every living thing in an area nuked like some kind of hideous scar, to feed a necromancer's essence. I dunno of a RL example- just, it's beyond violating your place.

You're sort of obligated to match code for code, at this point. To do otherwise is on par with defeat. They came into your turf, tore it up, and you're not strong enough to do anything back codedly. You just sit there and throw some emotes and hope they go away. So conceding defeat - and conceding defeat because the person you're conceding defeat TO doesn't want to die 50 times for their attacks? Ehhhh. I can see not wanting to do that.

Moirean

Ok whatever. I give up.

Xavin

@Toz, I think you have the point that many of us are arguing very, very right.

@Seir, the old underground forest is now in the Vintal Glade. It was moved there when lower azdun was destroyed in the same event that saw Iosyne return as Spidersyne, Zsorachnor die, and Izlauth get more powerful.

Ishin

R.I.P. Big Z. The days of you being a monster and a legit achievement are long gone. Ishin would put skeletons on your grave in memory if you had one.

Serrice

Maybe he has an urn somewhere.

Ishin

Maybe.

Samp

As I see it, this is The Midnight Age where there isn't a choice of plain-and simple win/lose because everything is complete unicorns. If every room in the forest wasn't exterminated/was rejuvenated, that doesn't represent baseline. In our characters' lifetimes, the forests have always been under attack.

Rejuvenating every room is reasonably costly- this is war, y'all. (I know both sides are guilty of this, but we talk a lot about playing the loser.) The mechanics absolutely need to be spiced up for Duiran, but I don't think the end is easily reversing every extermination. What's fun about that?

The game resets to be in the favor of forestals. Even though a literal global extermination is mechanically impossible, Indorani still RP that. Why can't forestals try, but understand it's mechanically impossible to globally rejuvenate?

I really like the idea of extermination auras and shouting rangers. +1 to @Jensen's suggestions!
What if a ranger could track/go aggro on anyone exterminating? That'd stop lowbies from messing around.
What if there was a CT message with a room name when someone who recently exterminated steps into a forest?
What if movement for folks who recently exterminated was slowed down in forest rooms?
What if rejuvenate was lower in the skillset and y'all could get guild novices and city folks to do it for favors?
What if rejuvenate was a research skill and it wasn't class dependent?
What if traps would automatically spring on recent exterminators?

What's something that would be fun for forestals in this situation?

Are folks getting cursed and hexed out the unicorn for exterminating?

Xavin

To my knowledge, there are no longer rangers anywhere in the forests, as they were all recalled to deal with the aberration events. At the current time it -is- only lowbies doing it, because they're doing it for a guild task to fill essence caps.

Here's the thing. The resets aren't really in favor of Duiran. The resets are in favor of the concoctions skillset, for which non-exterminated rooms that have plants in them are essential. The conflict mechanic grossly favors the necromancy classes in this instance. Something major would need to change for it to become fun for Duiran.

Damonicus

How about adding for the lifer side the ability to turn desert into forests. Equal out the comms used for both exterminating and rejuvination. Now equal playing field and everone can grief happily

Jensen

deserts are natural environments too. Would only make sense for unnatural ones, and all those are in place for rp story archs

Toz

(How about let's delete exterm because it's a silly skill)

Seir

Exterminate no longer has any reason to exist. It was utilized for a combat purpose back in the day to cancel out groves/grove abilities/protecting shadow from grove effects when they're in a forest. Groves no longer exist and Teradrim provide the direct counter to Shamans and their overgrowth. There is zero reason for Exterminate to exist any longer.

Irruel

@moirean
The debate about whether rejuvenation needs to be done immediately or not will never be agreed on. Debating that is forum RP. I appreciate that you're just trying to help out by offering suggestions, but really - if people weren't happy to do the rejuvenating, they wouldn't do it. They'd start arguing the points you've been making, in game.

This particular discussion, which began in a different thread, was originally about whether the large number of bounties was excessive or not.

Whether exterminating is considered terrible or just a little bit bad doesn't change my opinion on that. Nor does it matter whether it is easy to fix or not.

Why?

Because anyone exterminating wants the conflict. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. The act of exterminating is every bit as boring as rejuvenating it is. So - let them have the conflict.

Omei

Seir said:

Groves no longer exist

wut said:

You possess the following abilities in Naturalism:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elevate Ascend into the treetops with ease.
Emergence Purge the taint of the Earthen.
Blending Fade away into the forest's shadow.
Thorncoat A coat of vile thorns to punish your foes.
Panacea Purify your body of ailments and maladies.
Rejuvenate Heal the land that has been blighted.
Forestbrand Brand the foes of nature.

You have the following Grove abilities:
Perceive Notice the presence of a Shamanic grove.
Imprint Place your mark and bring forth a grove.
Sever Destroy the bond between you and your grove.
Look Use your grove to gaze upon another.
Cage Prevent all entry to and from your abode.
Whisper Speak through the trees themselves.
Eyes Discern the presence of any within the forest.
Fertility Speed the growth of plants temporarily.
Return Quickly return home to your grove.
Everbloom Invigorate body and mind with ephemeral blossoms.
GroveFlow Travel through Grove links.
Linking Form a permanent connection between groves.

??????????????????????????????????????

Aishia

I guess from a pk mechanic sort of view they pretty much exist as flavor/minor utility rooms.

Seir

Let me rephrase. The function that they served in regards to Exterminate, for an example preventing grove summon from working in a forest room and pulling the group away, no longer exist. Groves now serve a completely utility/flavor functionality in their current form and no longer something that need be worried about from a combat perspective. Honestly, I thought this was a given, but I'm up for adding some well-deserved balancing to the Semantics skillset while we're at it.

Ishin

Coming from the guy who doesn't play anymore, your words carry a lot of weight, bro.


Not hatin'. Just sayin'.

Seir

Still play, just not on Seir. Soooo... Yerp.

Jensen

edit: drunk posts I don't remember typing are not productive

Daskalos

I think his point was that they no longer serve as a PK skill and thus a hard counter to a now only RP skill isn't needed.

Seir

The intent behind my post was pretty much what Daskalos said. I wasn't talking about removing groves or what have you. I was saying that there is no longer any point to exterminate existing because its sole function was a combat mechanic so shadow could counter against fights that required them to be in forests so they wouldn't get wrecked by unavoidable grove summoning and other various effects that Druids could do to people standing in the forest. It literally has no purpose now unless someone's roleplay is to perpetuate a tedious, boring ability that does nothing except put a bounty on their head and waste five seconds of a forestal's time. It's not a good mechanic and you can broaden the forestal/necromancer conflict dynamic to something a lot better than exterminate/rejuvenate, as I outlined in a previous post as a small example.

Not directed at Jensen but I really do wish people would stop jumping to negative conclusions. Suggestions are just that: suggestions. I'm not saying that this mechanic should be this way or the game fails at everything. I'm trying to give some constructive feedback instead of complaining and yet offering nothing in the way of doing something about it. I mean, really, I know I'm not the only one who feels exterminate is largely pointless in the grand scheme of things and that forestal/necromancy conflict could be a lot more interesting than two legacy abilities from Achaea and, by extension, Oakstone.

Edit: And I don't particularly like that my suggestions are overruled because I post on Seir but seldom play him. I play my alt and I'm under no obligation to out it or post through my alt as some have privately suggested. I wouldn't really frequent the forums as much as I do if I wasn't playing in some form. Believe me, as much as I like some of you, I don't particularly find any joy in arguing with you unless I felt there was a way to increase my enjoyment or the enjoyment of others.

Elie

Okay, I'mma take a swing at this, because I think @Moirean‌'s right. What she's trying to say that people keep ignoring is that it's entirely possible to pursue an RP-motivated response to extermination without having to rejuvenate every single room. Your mechanical response does not have to be the sum total of your RP response. Because - and correct me if I'm wrong here, not especially involved - but my understanding is that rooms regrow at the new year. So rejuvenating is not mechanically necessary. It is entirely RP-motivated - you do it because you need to be seen to be doing SOMETHING.

But you could do a LOT of things. That's what Spinesreach is kind of known for doing - pushing the envelope of what works in Aetolia by looking for solutions and then asking gods if they can do what they're dreaming. Duiran could do the same. Research ways to protect the forest. Draw upon the spirits of Dendara and enact a ritual that will keep the forest from being damaged for a year - but to do it you have to sacrifice three councilmembers. Conjure spirits that will rise from the ground whenever someone exterminates and they'll have to fight them. Ensnare some eld and persuade them to defend your grounds. All of these things are RP responses that you could work on, could involve the ENTIRE council in making work, and it would increase community feeling and give you something to do, while giving you a different response that was actually effective and interesting. Why are you relying so heavily on the solution that bores you, accomplishes nothing, and doesn't stop the person doing it? Try something new. Try ANYTHING new.

Irruel

You're assuming that setting bounties is considered a chore.

Moirean

The rejuvenation apparently is. People complain about having to do it, when the point is that they don't HAVE to.

Aishia

I'd say the annoying thing about it is the people in question are just running around doing it, and just about nothing else. It's more a troll move than some actual attempt at conflict or interaction with the other side. Running if/when they get attacked, avoiding the repercussions and etc. If you're not trolling for pk, or rp, then really there's not much to be said for it. I'm sure on the other side if there IS any like, RP with the guild going on about it, we miss it, but that still seems to skip a lot of the purpose of a conflict mechanic. I'm all for trolling people, don't get me wrong! But there are better ways!!

Aishia

I mean personally I don't feel some huge onus to scour for areas to rejuvenate and stuff, but I do feel an onus to reply to it WITH VIOLENCE. It's something I find offensive enough on a character level to want to provide a deterrent against it.

Moirean

If they're running away from the PK follow-through...that is lame. Like, I thought that was the whole point of why they were doing it, to get some PK.