Best Of

The results are in!

With a total of 34 votes, we now have the official tally and tier list of the community.


SOLO TIER:

S Tier:
Zealot / Ravager = 1 x 23, 2 x 4 (7) = 1.15 [up from B]

A Tier:
Wayfarer = 1 x 14, 2 x 14, 3 x 2 (4) = 1.60 [same]
Carnifex / Warden = 1 x 14, 2 x 13, 3 x 3, 4 x 1 (3) = 1.71 [up from B]
Teradrim / Tidesage = 1 x 11, 2 x 11, 3 x 3, 4 x 1 (8) = 1.77 [same]

B Tier:
Praenomen / Akkari = 1 x 12, 2 x 8, 3 x 5, 4 x 3, 5 x 1 (5) = 2.07 [down from A]
Luminary / Earthcaller = 1 x 7, 2 x 12, 3 x 5, 4 x 3 (7) = 2.15 [down from S]
Archivist = 1 x 5, 2 x 11, 3 x 5, 4 x 3 (10) = 2.25 [same]
Sentinel = 1 x 5, 2 x 10, 3 x 5, 4 x 3 (11) = 2.26 [same]
Ascendril = 1 x 5, 2 x 9, 3 x 6, 4 x 1, 5 x 1 (12) = 2.27 [up from C]
Monk = 1 x 6, 2 x 9, 3 x 6, 4 x 4 (9) = 2.32 [same]
Templar / Revenant = 1 x 3, 2 x 13, 3 x 10, 4 x 2 (6) = 2.39 [same]

B- Tier:
Shapeshifter = 1 x 5, 2 x 10, 3 x 7, 4 x 5, 5 x 1 (6) = 2.54 [same]
Shaman / Alchemist = 1 x 3, 2 x 10, 3 x 5, 4 x 6, 5 x 1 (9) = 2.68 [same]
Indorani / Oneiromancer = 1 x 2, 2 x 8, 3 x 12, 4 x 4 (8) = 2.69 [down from A]
Syssin = 1 x 2, 2 x 9, 3 x 10, 4 x 6, 5 x 1 (6) = 2.82 [same]
Sciomancer = 1 x 5, 2 x 4, 3 x 7, 4 x 4, 5 x 3 (11) = 2.83 [down from S]

C Tier:
Bard = 1 x 2, 2 x 4, 3 x 2, 4 x 7, 5 x 5 (14) = 3.45 [new]

D Tier:
Level 200 Class = 1 x 1, 3 x 4, 4 x 3, 5 x 11 (15) = 4.21 [new]


TEAM TIER:

A+ Tier:
Luminary / Earthcaller = 1 x 15, 2 x 9, 3 x 2 (8) = 1.50 [down from S]

A Tier:
Shaman / Alchemist = 1 x 13, 2 x 10, 3 x 4 (7) = 1.67 [same]
Carnifex / Warden = 1 x 18, 2 x 8, 3 x 4, 4 x 2 (2) = 1.69 [same]
Archivist = 1 x 14, 2 x 8, 3 x 3, 4 x 2 (7) = 1.74 [up from B]
Sentinel = 1 x 13, 2 x 10, 3 x 2, 4 x 2 (7) = 1.74 [same]
Monk = 1 x 12, 2 x 9, 3 x 4, 4 x 1 (8) = 1.77 [same]
Praenomen / Akkari = 1 x 13, 2 x 10, 3 x 4, 3 x 4 (4) = 1.84 [up from B]
Wayfarer = 1 x 12, 2 x 9, 3 x 6, 4 x 1 (6) = 1.86 [up from B]
Indorani / Oneiromancer = 1 x 9, 2 x 13, 3 x 6 (6) = 1.89 [up from B]
Shapeshifter = 1 x 11, 2 x 7, 3 x 9, 4 x 4, 5 x 1 (2) = 1.97 [up from B]

B Tier:
Bard = 1 x 9, 2 x 8, 3 x 4, 4 x 4, 5 x 1 (9) = 2.23 [new]
Templar / Revenant = 1 x 8, 2 x 10, 3 x 7, 4 x 4 (5) = 2.24 [same]
Teradrim / Tidesage = 1 x 7, 2 x 9, 3 x 8, 4 x 3 (7) = 2.26 [same]
Level 200 Class = 1 x 6, 2 x 5, 3 x 6, 4 x 1, 5 x 2 (14) = 2.40 [new]
Ascendril = 1 x 4, 2 x 6, 3 x 8, 4 x 3 (12) = 2.48 [down from A]
Zealot / Ravager = 1 x 8, 2 x 4, 3 x 9, 4 x 3, 5 x 2 (7) = 2.50 [same]
Sciomancer = 1 x 1, 2 x 9, 3 x 11, 4 x 3, 5 x 2 (8) = 2.85 [same]

C Tier:
Syssin = 1 x 1, 2 x 3, 3 x 12, 4 x 9, 5 x 2 (7) = 3.30 [same]


And now for a little commentary! Just note I'm probably going to ignore Level 200 classes, they are intentionally weaker then the rest of them.

TOP AND BOTTOM DOGS:

Without much surprise, Zealot / Ravager (solo) heads the rankings after winning the last couple of Duels in a row. The explosive power they can output in pushing quickly towards Immolation / Extinguish, along with the removal of Renew pushes this class over the limit a bit. It'll likely see some rebalancing fairly soon.

Luminary / Earthcaller (team) holding the top rank is somewhat of a surprise to me, as they aren't seen very often in team compositions. Despite the Overwhelm / Deface nerf being the most recent major change to them, they still hold that number one spot in most people's minds. The rest of their kit is nothing to scoff at, perhaps this is why they sit at the top.

Bard (solo) sits far at the bottom of the tier list, the most new class of the game. This is a somewhat common trend when it comes to new classes, as both Archivist and Zealot went through similiar feelings on their release. Perhaps there is more weight to the opinion this time, as it is neutral and accessible to all.

Syssin (team) claim the bottom of the team tier list for a second time. Despite a few buffs recently, perhaps it is time for some bigger buffs to the class, who also remains low in the solo list too.

INTERESTING POINTS:

There is a growing amount of people who are unsure of how to rank a class in its capabilities, almost double the amount compared to last time class viability was polled.

Sciomancers fell down from S to B- tier, although I believe it has been proven a few times that the removal of Renew has lifted their competitiveness after some of the bigger nerfs they received.

Luminary / Earthcaller have also fallen down from S to B tier. They might actually be worse off then Sciomancers, as Fitness becoming available to all might be a bigger issue for them then everyone losing Renew.

Indorani / Oneiromancer also dropped a bit, perhaps fueled by Fitness becoming accessible to everyone. It can make aeon a lot harder to stick with asthma, which may reflect this change in thought.

Something I am noticing is that there hasn't been too much of a shift in what is considered powerful in team combat through the last couple of surveys, which might indicate that it is time to give team-oriented skills some bigger changes to refresh the meta. People do seem to be rating a number of classes just overall higher in general, which may further support that the team scene might be a bit too sterile.

We also have a few less people voting from Spirit now, compared to past surveys. It's usually been about even. There were 22 Shadow votes, 11 Spirit votes, and 1 voter who marked both.

I'll weigh in here, both as someone who was cityless on another char for almost a year for RP reasons and someone currently struggling with the hyperfocused identities of the new cities.


The rogue experience is a horrendously lonely one for anyone who is not already a well-established and well-known player. More, it's mechanically brutal, but it's honestly the isolation that's the worst for me when I go rogue (or am kicked out lol) more than the myriad inconveniences of being cityless. This is a roleplaying game, and events and NPC involvement are (totally valid statistics incoming) 70% focused on cities, 20% untethered general, 6% focused on guilds, and 4% focused on orders. If you are citiless, you don't even know about the vast majority of things happening in the game, and very few people will think to reach out and invite you or inform you. And atop that, there is a powerful sense of org ownership of events intended for them, and outsiders are generally unwelcome - which is fine! Just not great for rogues.

The mechanical maluses have been discussed enough above, I think, so I want to weigh in on the social aspects.

Let me preface this whole thing with this: I think it's a good thing for the game as a whole to have stronger and ore focused identities.

That being said.

Having hyperspecific and enforced org identities works much better when you have more of them, like Lusternia and Achaea. Currently there are only four acceptable ways for you to play a character (if you want to be a part of city politics, events, relevance, etc - or not just be a second-class citizen in the most literal way possible, in Spinesreach's case): Nazi Scientist, Angelic Crusader, Mordor Enthusiast, or ELF Ecoterrorist. While each of those is rich, exciting, and full of impetus for plot movement and roleplay.. not everyone is going to identify with or even really enjoy those lines of roleplay, which leaves people feeling like they don't belong at best, or will be actively punished and ostracized for not being 100% on board with the org's MO at worst. And many if not all of these themes will have aspects of it that are strongly OOC-triggering for people as well - from childhood religious trauma things to PPA things.

And there's not much to pick from, especially when we bring up the elephant in the room: OOC feels. There are some orgs that, even if they did fit a person's interests or roleplay, they are essentially unwelcome to join or would be made unwelcome when there due to people's OOC grudges or dislikes. Should this have an effect on an RP game? No, and yet it does. I had a character in top-level leadership in an org who was actively excluded of everything to do with leadership, from mass messages to in-person meetings... because of OOC knowledge of Lena being my other char. More, I've been shown pages and pages and pages of screenshots of people spending a horrifying and deeply hurtful amount of time smearing me as a person over my character's words and action, and seen people do the same to others, too. Even if I wanted to join the orgs those people were in, I'd know (from experience) that it wouldn't go well. There are many others in the same boat of having gotten on the wrong side of a group. That means that their best option is to make due where they are if the OOC element is more friendly, even if the RP now doesn't fit... or go rogue, which is miserable.

I don't think the solution to this is watering down organizational identity again. I also don't think making rogues awesome is the only solution, but I do think improving the rogue experience is a viable way to handle a player who wants to be actively involved in the world but is throttled on options of where to go based on their personal capacity for exposure to triggers and OOC pressures.

Based on my own personal experiences and opinions, which others may or may not agree with, here is what I think would go a long way toward this:




- In theory, a rogue can involve themselves with every city - it's touted as a 'perk' in every discussion. In practice, every city distrusts and shuns them at worst, or ignores them at best. By implementing the above suggestion of allowing 'guest' access to the city aether when within the city proper, you open up the ability to engage in social connection as well as rich RP possibilities. This could also be a toggleable option given to city leadership as well! When a city is holding an event that is open to the public, being able to chatter about it on CT with non-city participants instead of just citymates would keep everyone on the same level of information and also be really potentially fun! People can still be forced to leave the city if something is going on they wish to keep private, and the city can still provide consequences for poor aether behavior.

- Allow rogues to 'rent' access to a pylon, which lets them get mists to turn in at maybe a less advantageous turnin value (benefiting the city, too), have access to modifications (maybe limited ones), as well as being able to trade in tokens for orbs and buy amulets (at higher prices for each). These things are among the most stinky of mechanical detriments to being a rogue, and this would alleviate that while still giving a mechanical advantage to those in cities proper.

-Allow rogues with guest status to see the player-made EVENTS for the city they are standing in.




- Without the demands of political obligation, rogues have all the time and focus in the world for study! Raise the rate of learning lessons to 30. It's still half what a city that's invested into research for it would get, but it's more than the base rate of 15 they'd get without it, which feels like a fair balance and helps ease the sting of trying to learn things without a Libram as a rogue.

- This isn't something enforceable or even really something to implement, just a general thought: NPCs acknowledging rogues when they try to get involved would go a VERY long way toward players accepting their presence there, and their contribution. If the person isn't unwelcome (re: the event isn't an org-secret/sensitive one), even passive NPC acknowledgment (like a guard captain giving a brief glancing up at them then nodding and continuing his brief or something) would be awesome. Similarly, if they are unwelcome, have involved NPCs reflect that. This sort of tonal guidance would go a long way to giving players a framework for the interaction instead of falling back on 'I don't like that person, make them leave' or 'I don't know why they're here and I guess they can stay but we're going to ignore them'.

-Access to an Esterport Blackmarket where they can buy cool things that help bridge some mechanical gaps as well as giving city players a reason to interact with them (to get the hookup themselves)!
Example ideas:
> a drug that mimics the effects of Grace (maybe with a malus after or during)
> smuggled Albedi/Cradle of Fire perfumery and fumology ingredients
> a short-lived potion that lets your shouts reach all Planes and continents
> rotating wares that are city-exclusive and in small supply (like, 3 bolts of sunsilk one day, 3 Duirani fungi another, 3 impulsium another,
etc)


Just some thoughts! Ideally, a more robust rogue experience is one that enriches the world as a whole, not only that of citiless players, and I feel things like this would do that.

That’s a good point. I think it’s worth pointing out that ‘primary method’ of playing the game is constantly in flux, evident in how many paradigm shifts we’ve seen in the game over the past year. Play styles that have historically been labelled troublesome, lesser or third class by other players in the game are now primary features of org identity. The same people that were told ‘you’re playing the game wrong’ are now successfully trailblazing new org identities and adding to the vibrancy of Aetolia.

Just a personal opinion, but you aren’t playing the game wrong by choosing a path outside the four major cities. I don’t agree that every secular ideology deserves a new org, but I certainly don’t agree with players being treated as second class due to a desire to play differently than the norm.

There are a whole lot of good ideas here.

However, I think it all comes down to the reasons for why the rogue experience is being bettered in the first place.

If the point is to allow people to who might not feel identified with any of the present cities for whatever reason to play without feeling like they are third class players then I don't see the reason for unduly limiting the proposed scope of rogue experience improvements.

What I mean is, and I am fully aware it is an unpopular opinion, that rogue shouldn't be punished just because its rogue. Sure, it shouldn't maybe have the same exact benefits as city life, and it should definitely have cons, but it should have its own distinct benefits too, things they might even be able to do better than people in cities, because it is a choice as valid as any other for the people who take it.

Right now most suggestions center around 'worse than cities in every way' and I think that's honestly a wasted opportunity to do something halfway interesting with it.

While I think it's important for the integrity of the game to maintain these lines and legitimate consequences for being a lone person in such a dangerous world (aetolia in reality would be a terrifying place for any of us to walk from Spines to Bloodloch), I see no reason why things can't be tweaked for those who want to color within those lines.

Maybe something can be done about opening up the cities. I don't just mean Bloodloch, Spines, Enorian and Duiran either - this could go for Esterport, Jaru, etcetera. I've been tossing around the notion of a guest rank, which allows you to read help files if any exist and speak to the city at large.

Guests could register with a city at, say, the refugee booths from the War of Night, or upon invitation from the Ambassador or an Aide. This person would pick up the identifier of "Guest of Spines" (for example) and be able to speak in turn.

(Spinesreach): [Guest] Didi says, "Hi."


Requirements could be tether-alignment, only one city, approval, you name it. Just gives them a better way to connect with people while remaining that "lone star", as well as means for the cities to interact with and/or punish people who take it too far.

I'd like to see someone like Didi able to converse with people much like over CT.




Alternatively, we could make city-chats proximity-based for non-citizens, as well as give access to CHELP files in a location like a library, where any non-citizen can peruse the files there. Didi comes in the Outer Gate, she can hear everything other citizens do.

I think, where I'm trying to get at with this, is that these people need to be able to communicate with the cities to allow for either the chance for them to go to a city, or at the very least the chance to participate at a higher level than they currently can.

I also think reducing cities to 'meh politics' is also a gross underestimation of what a nation represents. It's entirely baffling to me why people think that a world power can be reduced to whatever players are currently leading it, that you might disagree with or take umbrage at. England survived Henry VIII, after all. Regimes change. I would very much like to tackle or talk about this idea, though it isn't fully aligned with the topic of this thread. I don't think it should be an easy or simple thing for someone to be driven out of an org, or for a city to feel like there is only "one way" to play it, or else. I've been trying to beat Duiran into rethinking this concept, to varying levels of success, but it's a work in progress.

I agree this isn't really the place to talk about it at length, but to be utterly frank, I feel you're kind of speaking from a position of privelige in the game because Sibatti as a character is one that's carried a LOT of clout in name alone and you as a player are regarded as pretty well-liked by most and have tended to be members of groups that are in power the most or are most easily able to grasp it no matter how long you're away for.

As a player, particularly playing Phoe, I've been an on and off rogue for a long-ass time, and I played for like 15 years. A lot of the people who end up as rogues are often disregarded as irrelevant bit players and get shoved off to the side. Or are people who aren't liked by groups of players.

Cities being 'meh politics' is a pretty apt description because I've lost count of how many people who've switched sides, gone rogue, or just outright quit because they as a character (or even a player) got on someone's bad side and got blacklisted for life or put so much time and effort into the game only to be given little acknowledgement in return. I do NOT blame them at all for just... Not wanting to deal with it at all.