Mafia: The Return of Ashtan

Damonicus

Ahh, well. good job Omei. I recommend the reflector protect Omei now. and the bear pm Omei. Omei if you get more then one of each just note them down for later, and if the bear or mage dies at night, shoot the other one who pm'd you. Also, we will need to pick a sacrifice for the day.

Moirean

Omei's logic is sound, and, like I said, the Sentaari is the far safer role for us to have claimed. It sucks to murder someone, but this is the best way to prove she is who she says she is - we can't trust investigation, as the Polemarch can muddy that. Once this gets confirmed, we can use Omei as a coordination point for our other roles to safely communicate.

My only concern is that we might lose someone - and numbers do count in this game. An alternative suggestion is for the Ascendril to reflect someone and have Omei hit that person during the night. That way we get verification without risking a death.

That being said, I'm unsure how to read Xenia. She brings up suspicious tingles, but she could just be kinda confused - she insisted on the no lynch last game as well. Still, claiming Omei was suspicious is a bit meh and pushing it. Omei's smart enough to not just randomly call out for power roles and hope to get a mafia kill off that, so I definitely didn't read Omei as suspicious.

Periluna

THINGS ARE HAPPENING WAY TOO FAST AND I FEEL LOST!!!!

Okay. Sorry. Had to get that out there.

I'm listening to Omei. Even if it was a bad idea last time when I did it. I think he's good this time.

Desian

LEEEEEROYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY JEEEEEEEEEEEEEENKINSSSSSSSSS

Desian

Oh god I think this is the wrong mafia thread. I thought we were signing up and didn't look.

Moirean

Oh hi, stuff happened while I was posting.

Well! Nice job.

Vharen

I like killing, but -- and I may be mistaken in this -- it seems a bit tactically unsound to burn one of the two kill buttons for the Sent in the first round. It does seem like a pretty solid way of getting a confirmed person, but I am not as familiar with the metas of Mafia as some others, so I am not sure why it's the best bet to make.

Desian

Nevermind, right thread, just too late. >.>

Vharen

Oh lord, the 6 posts before I refreshed. Bye Xenia!

Toz

Boom, headshot. So, let's play 'rally around the Omei' I guess.

Omei

In a game like this one, where there exists just one factional kill for the scum, no way of blocking roles, and a way to obscure detective results, having a confirmed good guy is a boon, @Vharen.

My rationale for being the Sentaari is this: the real Sentaari would have been among a minority reading this thread while we were arguing, and what reason would they have had to stick their neck out for an unconfirmed roleclaimer? This is something that could not have been premeditated. This is something that would have lost legitimacy as the rounds progressed.

Its happening in the first round makes my claim strong, and is well worth the sacrifice of the town's factional kill to gain an advantage that will keep paying for itself. Also, I took out a scum.

I feel like overall, we ended up with a pretty good deal.

Damonicus

Well, luckily the shot was right. . Either way it proved a valuable point which locks in Omei as a good guy.  Now all Omei has to do is distinguish the good from the bad and start everyone on the death trains.

All aboard the Nightmare train. (Well Artist train now, but still...)

Toz

Ascendril on perma protect you duty until they somehow get popped seems like a good plan. Easier when there's not two or three leaders who all finger-point at each other, you know? Confirmed boss is nice.

...Plus if someone else tries to give you lip, I guess you can just blow their brains up too.

Omei

@Damonicus: See? You get it.

@Toz: Darn tootin'.

Okay. Now give me some time to think about this.

Damonicus

Of course I get it, was my idea for the Sentaari to come out in the first place

Teani

Wow, go to sleep and wake up to all these posts having been made. Bye Xenia, good job Omei!

Minarael

Well done, Omei. Ya'll bounced all over each other while I was trying to make my dang computer work. 

Def. in agreement with the confirmed boss plan, especially since we can keep Omei protected. 

For the time being, I'm going to drop my vote since the game seems to be hopping without the random element. I still have my eye on you, punk. 

Unvote: Toz

Omei

Alright. @Vharen - although I freely acknowledge that you lack a clear understanding of the meta, you seemed just a bit too eager to jump to Xenia's defense. While this is the first round and certain concessions have to be made, you were very, very eager to mount a smear campaign against me, one that you hastily backtracked on by citing a lack of expertise once it turned out that 1) I could kill you with my brain, and 2) didn't need the Bahkatu in order to smell scum.

"Petulant", indeed. More like "defending your Marzpawn buddy," from where I'm standing.

Vote: Vharen

Vharen

I didn't backtrack. Your first argument wasn't worded properly, and you came across pretty poorly. Your response was "You said random was bad, but you used a reason. HYPOCRITE," which sounds like a hastily scrambled defense with no backing. Later, you explained your reasoning better, and the mindboom sealed you as a good guy when I was already considering changing my vote.

If calling out logical fallacies makes you a target, then I'm pretty much boned.

Edit: I guess maybe I did backtrack, but I backtracked for a reason. Xenia's argument seemed fine to me, until it didn't.

Omei

Name a single logical fallacy I used, @Vharen.

If we're going to throw fancy words around, I can name several fallacies that Xenia used in her misguided attempt to implicate me.

However, that's hardly the point. The point isn't that my initial suggestion was badly worded. It makes perfect sense. It just wasn't the best idea, which you'll note; I took @Damonicus and @Moirean's suggestion and claimed of my own accord. You chose, entirely arbitrarily, to deliberately misinterpret me, and now you're attempting to cover your ass after you completely failed to get a train started on me with @Xenia.

Sorry. Nice try.

Vharen

Kill me if you want. Calling someone a hypocrite for using a reason because random is bad was silly and derp, and I'm not going to say otherwise.

Noting that I'm talking specifically about the first thing you said to her, again. You explained yourself better afterwards. But, you seem to have made up your mind, and you are wrong. Sorry.

Toz

You know, in retrospect I shouldn't be surprised Xenia managed to die on the first day, prior to anyone even getting lynched. It's what she does best (<3).

And now on to grimmer matters - I'm not going to argue with the brain-ninja. Vote: Vharen

Omei

[spoiler]Xenia said:

I don't think that the bahkatu should role claim because there's still the Sentaari can kill at any time. Assuming the Sentaari is not aligned with the city. If that is the case, then it would be a really bad for the town to lose their Bahkatu in the first few days. 

In regards to voting on day one, I think randomly voting a citizen really doesn't help the town and in my experience, it even forces role claims that potentially harm the city through losing a power early on. Last game I think I was a bit too over zealous and hasty to just end the rounds. My instincts are to Vote No one, however, Omei's request for the Bakhatu to claim this early really makes me suspicious. 

For this reason, I am voting Omei. [/spoiler]

@Vharen: Xenia's "reason" was uninformed and unresearched, which she used to construct a shaky proposition against me. First: The Sentaari is on the town's side. Second: The Ascendril can protect any single roleclaim. Third: It is well-proven that a random lynch gives better odds of helping the town than not lynching anyone, which reduces those odds, invariably, to 0%. She is either wrong, or fallacious.

And yet, you went along with it hook, line, and sinker. Despite your seeming commitment to intellectual germaneness, and your interest in thoroughly examining my fallacious reasoning.

What possible reason would scum have for asking the Bahkatu to reveal themselves? It was a town gambit, plain and simple. The scum do not stand to profit from such a public gesture. No thought went into Xenia's retort, and your blind acceptance of it was pure, 100% wrong.

If you'll fess up to the fact that she messed up, and you, by proxy, also messed up, I will consider dropping it. Until then? You, sir, are very suspicious. You only cared about this once my position became unassailable.

Get 'im, boys.

Moirean

And girls!

While I agree that Vharen does come across as somewhat backing Xenia, I...I dunno. That seems too obvious, I guess? I mean, I guess I kinda backed her too, by pointing out that she was gung-ho about the no lynch last game. Gonna wait to see what his reply is to Omei's post.

That being said, we do need a random lynch for today.

Oh, also, I GUESS I forgive Toz for trying to INC the babeh. 

Unvote: Toz

Vharen

This forum design hates me.
Omei said:

Also, you just said randomly voting doesn't help the town, and yet here you are using a grand precedent of one post to attempt a train against me. Hypocrisy, much?

You're going to need to do better than that.

I became suspicious of you here, because a sliver of a reason seemed better than randomness, yet you attacked her pretty viciously. If you had just explained why her reasoning was bad in the first place, I'm not certain I'd have ever wondered, and we wouldn't be having this conversation now.

Truthfully, Xenia's post seemed to make some sense. It seemed like having the sniffer require the shield would open up the pewpew guy for being killed. I was debating changing my vote to Omei, but I waited to hear more of the defense. Xenia blowing up made it a non-question. And I sort of felt bad about it until the whole "Let's kill Vharen" thing started.

I was wrong, but now we are protected from my lack of intimacy with the game since I can just vote along with Omei. Unless, of course, it's a vote for me.

Omei

@Moirean: Yes, but you were more fair in your assessment. Vharen was very gung-ho and unreasonable in his support of Xenia, to the point where he forgave numerous flaws in a very clumsy argument for the sake of demonizing mine.

Now that we know - likely earlier than the scum expected - that Xenia was, in fact, among their number, it reflects to me a very calculated early game gambit to allay suspicion by way of leading a train, rather than bandwagoning onto an extant one.

Omei

Still... I agree, with @Vharen's latest post, that it was probably just an accident, created by unfamiliarity with the game. Apologies for going after you the way I did. I only wanted to be sure.

Unvote: Vharen

Bedtime for me.

Moirean

Interesting idea. I don't think we've seen many mafia be so bold as to actually actively start the train themselves. It's a pretty risky option for them to take.

BUT. You did something similar last game (granted, it was doubled up), and it nearly got the mafia the win, so I can definitely see them trying to mimic it this game.

So - and ugh, this will probably throw myself under the bus if he turns out to be town - I'm going to join Omei and...

Vote: Vharen

Moirean

Oh, bah. We both posted at once.

Eh, gonna leave my vote up for now. I think your ideas were interesting, even if you didn't. :P

Ilyon

Welp, this game sure started big-time overnight. Could only offer a RNG-vote at this point, so going to do the same as others and wait a bit first, I think.