Mafia: The Return of Ashtan

Etrigan

Dermacus considers me suspicious for hiding in numbers, when we all know the real threats hide in plain sight.

Aren

Actually, I consider you suspicious as well Etrigan for the whole bandwagon thing. At least in the second round I took a gamble and voted based on my suspicions, despite everyone else being quiet. Omei, you only list me as suspicious or unsure among those others because we were the first to pipe up and move the round along. Just because I vote straight off doesn't mean I can't or won't change it later.

I'm still saying Llok is acting odd, but I think the more quiet ones are the ones to watch...Etrigan.

Omei

Yes, but in the immortal words of George Carlin: while you're watching the quiet ones... a noisy one will [REDACTED FOR SANITY] kill you.

Periluna

I am in agreeance with Teani on this one. While I'm not defending Aryanne, I haven't played many games, but I've never agreed with a nolynch on the first day and therefore agree with her on that. Minarael has been seemingly pretty gung ho about lynching Aryanne, but she's not the only one that looks suspicious. Macavity and Etrigan jumped on the bandwagon without much thought to it (none that they voiced). 

VOTE: MINARAEL

Minarael

I find it interesting to see people claiming I'm being 'gung ho' when all I have done is point out inconsistencies and have only voted to lynch one person after a whole string of them. 

Shall I sit meekly in the corner and wait to be slaughtered in my sleep? 

Demarcus

Huh. Voting for the sole reason of being "pushy". Sorry, I'm not buying it. (Mina being pushy, that is). If you could point out something like "Mina, you said all Dreikathi have blue hair, and you have blue hair, therefore you are very suspicious of being a Dreikathi!" I would be more inclined to give weight to your words. Instead you point your finger and instead of saying, "Oh this person doesn't sit well with me" you're saying "This person is pushy." My ylem_resonator artifact is tingling, and I sense an attempt to split to vote away from a Dreikathi. Who better to target than the ones that have actually been talking and providing some sort of reasoning more solid than a wet noodle?

My suspicions on who the Dreikathi are? Aryanne, Teani, Perulina, and the fourth is Etrigan just for band-wagoning in silence.

Demarcus

Another thing that just occurred to me. The Dreikathi had a problem coming to a consensus last night. Coincidence that Teani has claimed limited access to the internet?

Periluna

If you're gonna point a finger at me, at least spell my name right please?

That being said, in my half-asleep state I didn't quite finish my post with my thought processes.

Omei's post really says it all. Loud/pushy people always make me nervous. Sometimes more than the quiet ones. I remember jumping Llok in the past and he was the doctor or something. Doesn't mean they are mafia, obviously, they just... I don't know. Spidey sense thing that Moi mentioned I guess?

Etrigan

Point all the fingers you want at me, but you will be pointing them in the wrong direction.

I'm silent because I prefer listening. Gathering information.

Omei

Hands of suspicion leveled at Aryanne, Minarael, Aren, and Meskhenet. Etrigan has been too quiet, Llok too loud, and Periluna and Teani aren't tripping any alarm bells for me.

I feel like the cross-voting and deflection attempts we're seeing between these names is a gambit - an attempt at distancing themselves from one another so they don't get lumped together. It's a good scum tactic, but far better on the first day - at least, in my own experience. In order of confidence in my guesswork thus far: Minarael, Aren, Aryanne, Meskhenet.

Periluna

If you weren't a confirmed lifer, @Omei, you'd be suspicious to me too. You're agreeing with Minarael about Aryanne, but you are the most suspicious of her? Am I understanding that correctly. If not, I'm sorry. Doesn't matter how many times I've played this game, I still get very confused.

Toz

I...how many hands do you have exactly, Omei? And where are you getting them? You're all sketchy to me, I'm tempted to become a hermit- still, I think the chatty ones who are only chatty when you mention them are kind of suspicious. Etrigan, Aryanne, definitely. Llok is...odd. If someone has the time, a list of people who have defended other people'd be nice - maybe see some patterns there?

Omei

Hand of suspicion - a term referring to suspicion stronger than that conveyed by a finger of suspicion.

Allow me to specify: I agree with Minarael's logic, but I think she is applying her logic inconsistently; favoring some targets over others in service of some unknown agenda. Notice how she favors Aryanne, but attempts to deflect suspicion away from Meskhenet on the last page by defending her. That reads as very sketchy to me, given Meskhenet's preceding behavior, and makes me suspect a gambit of separation focused in on Aryanne.

That said, everything she has said about Aryanne makes sense, and I do suspect Aryanne as one of our scum.

Periluna

I guess I can understand that logic. I'm just not so certain Aryanne -is- scum. Could just be that she is inexperienced. Could be she's scum. I'm on the fence with her and therefore would prefer to not join in on Minarael's witchhunt here. 

Another question! @Demarcus: Why point your finger at Etrigan for bandwagoning in silence and not Macavity who did the same thing?

Teani

All I can do to justify my claim to limited internet access is to actually refer to another thread on this forum saying I am working abroad during certain dates this summer. It was made way before any mafia games were started.

Perhaps Minarael is a citizen, I just found her posts sketchy and would rather post my thoughts on it than not bothering at all.

Minarael

I wasn't deflecting Meskhennet's potential guilt, I was saying there wasn't much there to base an opinion on. I actually would put her in my 'suspicious' category. 

I think the only person I currently think has enough discrepancy in their posts to make a positive ID is Aryanne. The only player clear of suspicion for me is Omei, because of the death confirming the role. Everyone else is currently enjoying varying degrees of suspicion. 

Loud is a good way to get people talking. People talking more gives more opportunities to analyze and dig through their commentary to pluck out the scum. 

Edit - Further, people are being called scum simply for not talking. Apparently you can't win. Damned if you talk, damned if you sit quiet and observe. Rather at least instigate some discussion so I can observe behavior.

Llok

I think now is the time to get on and do something though. Do much dilly dallying

Piper

I'm going to have to side with @Etrigan about information gathering in silence. It's fine and all to be noisy but sometimes it's a good idea to have people take a step back from the chaotic finger pointing and actually see the information placed out in front of you so you can make a better decision while not being caught up in a frenzy or in a group crime of passion.

I will also note that I do not find @Teani particularly suspicious at this time. If the Bahkatu could work with Omei, if he's gotten in touch with her, would he check on either of these two people before we rally on either of them further on down the road? There are far more potentially suspicious that I'd rather focus on, for the time being.

Demarcus

Periluna said:

I guess I can understand that logic. I'm just not so certain Aryanne -is- scum. Could just be that she is inexperienced. Could be she's scum. I'm on the fence with her and therefore would prefer to not join in on Minarael's witchhunt here. 

Another question! @Demarcus: Why point your finger at Etrigan for bandwagoning in silence and not Macavity who did the same thing?

@Periluna Because Macavity has had at least two posts (I didn't go back all the way, my apologies) where he has stated something. Etrigan has posted almost nothing (three words in each of his voting posts, and then the one at the top of page 6 saying the real threat hides in plain sight). What better disguise than posting nothing at all, then nobody can throw your words back at you? So, until he gets over his whole not-wanting-to-post-because-I-prefer-silence bit, he's suspicious as hell to me. Macavity too, just less so.

Along the same line @Piper if everyone just gathered information in silence we'd have a pretty boring game. Since the townspeople don't know who anybody is, and the Dreikathi do know who everybody is, the townspeople are going to need chatter so they can catch when the Dreikathi slip up in their framing of an innocent townsperson in the lynching. If all they do is bandwagon in silence, we have no way of discerning they are Dreikathi.

Piper

@Demarcus Well, yes. Of course that would be dull, I'm saying that you can't always use that as a valid excuse to find someone guilty and lynch them. Some of us just aren't as noisy as the others because it's not our style, not because we're automatically scum.

Aryanne

Fair enough @Piper. (Like I said, all I wanted was to get quiet people talking. I'm in Demarcus' camp on this and want more people talking. We're just hearing the same minority of players a lot, it seems)

UNVOTE PIPER

My thoughts regarding those with suspicion thrown at them so far:

Llok - I've never played a game with him before, and some people are claiming he just acts crazy any time he plays, regardless of his role, so maybe my previous defense of him was just uninformed? That said, despite how @Mina translates my preference, I still think Llok's NoLynch vote (especially when there was an easy-to-board train on a citizen) is a good sign that he is probably one, too.

Etrigan - While the whole "slipping in to train without opinions to back it up" strikes me as really lame and poor playing, I don't think a baddie would be quite so blatant about it and actually state that's their reasoning.

Minarael - You started a train on me because... I've played twice before and preferred to vote NoLynch in the first round on those two previous games, and I chose to ask a simple question for the whole class and didn't realize I could ask a simple question privately. Obviously, I'm pretty biased, so clearly I'm going to find you very suspicious.

Teani - She doesn't strike me as especially suspicious for whatever reason. I guess I can see the point that she has spotty internet so the "mafia block" could be partially with her to blame. Though, the way Aldric phrased it, really sounded like NONE of the mafia had sent him votes. Her being unreachable is a condition that I'd think the mafia would have accounted for somehow. But, I dunno, maybe there is a point to that.

Crap - have to leave to get ready for work. I will hopefully have a chance to add thoughts later!

Minarael

No, Aryanne. I started a train on you because you made statements that seem inconsistent and nonsensical to me. You could be a townie, but you have the most holes in your story. Enough to give me reasonable confidence to vote against you. It COULD just be that you use words in really odd ways, it COULD just be that you really do not see that asking a clarifying question of the game leader privately is bad news bears, but that seems unlikely to me. Other people have behaved suspiciously, just not as much as you, in my opinion. 


Those who -are- silent and thoughtful should still provide the logic behind their decisions to hop on board a lynch. You should -have- logic behind your decision to kill someone. 

I still find it funny that people are suspicious for talking -and- for not talking. Make up your mind, people.

Demarcus

What I want to see here is we have 6, almost 7 pages now of responses and votes for people to thoughtfully analyze in silence. Time to break the silence and voice what you've learned in your silent ways. Failure to do so at this point, in my opinion, is cause for concern that you're either going to be a dead-weight townie that is just going to cloud our judgements and you're helping mask the Dreikathi, or you're a Dreikathi trying not to blow your cover. Either way, you're an asset to the Dreikathi and need to be eliminated. As I previously said, we only need to be successful in about 50% of our lynches (less so because of brain-bullet from Omei) so getting rid of townies that are an asset to the Dreikathi isn't that big of a loss.

Now, before the Dreikathi jump on me for WANTING to kill townies in lynches, it's less preferable than lynching Dreikathi, but much preferred over lynching someone who has contributed thoughtfully to the game. The game has to progress and people who are silent aren't helping that at all.

What we DON'T want is Aldric to have to give us a deadline and have to rush a vote or end up with a No Lynch, which is going to be worse on the 2nd Day than it would be on the 1st Day.

Aldric

I don't believe I've posted where we stand yet!

Periluna: (1) Ilyon

Llok: (1) Meskhenet

Aryanne: (5) Minarael, Omei, Macavity, Etrigan, Demarcus

Meskhenet: (1) Llok

Minarael: (2) Teani, Periluna

9 votes to lynch.

Omei

With Aryanne's previous post, my suspicion of her is slightly diminished - enough so that I'm going to go ahead and...

Vote: Minarael

This isn't to say Aryanne's clear, I just think Minarael has become more suspicious.

Minarael

While not a terribly unusual response to my personality, lynching, taking me out would cost you a townie, and one of the few who is vocally analyzing the behavior of suspects.

Aryanne reduces your suspicion by... accusing people other than Piper? 

Demarcus

Here are our mystery non-voters, unless I miscalculated:

Aryanne
Piper
Moirean
Toz
Aren

Draiman

EDIT: Had the wrong other-D person. Damonicus got ganked last night, Draiman is still alive! Hooray!

Llok

Actually. I wanna vote Aren.

She's insidious, not outright accusing to be in the limelight. But not quiet enough to be hiding. Manipulating and guiding affairs.

UNVOTE THE LONG NAMED GIRL

Vote: Aren

Demarcus

Llok said:

Actually. I wanna vote Aren.

She's insidious, not outright accusing to be in the limelight. But not quiet enough to be hiding. Manipulating and guiding affairs.

UNVOTE THE LONG NAMED GIRL

Vote: Aren

Aren the character is a guy. Don't know about the player.

Teani

Yay, internet until I fall asleep from complete exhaustion! 

I'd just want to say that the reason some people are suspicious because they're talking is because of how they phrase their words, while some of those who are not talking are suspicious because you have nothing whatsoever to work with. There's a perfect word for this in Swedish (lagom), which basically means somewhere in between good and bad, at the point where it becomes just perfect for the occasion. It's a tricky word to explain. <.<

And I still think I'll hold on to my vote after reading through what's happened.