Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE

Ezalor

Illidan said:

Moirean said:

I've already dealt with Ellenia in her role as Keeper and she was reasonable and prompt with the issue we discussed. I'd say give her a chance before criticizing her on forums. It's also a bit rude. If the remark was in a self-aff she opened up, that would be one thing, but it seems a bit unfair to just criticize her.

Considering this same person has notoriously and repeatedly set bounties in the City of Bloodloch on people's heads to settle her own personal squabbles, and the squabbles of her friends isn't very 'reasonable' at all. Not only that, but someone who likes to instigate conflict, die for it, and then issue (often repeatedly) after dying. Finally, and my personal favorite, uses homophobic language towards someone, then decides to issue them because they called her out of her name as if she hadn't done anything wrong in the first place. 

The reputation that you build up for yourself has a habit of sticking with you. Especially when you're only continuing to drag your own name through the mud on a daily basis. 

Actually, just to input here, I dunno how it was in the past but I found Ellenia reasonable/conservative with bounties. Jensen walked into Bloodloch 4 or 5 times to try to kill Marharet. Since Duiran stacks bounties for stuff like exterminating (Marharet had 5 stacked bounties on her I believe) I planned to stack bounties on Jensen too but Ellenia asked me to remove them.

Just my 2 cents. Otherwise, I shall continue to watch this development with my favourite popcorn gif.

Erzsebet

1) The culture stuff  does have a time frame--it just keeps getting pushed back because the people who agreed to do the thing stopped playing and haven't been answering messages and such and I can't find anyone else to replace them. I message Azrael (teh overlord in charge of such things) and Lyl with updates on that when there's any change. Time frame on the year whatsit is starting on Variach this coming year, which you'd know if you asked about such things ICly, but you don't.

2) I'm not complaining because OHNO, I WON'T HAVE TWO anymore. I'm fine with that, I pretty much log on Kira exclusively to do Culture stuff, and to work on the guild path stuff, not having her Ministry Job isn't really the issue.  I'm complaining because I -do-, do said stuff. There is no IC reason to just arbitrarily replace them-- Erz has been working on stuff for Dev, Kira's been working on stuff for Culture--it wasn't that long ago she raised 1.5 million gold in one fundraiser, if I didn't do the work, it'd be one thing, but I do. And I've already talked to Ellenia about this ICly, at least as Erz. I'm saying that the manner in which she did it is ridiculously alienating to those people who actually want to do things for the city IMO. It's not that she has a ton of people tripping over themselves to do Development paperwork, she just arbitrarily decided that mixing things up would be good for the city, and I think the manner in which she's choosing to do that is rather bad form.

3) Kira and Erz are both main characters, not alts. Though I have been playing the former less because Kira gets less points, it certainly isn't as low as 3% of the time, and now that there are going to be four houses and we don't have to obsess over the shit, it'll go way up again, just as well.

4) @Macavity : It's a rage, not a huge debate. I really don't think we need a thread titled 'Ellenia's Leadership flaws/skills'. I don't think it's the end of the world that she's Keeper or anything, I was originally just saying, that while her one encounter with her may have gone well, that hasn't necessarily been the experience of everyone else.

Illikaal

Ezalor said:

Illidan said:

Moirean said:

I've already dealt with Ellenia in her role as Keeper and she was reasonable and prompt with the issue we discussed. I'd say give her a chance before criticizing her on forums. It's also a bit rude. If the remark was in a self-aff she opened up, that would be one thing, but it seems a bit unfair to just criticize her.

Considering this same person has notoriously and repeatedly set bounties in the City of Bloodloch on people's heads to settle her own personal squabbles, and the squabbles of her friends isn't very 'reasonable' at all. Not only that, but someone who likes to instigate conflict, die for it, and then issue (often repeatedly) after dying. Finally, and my personal favorite, uses homophobic language towards someone, then decides to issue them because they called her out of her name as if she hadn't done anything wrong in the first place. 

The reputation that you build up for yourself has a habit of sticking with you. Especially when you're only continuing to drag your own name through the mud on a daily basis. 

Actually, just to input here, I dunno how it was in the past but I found Ellenia reasonable/conservative with bounties. Jensen walked into Bloodloch 4 or 5 times to try to kill Marharet. Since Duiran stacks bounties for stuff like exterminating (Marharet had 5 stacked bounties on her I believe) I planned to stack bounties on Jensen too but Ellenia asked me to remove them.

Just my 2 cents. Otherwise, I shall continue to watch this development with my favourite popcorn gif.

I was referring to her trying to set unlimited bounties on myself (and others) for claiming her bounties that were set in Enorian/Duiran because she actively participated in raids. This was when Tralendar was Sec Min. Of course, he'd remove them, and keep telling Ellenia she wasn't allowed to do that, but she'd keep doing it anyway. She was also hexed (repeatedly) for said abuse of power. 

Edit: And no. We didn't claim them via raiding BL, being within LoS, or anything of the like to otherwise warrant bountying someone for claiming your bounty.

Ezalor

Welp, before my time! Just adding in my personal experience.

Erzsebet

@Illidan both of mine are on the list of those being replaced, and when Erz asked Ellenia why, the answer she got was 'you've been in the position for many decades, time to let some newb that doesn't know what they're doing with it have a turn' basically.

This makes me rage in general. Like. Even if it weren't my ministries, that's a dumb reason to replace someone. Though, regarding mine specifically, I could kinda see replacing Kiralla, since it's a lot more rare to see her come around, though the evidence of her being around is a lot more visible than all the paperwork of Development, and if that were the reasoning, that's one thing entirely, but if it's just OH YOU'VE DONE THIS A LONG TIME AND ARE GOOD AT IT, AS A REWARD YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT ANYMORE--that's dumb, IMO.

Illikaal

I'd like to see her reaction if someone used that logic to contest her. 

Mastema

The ministers have been meh for a long time, and the city is -pun time- dying slowly to the boredom of the same old repetitive events/actions. Therefore, I see no reason to not shake it up and get people doing things in the city again. Hell if we get active ministers that responsed to enquires it might fix the lack of activity in the city. I know I am not the only person who feels the city is becoming ever more silent and retaining less people for long periods due to inactive leadership.

Erzsebet

Again, my problem is that she's replacing active people, not just inactive ones that don't do anything. Seems counter productive.

Fenrir

The one reason Fenrir isn't joining Bloodloch is because she's in charge there. I don't like how Fenrir was killed simply because I was afk eating for 10 minutes.

I especially don't like after a polite message to her inquiring why I was killed being replied to with "Readlog bloodloch 1 4".

Screw that noise.

Damonicus

Looking at todays logs, news and forum posts I came up with this conclusion:

The four people being replaced are Kylira(Steward/inactive), Xarian(Ambassador/inactive), Kiralla(Crimson Conductor/Inactive) and Ez(Develop/CityDisfavored for lying to CL's).

For me, I see no reason why not to replace the above 4 for those very IG reasons.

Azrael

I know that I'm going to catch flack from coming to Dourif's defense but in regards to the city disfavor I have to. Because I'm not skeered to air dirty laundry at all!

This entire issue came about because of this ridicules rule that Az/me has apparently made up that citizens have to get Overlords approval before they can request permission of the Bloodloch City Council to contest any given Overlord. Again, I note that I apparently made this rule up and nobody has ever been told that they could not contest because they did not receive permission prior to requesting permission. (Insert eye roll here.)

From my point of view....

Erzsebet had first requested permission to contest Dourif, because he's been fairly dormant, but is now making a good return and was denied by the Overlords (that made up rule - of which Az was never approached by other Overlords or the Keeper to even get a vote), she then decided to contest Borscin and she requested and received Azrael's approval after a discussion where she noted to him that she had already received Dourif's approval. After speaking to Dourif, he notes that he would only give his blessing if she received the blessing of the other Overlords. (Again, this is all from the rule that I made up.) Ellenia  voted no. Lyl voted no. Then Erzsebet posted her intent to contest to the BCC and all poo hit the fan. Dourifs disfavor stemmed from learning from me that Az was informed that he had already given his blessing as a method of receiving Az's blessing. So yeah, in his defense, I would disfavor anyone for manipulating my words as well.

I truly wish I were the type of person who logged everything, kept every message and saved every "readlog" that I viewed, just to show the level of ignorance this entire ordeal has went through.

But again, given what I know, Dourif was truly in his right to disfavor for this instance.

*****************************************************************************************************
As to the replacing of the ministries, I have to admit that Erzilla (which I have coined and copyrighted and demand a quarter from any person who uses it going forward), have both been doing great at responding to messages that Az sends asking for progress on different events and what not.

Haven

I didn't mean to spark a debate on this. I was just genuinely curious as to why she'd be upset OOCly to possible corruption / evil in a city playing those roles.

Anywho, guys I think that's enough of a derail. If you want this split into a new thread Is be happy to oblige even though I don't think it'd be productive at all.

Erzsebet

I did not manipulate his words. Period. He never said I required all of the overlords--he said if I was active and defending the city and contesting borscin rather than himself, I could contest. I believe I mentioned his stance to Azrael and to Ellenia pretty much verbatim, but I did NOT go to Lyl and say anything regarding such. I didn't tell Lyl anything, when I had three of five agree to support under conditions I could fill, I posted intent. And it pisses me the hell off that people keep lying about it. It also pisses me off that he's going to follow me around forums and disagree with my posts any time this gets brought up, but it's complete bullshit.

So much fucking rage.

Seir

It wouldn't matter if Bloodloch passed a law stating that you need an Overlord's permission to contest. You're not allowed to enforce that rule because I'm pretty sure it breaks a game rule. You're not allowed to put any restriction on contesting, I'm pretty sure. Removing someone for contesting is likely a sure way to get yourself in hot water.

Xavin

They've been kindofsortof enforcing that rule for years.

Erzsebet

Eh. It's not the denial of contestation I'm raging about. I have IC reasons for putting her name forward for doing so, but in general, I don't care about the overall council denial for my request. I'm pissed that my rank got dropped because he decided to be a lying unicorn.

Also rage that it's even possible to one-disfavour drop my rank, when I've been favoured at cityrank 6 by the Keeper at least six or so times, and by assorted Overlords on top of that. There should be a buffer, like there is with all the other ranks.

Aldric

Seir said:

It wouldn't matter if Bloodloch passed a law stating that you need an Overlord's permission to contest. You're not allowed to enforce that rule because I'm pretty sure it breaks a game rule. You're not allowed to put any restriction on contesting, I'm pretty sure. Removing someone for contesting is likely a sure way to get yourself in hot water.

I do agree that this is kind of a strange law that shouldn't be in existence. If somebody steps up for an election and gets the majority vote, they're obviously doing something right. I'm not exactly sure what would happen in the case that somebody illegally contested and won, but you'd think the results would speak for themselves.

Moirean

Eh, in Spinesreach when the city leaders said that the citizens had to vote me off the council, they just kept having people contest until I finally lost. Same in Sentinels when certain people didn't want me as GM, we had nonstop elections until I went dormant. So, technically, people can just use the mechanics right back - speaking from experience, however, I don't think either side wants that drama. It's annoying at the least for the city and it can be frustrating or even depressing for the person facing the constant re-elections. The law seems to be kinda inviting that situation and I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet! :P

Ezalor

Actually the "law" serves to stop that very situation from happening. You aren't allowed to start an election unless you get permission (actually it goes deeper than that - you aren't even allowed to post asking for permission to start an election).

It's not a set-in-stone law but there's an actual law written that if valid objection is given then you cannot run. There's also a line about the Keeper's word being law.

On the plus side, it stops constant elections and musical positions. On the minus side, stuff takes forever to get done and it's very easy for those currently in power to stay in power no matter what.

Judging from recent events though I am pretty sure we will never see this phantom law again.

Macavity

oh never say never!  lol

Moirean

The thing is, that is a PLAYER law. Mechanically, people can still contest, so the law doesn't really prevent anything from happening and opens the door for a situation like the one I described.

Ezalor

Ah, I have no idea what would happen in that case since I've never seen it happen. I imagine a unicornstorm would be raised culminating in lots of CDFs or outright expulsion though.

Kiyotan

I don't know about the rest of you, but I practically squealed with glee at the very thought of a unicornstorm. It's raining unicorns!

Nola

I can't bring myself to squeal about the possibility of being impaled multiple times and crushed by majestic creatures with very long pointy horns raining down around me.

Its almost like a bliss-filled nightmare, though. Like how if the world was ending from a deadly meteor shower, you could at least admire the stars falling from the sky as they destroy the earth and all the people on it.

Moirean

Ezalor said:

Ah, I have no idea what would happen in that case since I've never seen it happen. I imagine a unicornstorm would be raised culminating in lots of CDFs or outright expulsion though.

You can't eject people on the government, or people who are participants in an election.

Ezalor

Moirean said:

Ezalor said:

Ah, I have no idea what would happen in that case since I've never seen it happen. I imagine a unicornstorm would be raised culminating in lots of CDFs or outright expulsion though.

You can't eject people on the government, or people who are participants in an election.

Right, but I mean after the election settles. I suppose it is entirely possible to pull a huge coup as well though.

Moirean

Or just tie things up with constant elections. Like I said, I'm surprised that the law hasn't backfired, yet. It seems like it has the potential for a unistorm.

Macavity

actually this has happened in Bloodloch in the past....what happened was the Keeper or an Overlord would post on the news boards and announce that the person who contested was not given permission and no one should vote for that person since they broke the laws.  There would be slander involved as to insure the person who did it, would think again about contesting and if they did the right way to get permission this little stunt would be remembered and thus would not be given permission to contest.  

Macavity

a little rage with the fact there has not been a month of March 2013 posted yet!   I WANT TO HEAR MORE NEWS ABOUT DEVELOPMENT!!  LOL

Erzsebet

Feeling...a touch overwhelmed at this latest merge. I was expecting like. Half the people we got with this merge. Good gods.

So many people.

What's more. So many -loud- people.