Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE

Benedicto

Ishin said:

Me and @Ilyon do a lesser against @Kinder and @Calipso ....

They run, we take it.

@Benedicto, @Connor, @Calipso come back. Okay nbd, we split, regroup like 2 rooms away, get our priorities straight, come back in to fight.


Oh shit, suddenly it's like 2v4, 2v5, or higher.

WTF? Just two bros out for a little 2v2-2v3 action. The rest is just uncalled for.

Rage, man. Rage.

If you want to get into a comparison then I'll start posting a log of every time it's happened the reverse. I guarantee you that it happens more to us than it does to you.

But even then, to start getting all angsty about it and blaming me on an OOC clan like I hand in it's organization I just think is unnecessary.

I wasn't going to come. Serrice says over Frontline that Kinder (no mention of Calipso) has been knocked off the lesser by you and Ilyon. I team up with Conner (neither of us talking to Calipso) to come at you 2v2. We turn up, start taking the fight to you. Calipso shows up (I don't control her actions.) Meanwhile, in the middle of the combat spam Serrice tells Valingar. So Valingar shows up without any prompting from me or Conner. Then the rest of the lighters who know a lesser is up decide to show as well.

You say that it was a convenient "excuse", but when it so frequently happens the other way around and with a lot more organization on the Darkies part it really is a case of pot calling kettle black. Here's the whole thing...

Hadoryu

Can we just realize that people don't go into a fight with the malicious intent of making it unbalanced and unenjoyable for the other side?

There is actually a pretty simple reason for people going in to fight: they want to accomplish the objective that is at stake.

The side with the more fighters will usually end up swarming the other in those circumstances, but the reverse will happen if there happen to be more fighters online from the other side. You can't actually tell people NOT to fight for objectives they have any sort of stake in.

Ilyon

Yeah, it sucks, but these things happen, c'est la vie.

Several of us have been abstaining from fights to ensure more even numbers when needed, and the same may or may not be true for the other side - sadly we have no way of knowing if someone is intentionally staying away, or just AFK. Can't have it all, I guess!

Valingar

(the Front Line): Serrice says, "Ishin + 3."

I was actually originally planning on sitting this one out. Likely because I'm a great sportsman at heart, but equally likely because I was feeling lazy as hell. Then I saw the above line, and thought that Conner and Bene could use a hand. It turned out some of those 4 were actually ours, which is a shame-- but being outnumbered happens a good bit more to us. I can guarantee that one.

That said, my personal contribution to that PK was limited to a single overwhelm which stole the last kill. Delicious xps.

Irruel

@haven
I forget what client you use, but if it is Mudlet or CMUD, the client should have kept a backup for you.
If you use the module manager in mudlet, instead of the package manage or normal profile, it is a bit trickier to get your grubby fingers on the backup - but it is still there.

PM me for help if you need it.

If you're a filthy musher or tf-er, I can't help you. But someone else might.

Periluna

He's a filthy Musher

Ashmer

@Ishin:

 

Just ask @Valingar about all the times he's showed up against steep odds and made an absolutely lethal nuisance of himself.

 

Besides, the band @Daskalos and The Newbies put on a raucous show last night and demonstrated what happens when a smaller team of (generall, seriously no offense intended) less-practiced combatants get their unicorns and pegasi together. Seriously, @Daskalos, I'm not usually a fan of that kind of music, but that particular set was pretty sick. There was even a guest appearance by @Trager!

Calipso

Benedicto said:

Ishin said:

Me and Ilyon do a lesser against Kinder and Calipso ....

They run, we take it.

Benedicto, Connor, Calipso come back. Okay nbd, we split, regroup like 2 rooms away, get our priorities straight, come back in to fight.


Oh shit, suddenly it's like 2v4, 2v5, or higher.

WTF? Just two bros out for a little 2v2-2v3 action. The rest is just uncalled for.

Rage, man. Rage.

If you want to get into a comparison then I'll start posting a log of every time it's happened the reverse. I guarantee you that it happens more to us than it does to you.

But even then, to start getting all angsty about it and blaming me on an OOC clan like I hand in it's organization I just think is unnecessary.

I wasn't going to come. Serrice says over Frontline that Kinder (no mention of Calipso) has been knocked off the lesser by you and Ilyon. I team up with Conner (neither of us talking to Calipso) to come at you 2v2. We turn up, start taking the fight to you. Calipso shows up (I don't control her actions.) Meanwhile, in the middle of the combat spam Serrice tells Valingar. So Valingar shows up without any prompting from me or Conner. Then the rest of the lighters who know a lesser is up decide to show as well.

You say that it was a convenient "excuse", but when it so frequently happens the other way around and with a lot more organization on the Darkies part it really is a case of pot calling kettle black. Here's the whole thing...

To help further clarify what occurred (and the actions of that mysterious but lascivious Calipso girl), let me tell the tale:

Calipso was walking along the mhojave searching for leylines, her instincts informed her that a lesser was soon to appear. She senses a lesser nearby and finds out it is in Vilmo. As she arrives, she finds Kinder has already begun to tap it by himself, stating he came across it during his travel. Seeing no immediate danger and and few awake at the time, Calipso curses kinder for taking her prize and decides it would attract less attention if she allowed Kinder to be by himself, and so goes back to her random wandering. Calipso then hears that Kinder was pushed off by two bad men and, cursing her carelessness, rushes back to try and assist. Arriving at the scene, she finds the strange Kelki known for his attractions towards imps, @Benedicto, as well as the lovable holocauster and ruler of the Black Market @Conner at the scene and a fight.

Seeing the scythes swinging and dismembered limbs flying, she dives into the fray swinging with her fists and swatting with her tentacles to try and push the enemy back. Once the fighting was done and dust settled, she decides to not make the same mistake and so stays at the lesser until it is finished, assuming enemies may return. Thankfully the rest of the event was quite peaceful, and the misson was completed successfully.


P.S: The 'dark' associated orgs are known for their high numbers, it really is not a surprise if the 'life' orgs attempt to monkey-pile on a lesser trying to grip onto it incase of an incoming zerg.

Toz

As I've said before, there'll never be a 'fair' lesser. That's why when @Ishin sends people home from leylines because we have too many, I kind of

If you want balanced combat, start a Team FFA or something. Getting ylem > fair fighting.

Seir

Because he wants to actually encourage spirit folks to fight so he can have an adversary. Most spirit folks won't bother when the odds are consistently and constantly against them because of population disparity. It isn't fun going to a lesser and then immediately melting to a ton of damage because one side is able to effortlessly pull a ton of numbers compared to the other. 

If the two sides had comparable populations, I'd be inclined to agree with Toz. However, having logged into Seir and alts on peak times for both sides, there's a pretty clear population imbalance and newbie retention issue going on. If there's going to be a 'hook concept' class for Spirit, I hope it comes soon though I'm fairly stumped as to what it could be with the greatest pop culture references in vampires and lycanthropes already being present with vampires and werewolves being allowed on the same side.

Aarbrok

I can sum up the PK atmosphere in one GIFset

  

Seir

Another way to encourage spirit to fight would be to actually implement effective server side curing like two games have in IRE thus far. The availability of systems in Aetolia is lacking in the sense that publically available systems will generally be lacking in the face of modified/updated Citadel in the hands of experienced coders. 

What I find funny is that Imperian, where the server side curing has originated and thus opened up combat for everyone, only created server-side curing to begin with as an answer to Aetolia's Firstaid, which was intended as a newbie aid. Now we have two games implementing it, with Jeremy admitting that he originally hated the idea but saw how successful it made the combat scene in Imperian.

Next would be to actually give some enticing themes for the spirit side and a recognizable hook concept that will bring in newbies and fighters both. Lastly, some actual focus needs to be done on the combat mechanics of the game. I look over logs and hear from individuals that it's always the same classes going to fights or being used to fight at all.

Ilyon

Seir said:

Because he wants to actually encourage spirit folks to fight so he can have an adversary. Most spirit folks won't bother when the odds are consistently and constantly against them because of population disparity. It isn't fun going to a lesser and then immediately melting to a ton of damage because one side is able to effortlessly pull a ton of numbers compared to the other.

That's cyclical in nature. These days the spirit side is usually fielding bigger teams than we do.

Seir

Have logs to show this? I'm seeing and hearing differently.

Trager

I-.. Are you kidding? Or is that some attempt at humor? I can not count how many times we either go to LOOK at contesting a tapped lesser or are immediately PUSHED off a lesser. We -normally- field the same 4-6 people almost every time. It seems more oft then not that we look away for one moment and then there are 9+ sitting on the lesser.

Granted, this does not happen all of the time, but it sure happens enough that I would bet almost anything on the fact we get outnumbered far, far more then dark side does.

Ilyon

Oh, I'm not kidding. Usually the difference is something like 4-6 or so, but to show a somewhat more extreme case (this log is from yesterday):

[spoiler]
[22:28:18.65 command] sw
[22:28:18.84 line] Skirting the Vashnar mountains.
[22:28:18.84 line] A smattering of clouds fills the sky, lacing it with spiderwebs of grey. A rotting skeleton has been piked here, its bony hands crossed as it warns against the passage to the east. Like sharp teeth, a few stalagmites reach up from the ground here. A powerful desert vulture is circling overhead maliciously.
[22:28:18.84 line] You see exits leading east, west, and northwest.
[22:28:18.84 prompt] H:6369 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:19.39 command] scent
[22:28:19.57 line] You tilt your head back and deeply inhale any scents from the air.
[22:28:19.57 line] You pick up the faint scent of Sarita at Grassland nearing Vashnar mountains.
[22:28:19.57 line] You pick up the faint scent of Irruel at Wide tunnel.
[22:28:19.57 line] You pick up the faint scent of Erzsebet at An ascending trail inside the mountain.
[22:28:19.57 line] You pick up the faint scent of Alee at Wide tunnel.
[22:28:19.57 line] You pick up the faint scent of Konai at An ascending trail inside the mountain.
[22:28:19.57 line] You pick up the faint scent of Feichin at An ascending trail inside the mountain.
[22:28:19.57 line] You pick up the faint scent of Gemma at Amid the dunes.
[22:28:19.57 line] You pick up the faint scent of Calipso at Wide tunnel.
[22:28:19.57 line] You pick up the faint scent of Benedicto at Vaulted hall.
[22:28:19.57 line] You pick up the faint scent of Valingar at Vaulted hall.
[22:28:19.57 line] You pick up the faint scent of Daskalos at Wide tunnel.
[22:28:19.57 line] You pick up the faint scent of Conner at Wide tunnel.
[22:28:19.57 line] You pick up the faint scent of Blaze at Bloodloch West Gate.
[22:28:19.57 line] You pick up the faint scent of Jami at Wide tunnel.
[22:28:19.57 line] You pick up the faint scent of Pythona at Entering Bloodloch market district.
[22:28:19.57 line] You pick up the faint scent of Ezalor at A cavernous study.
[22:28:19.57 line] Balance Used: 2.32 seconds
[22:28:19.57 prompt] H:6369 M:5687 B:90% [csdb e-]
[22:28:21.90 line]
[22:28:21.90 line] You have recovered balance on all limbs.
[22:28:21.90 prompt] H:6369 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:23.23 line]
[22:28:23.23 line] Your skin begins to slowly smolder and char beneath the assault of sunlight.
[22:28:23.23 prompt] H:6069 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:30.21 line]
[22:28:30.21 line] Your vision goes white as the horrible sunlight pierces your eyes.
[22:28:30.21 prompt] H:5867 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:37.21 line]
[22:28:37.21 line] Your skin begins to slowly smolder and char beneath the assault of sunlight.
[22:28:37.21 prompt] H:6012 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:44.38 line]
[22:28:44.38 line] Your skin begins to slowly smolder and char beneath the assault of sunlight.
[22:28:44.38 prompt] H:6030 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:45.93 command] wt irruel alee calipso bene valingar dask conner jami
[22:28:46.12 line] (Web): You say, "Irruel alee calipso bene valingar dask conner jami."
[22:28:46.12 prompt] H:6157 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:47.31 line]
[22:28:47.31 line] (Web): Dourif says, "LOL."
[22:28:47.31 prompt] H:6157 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:50.16 command] speak orc
[22:28:50.16 command] speak orc
[22:28:50.16 command] wear 86211
[22:28:50.16 command] wear 86211
[22:28:50.16 command] say voltda >:|
[22:28:50.16 command] say voltda >:|
[22:28:50.16 command] remove 86211
[22:28:50.17 line] (Web): Dourif says, "10 of them."
[22:28:50.17 prompt] H:6157 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:50.33 line] You shall now speak in Orc.
[22:28:50.33 prompt] H:6157 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:50.33 line] You shall now speak in Orc.
[22:28:50.33 prompt] H:6157 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:50.33 line] You are now wearing a sulfurous amulet.
[22:28:50.33 prompt] H:6157 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:50.38 line] You are already wearing this item.
[22:28:50.38 prompt] H:6157 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:50.39 line] You furrow your brow and say, in Orc, "Voltda."
[22:28:50.39 line] You quickly utter the phrase and see a sulfurous hole open in the ground before you. Without hesitation, you jump in.
[22:28:50.39 line] Within the Death Caves.
[22:28:50.39 line] Magical darkness enshrouds this area. A cup lies here, chiseled from obsidian. A delicate silver goblet lies here. There are 80 plain wooden vials here. There are 28 gourd vials here. There are 8 Ascendril Academy vials here. There are 2 emblazoned elements vials here.
[22:28:50.49 line] You see exits leading north, northeast, east, southeast, south, southwest, west, northwest, and up.
[22:28:50.49 prompt] H:6157 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:50.49 line] You must wait a short while to speak again.
[22:28:50.49 prompt] H:6157 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:50.49 line] You remove a sulfurous amulet.
[22:28:50.49 prompt] H:6157 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:50.49 line] You aren't wearing a sulfurous amulet.
[22:28:50.49 prompt] H:6157 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:50.49 line] You shall now speak in Aetolian.
[22:28:50.50 prompt] H:6157 M:5687 B:90% [csdb eb]
[22:28:53.25 command] farsee alee
[22:28:53.44 line] You close your eyes momentarily and extend the range of your vision, seeking out the presence of Alee.
[22:28:53.44 line] You see that Alee is at Wide tunnel in an unstable section of Moghedu.
[22:28:53.44 line] You detect 9 other people in that location.
[22:28:53.44 line] Equilibrium Used: 0.93 seconds
[22:28:53.44 prompt] H:6369 M:5667 B:90% [csdb -b]
[22:28:54.40 line]
[22:28:54.40 line] You have recovered equilibrium.
[/spoiler]

I'm not complaining or anything, just saying that playing the "we're always outnumbered" card was accurate a month or two ago, but today? Not so much.

Dourif

You could always come and add another number to help out the lifer side, @Seir. Instead of raging about the game you don't play.

Seir

I always enjoy when someone pulls the "you don't play" card. I don't play because of the exact reasons I frequently cite as I don't have a masochistic desire to subject myself to an environment that doesn't bring me any enjoyment due to patterns that frequently don't change despite the solutions being fairly simple, just slightly time-consuming on the coder end of things.

The reason I bother to comment at all is because despite all of this, I did find some enjoyment out of the game at one point and I feel that Aetolia's roleplay atmosphere is by far the best out of any MUD out there and that if it put that on the backburner, if only temporarily, and committed some real focus to the combat mechanics and balance of the game, it'd be perfect and I'd really have no reason to play elsewhere. I hold out hope for that and that is why I criticize. Not to mention, I don't "have to play" in order to be able to read logs, hear the same gospel that others have preached on both sides, or read the forums to determine the same patterns, criticisms, and complaints of everyone else. I played Aetolia for the greater part of 2-3 years and in IRE as a whole for about 11-12 years and my experience doesn't suddenly become invalid because I choose to go inactive for a few months. Let's be honest here, things in Aetolia don't change on such short notice in such a short span, otherwise we wouldn't be rehashing the same arguments made months ago over and over.

Serrice

THAT IS A LOT OF VIALS IN THE DEATH CAVES.

/me makes grabby hands.

Toz

This is why we don't let the peasants down there.

Daskalos

I almost took those vials, and then I thought 'what if those are those weird bugged vials you can't fill' and then I had nightmares of trying to separate them out.

Calipso

Seir said:

Another way to encourage spirit to fight would be to actually implement effective server side curing like two games have in IRE thus far. The availability of systems in Aetolia is lacking in the sense that publically available systems will generally be lacking in the face of modified/updated Citadel in the hands of experienced coders. 

What I find funny is that Imperian, where the server side curing has originated and thus opened up combat for everyone, only created server-side curing to begin with as an answer to Aetolia's Firstaid, which was intended as a newbie aid. Now we have two games implementing it, with Jeremy admitting that he originally hated the idea but saw how successful it made the combat scene in Imperian.

Next would be to actually give some enticing themes for the spirit side and a recognizable hook concept that will bring in newbies and fighters both. Lastly, some actual focus needs to be done on the combat mechanics of the game. I look over logs and hear from individuals that it's always the same classes going to fights or being used to fight at all.

@Seir has brought up something that I have pondered over a few times myself. The concept of the 'hook' factor for lifer compared to undead.

When considered at a core level, Aetolia is a Mud designed around a dark world where vampires not only exist, but have built their own city and government and wish to bring all under their fold. The vampire concept is a strong and lustful one and has always been aetolia's number 1 hook. However, it also seems to have stopped in its tracks.

Now when considered on the other side of that coin, I've always been surprised that a stronger 'rival' concept was never introduced. Usually when we hear of vampires, what do we think to rival them? Slayers. From Buffy to Van Helsing to vampire literature (went a bit OOC sorry) we have seen the rivalry and dominance between those that stalk the night and those that hunt the nightstalkers. Admittedly there also has always been a Vampire vs Werewolf genre but I think that ship has sailed.

Our vampire mechanics expand on the original and old concept of vampirism; meaning having to do with some mysticism. From transforming into bats and mist to sleeping in coffins to afflicting mortals mentally, to summoning undead minions, so naturally one would assume this concept would be played on both sides. Let us say that the Slayer concept was brought into play, we would see: Staking through the heart, silver bullets, holy water, a form of martial fighting technique, and so forth.

Guess that's my musing.

Serrice

IDK, I think of werewolves.

Calipso

Serrice said:

IDK, I think of werewolves.

shh, werewolf concept is new. Stick to oldies. :x

Trager

When it was in fact the bears that held the 'Anti-Undead' fanaticism for so long. I think Calipso's idea definitely has some merit. I know that is why my first characters and my main for a long while was Darkie. It really is the -hook- for Aetolia.

Setne

Syssin/Sciomancer were what drew me to Aetolia. I don't like vampires or undead and being forced to go undead was the reason I originally stopped playing my first Aetolia character a few years ago.

Moirean

I'm not really weighing in on the debate and I certainly don't know the intricacies of stuff behind decisions for and against server-side curing, however I will say that Imperian having autocuring was a direct and primary factor in me deciding to play a newb there and throw out some cash at the game. I didn't want to have to make/buy a whole curing system and I wanted to go dabble elsewhere for a bit. I tried out MKO, and considered going back to Achaea and Lusternia, but I just kept getting turned off by the concept of making a system. That's not money I would have just spent on Aetolia instead, either - 100 credits for a newb goes a lot further and is a lot harder to get than 100 credits for Moi. So, overall, I spent more money on IRE because the autocuring let me bounce in and try out a new game without spending a ton of time/credits getting a system.

Irruel

Addendum to @moirean

Imperian's autocure + balance queue lets people pvp with bad connections (3G/international), and using weak clients (phone/tablets for example).

As my life changes, I can see myself playing there for exactly those reasons.

And none of the arguments against it actually ring true. None.

Calipso

Systems have always been a turn off for new players, especially the idea of having to purchase and perhaps maintain it. When I first started muds, I abhorred the idea of coding, and till now I dont get into combat much because I simply dont have those specially designed systems.

It's one reason why I enjoyed playing MKO. It is such an easy and simply system to use that an advanced coding system isnt required.

Toz

Auto offense requires coding too, and you're going to be at a sizable disadvantage if you don't have an offense as well. Though I'm not sure if I advocate auto-attacking being built into the game or not.