Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE

Angwe

Ezalor said:

Eh, I think you really underestimate the amount of work it takes to actually get into PK. It isn't that people don't want to get into combat, it's that learning to build a system up for yourself is -hard-. It's not much fun for someone to go spam macros with firstaid on and never hope to make a dent, hence people who don't have the time/desire to learn and script an entire system tend to just avoid conflict altogether or only join in group fights where their macro spamming might actually make a difference. 1v1 is scarce because the amount of people capable of scripting well enough to have a chance in 1v1 is scarce.

In the end PK is just one part of the game and if people don't want to engage in it they shouldn't be forced to. Fact of the matter is the majority of Aetolia's playerbase isn't into PK. I really want to get into it and I'm trudging through Mudlet and Lua now but when/if I manage to get something fully functional together it's still just one part of the game for me, and not even close to the biggest one at that.

That is indeed a large barrior that doesn't exist to such an extent in any of the other IREs I've played. In MKO, Matawa is the standard system for Mudlet, freely available on the forums and kept updated by the community at large. Achaea has a plethora of cheap, constantly updated systems, OmniPave and SVO being popular there. Vadi still maintains a Lusty system and I think one for Imperian as well, though I've never played the latter. Here, the pickings are very scarce, and unless you're planning on shelling out a stupidly large amount of cash, you're going to have to update any system you do end up with on your own.

Ezalor said: 3 credit bits

Wait, really?

Daskalos

1) I don't like group combat, but I recognize it happens. If group combat happens, it happens. I much prefer a solo fight.

2) Mount killing is lame, but as was once told me, "They're not going to hold themselves to higher standards, why should you?"

3) I'm sorry, but one death? Come on. It's negigible experience, that can be made up in minutes.

4) Sure, you shouldn't be forced to PK, but just like I don't judge you for your RP, you don't get to judge me for my PK. I think you're weak, and people that RP strong character without being able to back it up are just delusional.

5) Ezalor, you have the same curing system I do. There's no reason you can't get deeper into PK.

Aldric

The "one death is negligible" thing is horribly redundant at this point. Yes, the experience doesn't matter much, I'm not discounting that, but if somebody has no interest in combat why should they be subject to it because you decided you wanted to be a troll to try and goad people for PK? 

If I want to go bash, I want to go bash. I don't want to start bashing, sit and let you kill me, go through the death sequence, then go back to my place and start over. If you were bashing somewhere besides Xaan that's time that can be used by others to start picking off the mobs before you get a chance. It's a pain. 

I'm perfectly fine with dying, provided there's a legit reason. If I participate in ciem, or a focus battle, sure, it happens. If I'm making shouts taunting people, yes, it's expected. 

But if the reason for dying would be, "Well, I said something to Daskalos that could be vaguely considered PK cause while he was fishing for it." I'm not okay with that, simply by virtue that you're so desperate for fights with people that have no desire to do so.

EDIT: Saying "I don't judge you for your RP, don't judge me for my PK" is ridiculous at best. Attacking somebody forces them to PK. Basically, you're saying, "Well, people shouldn't be forced to PK, but I'm going to initiate something that gives them no choice but to anyway."

Ezalor

Curing is great and all but there's the other half of actually trying to kill people. And yeah, I had the curing part taken care of but it's still taking me a hellish long time just to begin working through an offense as someone with no prior coding background at all. People working through both from scratch would be faced with an immensely more daunting task. The barrier to entering competent 1v1 PK is very high, as Angwe mentioned.

I don't get where you're getting this judging thing from. I love PK and I really want to get into it. I have nothing against people who want to start conflict. In fact, I find that Aetolia is far, far better about it than every other IRE MUD. This is the only one I haven't been randomly PKed in as a level 30 newb just because someone wants to start a "fight." People seem less grieftastic here; you aren't ever forced into conflict unless you willingly make yourself a part of it and, whether this is through admin-policing or self-policing, it's nice to have. I like that the PKers here stick to it. I don't think I've ever said a word condemning PK or PKers. I'm just pointing out that there are a myriad of reasons why someone would want to avoid PK and that they're well within their rights to do so. It isn't the focus or "main quest" of Aetolia.

Daskalos

@Aldric - Then keep your mouth shut. Look, if you don't want to give me cause, then act like your ability. If you can't make me shut up, then you shouldn't be mouthing off. Take Grasa, for instance. Makes public post, hasn't been seen since. The problem is that you have people that, for lack of a better term, have gotten too big for their britches, and want to mouth off\act badass without actually being able to back up those words. You can pretend to be as ruthless as you want to be, but unless you're able to back it up, it's just words. Mechanics and all of that.

@Ezalor - Curing is 9\10th's of the battle. The only way to try offenses is to get out there and do it.

Konnorn

You try to make PK sound sooooo easy, but it's not. That my rage of the day. That and being sick, but that's a rage for the other thread.

Daskalos

It's not easy, it does take work, but there are LOTS of people willing to help, too. Haedyn is a great resource on your side, I know Xarian used to be, others. I'm willing to help anyone on my side that wants to learn.

Haven

A venom based offense on an Infernal or Paladin was by far the easiest to learn/jump into PK in my opinion. Once you got the curing system, you just needed to learn how to venom stack and just go from there. Not sure what Templar combat is looking like or if the venom route is viable anymore with the changes but the Carnifex class has a relatively simple and easy to learn entry point still.

If you want to get your feet wet in PK, I'd suggest learning/picking up the easier classes first before trying out the more difficult classes. Anything that focuses on limb damage as the primary mode of player-killing in my opinion would be a complex/difficult class if only because of the dreaded pre-restoration technique. Overcoming that is a feat in of itself.

Konnorn

Daskalos said:

It's not easy, it does take work, but there are LOTS of people willing to help, too. Haedyn is a great resource on your side, I know Xarian used to be, others. I'm willing to help anyone on my side that wants to learn.

You do realize that I have been on your side of the fence for months, right?

Daskalos

Have you ever asked me for help? Yes, I know you're on my side, just like I know Ezalor is on that side and is who I was thinking of.

Konnorn

Ah, yes, I was just told I misinterpreted that. <.< Sorry!

Aldric

Daskalos said:

 I'm willing to help anyone on my side that wants to learn.

This is more OOC and likely meant for the other thread, but I rage that this mentality is very prevalent here. Sides exist in-game, to our characters, not to us as players. Why can't we all get along and be cool outside of the game too? 

It's not even just this post in particular, it's on the forums all the time. I've found that even little things like talking to people OOCly on IM or even through the game in webs/OOC clans tends to lower drastically if you're on a different side unless you were really, really close before. 

Konnorn

@Aldric, couldn't agree more. Sides are ooc as well, which is pretty bad, considering that this is a game after all, and we are players, not our characters.

Daskalos

Eh, I help anyone. But, approaching someone IC and saying 'help me with combat' is kind of a non-starter. That being said, if you have questions OOC, I don't care. I've helped lots of people.

Ezalor

Mmhm, I'm very much aware of how great a resource Haedyn is . Soon, Daskalos! But even then I've played these MUDs for 10 or so years and this is my first attempted foray into PK. It really is a hugely daunting obstacle to get into it and it's unrealistic to expect everyone to be enthusiastic and willing about it.

I do get your frustration about people talking big and not doing anything to back it up though. If I had my way, no vampire would bother responding to you anyways :P. If you dig into BL's history Abhorash has expressed displeasure before about "stooping to the level of mortals" and dignifying their posts with a response. 

Kiyotan

Daskalos said:

The problem is that you have people that, for lack of a better term, have gotten too big for their britches, and want to mouth off\act badass without actually being able to back up those words. You can pretend to be as ruthless as you want to be, but unless you're able to back it up, it's just words. 

QFT. Not gonna flame and name specific names, but Jesus H. Unicorns, it is becoming obscenely prevalent lately. If you're not going to PK, that's -fine-, but don't act like a big shot in shouts and public posts and market tells (of all places!) and then hide in a city or haven 24/7. Unless of course it's your RP to be a big-mouthed coward, in which case: good show.

Fenrir

You know @Aldric , @Daskalos is 100% correct with the simple statement of 'Then keep your mouth shut."

If you don't want the consequence of having someone gunning for you, then don't act tough and such tothem. Don't even talk to them. If you just flat out ignored Daskalos and didn't attack him, literally cannot touch you. Hell, you're even allowed to attack him if he raids your city and he can't attack you later for it. Hell, if he's raiding your city and you don't attack him he can't touch you!

This next part is also 100% true and it's not just Aetolia. It's across the entirety of IRE games.

The problem is that you have people that, for lack of a better term, have gotten too big for their britches, and want to mouth off\act badass without actually being able to back up those words. You can pretend to be as ruthless as you want to be, but unless you're able to back it up, it's just words.

Illikaal

Oh god, every drop of the above. Those kinds of people are the types that like to throw out issues when you kill em for running their mouths too. What's sad is that the person who kills them for spewing verbal diarrhea is likely the one to be punished ^My rage

Eleanor

I'm probably going to regret adding my two bob but here we go anyway. Daskalos, maybe you're not getting the PK you want because you're sort of becoming a one trick pony. This is just my opinion from what I've observed, of course- but what I'm seeing is that it's not at all exciting or interesting to anyone- the guards get set off and everyone looks at their watches and says 'oh hey, is it that time already? Daskalos again. That bloke really needs to find himself a girl.'

Also, on the topic of PK, some people just really don't like it. Even if I go to a leyline and am thus asking for PK and well aware that it's going to happen, the experience of it ruins my whole day- even if we win! So that's why I stay out of it (and why you never see me cracking lessers). Just don't like the badfeels. I know you're pointing your argument at the people who do ask for it and expect not to have it or whatever, but I thought I'd pitch that P.O.V. into the playing field as well.

Konnorn

Eleanor said:

Also, on the topic of PK, some people just really don't like it. Even if I go to a leyline and am thus asking for PK and well aware that it's going to happen, the experience of it ruins my whole day- even if we win! So that's why I stay out of it (and why you never see me cracking lessers). Just don't like the badfeels. I know you're pointing your argument at the people who do ask for it and expect not to have it or whatever, but I thought I'd pitch that P.O.V. into the playing field as well.

I admittedly am one of the people who do foci and hate PK. I fight at lessers and yes, I die a lot. That part rarely bother me, unless I am attacked after aura is gone. Then I can get upset.

 

However, when it comes to minor foci and someone attacks me, I try to stick it out until I get all the ylem and then run. If I don't think I can get all the ylem without dying, then I run before that. And I will keep on running if being chased and if the chase continues too long, with hits making sure my aura is still up, I will hide in a city until the aura is gone.

 

Some might see this as bad form, since ylem=open pk. But I'm not saying you can't kill me. You just need to catch me. I won't stand still and let someone take me down, since that's basically what would happen. I can't fight after all. I enjoy doing foci because I love the running around sapience, making sure I know which way to turn and when. I know most areas like the back of my hand and I like making sure I don't slack. That's why I've been doing it. Not because of the pk.

 

So yeah, there are people out there doing foci who don't like pk, but actually enjoy the mechanic of the whole thing itself, without the fighting. I they could give us something similar that's not open pk, it would be awesome. (And no, gathering mists just isn't the same. Gathering mists is hunting and I know at least I need to be in the right mood to even go out for an hour.)

Eleanor

Well, my point was more "PK Ruins Elea's Day So That's Why She Doesn't Learn To Fight And Become Daskalos' Nemesis" than anything actually to do with leylines. Might be going a bit sideways on the topic if we start talking about good and bad form re: leylining.

Lin

Which is a shame because with your arties? I mean dayum.

Meyvitch

If more PK vs. griefers is going to be discussed, can y'all take it to a new thread before this not only hops the tracks but crashes in a fiery wave ala "Unbreakable"?

Fenrir

I think everyone who likes PK will agree with the following statements:

There's nothing wrong with people who don't enjoy PK. Do what makes you feel happy and bash all day and craft and get involved in politics and roleplay your face off and sit on Maghak's throne and etc etc.

The only issue is when people who refuse to fight act tough and mouth off at people. If you're going to act like you're a death on legs ruthless pinnacle of badassery you are going to get called on it if you can't back it up with combat prowess. OR when people who engage in things like ylem and Foci and Ciem and then act like they're being persecuted for breathing when people arrive to fight them.

Everybody knows these games need multiple kinds of players to make them a fun and dynamic world. We need PKers and RPers and Bashers and probably even MUDsexers. Just don't pretend to be one of those categories unless you're going to put out. Especially the Mudsexers.

Serrice

Definitely the mudsexers.

Valenae

Eleanor said:

I'm probably going to regret adding my two bob but here we go anyway. Daskalos, maybe you're not getting the PK you want because you're sort of becoming a one trick pony. This is just my opinion from what I've observed, of course- but what I'm seeing is that it's not at all exciting or interesting to anyone- the guards get set off and everyone looks at their watches and says 'oh hey, is it that time already? Daskalos again. That bloke really needs to find himself a girl.'

Also, on the topic of PK, some people just really don't like it. Even if I go to a leyline and am thus asking for PK and well aware that it's going to happen, the experience of it ruins my whole day- even if we win! So that's why I stay out of it (and why you never see me cracking lessers). Just don't like the badfeels. I know you're pointing your argument at the people who do ask for it and expect not to have it or whatever, but I thought I'd pitch that P.O.V. into the playing field as well.

D'omg, yes! I completely agree! Honestly idfc about coding or messing around with systems. I will not pour $1000 or even $100 into my character, nor do I really feel inspired to put in the work to earn enough credits to make a difference. I'm not going to go out of my way looking for a 'physical' fight in Aetolia because that's not what interests me. I like occasionally logging in and participating in varying degrees of roleplay/political strategy. I don't think anyone has a right to tell me the way I immerse myself is incorrect. 

A different topic but: If someone is being a douche to me I don't see the problem with saying, 'Pipe the hell down' because verbal altercation ! -= physical conflict. It means, literally, stfu. I think there are tender egos in this game and its annoying. 

Dhar

I cannot contain my rage for our position on topmudsites. Let's start using it again!

Daingean

I got my first events post naming in all my years of playing IRE games!

.. For a railroad event that I really had no say in, besides being the city leader at the time.

I had a post wherein I dissected the events post and explained why this is in rage rather than love, but.. well, I've already mostly talked about my feelings here.

Aldric

I RAGE at the banner ad for Aetolia that shows up on TMS. HNNNNG. Can't we continue with the whole letting Eleanor do all the cool stuff and let her make something that actually fits the game and would make people want to play?

"Sparkling Vampires? Think again."

No. No no no, dear -god- no. No Twilight associations with Aetolia ever, especially in an advertisement.

"Chuck who? He would fall against the least of the Daru."

..Wat.

"All other Dwarves everywhere? Beardless, elf-like pansies."

What are you even.. HNNNG.

Eleanor

I'd be up for doing something, but I think that's actually someone further up the ladder than Raz in charge of that choice.

Also I would have to be bodily restrained from... well, this.