Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE

Phoenecia

It's kind of depressing that more and more I'm find that based on what people have been saying, the Light side can be a miserable, unfun place to be, and a lot of the fun people end up switching sides.

Sarita

Reaching out with gnarled hands, the shadow of Sarita claws at you viciously.
H:5051 M:4999 B:100% [eb]
You bleed 253 health.
H:4798 M:4999 B:100% [eb]
With a soft hiss, the shadow of Sarita launches herself at you, battering you in a frenzied flurry of strikes.
H:3239 M:4999 B:100% [eb]
[Server closed connection.]


...thanks mudbot.

Nola

Nola is finally back from Nola now.

Not sure if more angry about:

1. IronCon's possible cancellation and the unreasonably short deadline for whether or not enough tickets can be bought. People need time to recover from the expense of the holidays.

2. @Damariel returning while I'm out of town and unable to be here for it.

Rowena

Daskalos said:

Who said PK and RP are mutually exclusive? They're not, and while I don't know the situation, that's MY rage - people that consider PK to not be a part of RP. If you did something to get murdered, then get murdered. It's how you handle it that decides who wins. See @Piper for tips on that.

I agree with you, even as a non - com. 

If you want to assist in defiling / slander a god / do something doochebaggy killing you fits RP fine. It's rage at your actions, it's punishment because let's face it, you're far less likely to do it if you're being hunted for it. It's just how the world works. You die you get over it. 

If they kill you repetitively because you can't fight back, that's different, that's just griefing. Death is a perfectly fine punishment for certain actions from an RP standpoint that fits many doctrines. 

Haven

I think her point was lost beneath the flamebaiting.

She's basically saying that since she -is- a non-com, she'd appreciate it if those that are experienced with combat would at least send a few emotes her way before cleaving her in half so as to at least give her a bit of enjoyment from the interaction before you get your own rocks off with the violence.

Rowena

Or you could just... not give people a reason to kill you? 

It's actually not that hard to do and the fact that people wont just emote at you and will kill you is a pretty strong incentive not to do something dumb like.... destroy an orders shrines. 

Areka

Grumpgrump when folk sidehop without a word and you don't even get any interesting RP with it, despite an ample opportunity having previously presented itself. 

Daskalos

For the record, I wasn't flamebaiting. My point stands:

If you don't want to be PK'd, don't do things that could end in PK as a solution. PK is a hardcoded solution to solve RP, and is a part of RP. My rage is that people consider the two mutually exclusive. Take our fights, Haven. It's always a bunch of grim, macho 'I hate you' RP for about 5 minutes until  one of us (usually you ) snaps and attacks the other. And  then we fight it out. Rowena gets this.

The second part of it about talk to Piper for details? If you kill her, she laughs it off. You literally take the 'thrill' of the kill right out of the PK'ers hands. PK only bothers you if you let it.

Katszia

Rowena said:

Or you could just... not give people a reason to kill you? 

It's actually not that hard to do and the fact that people wont just emote at you and will kill you is a pretty strong incentive not to do something dumb like.... destroy an orders shrines. 

Not sure how shrines got in the mix here. My original post had nothing to do with that. And, there was no slandering or "doing something douchebaggy".

To clarify, after the last couple months of an (AMAZING) lot of conflict RP with Light on one side and Dark on the other and Kat in between she finally gave in and went dark. She didn't insult or scream at anyone on the way out (okay well I take that back, she did shout back to Omei after Omei's shout and she got zapped for that - PK that's TOTALLY JUSTIFIED and I laughed). She didn't rub it in anyone's face. She just kinda packed her bags and hit the road. My irritation was when her own father showed up in the middle of the impromptu event in Chakrasul's temple and started demanding answers and she's like *glances at Chakrasul, Iosyne, Omei, Damariel* ... "Now's not the time." So he gets forcibly removed when the crazy everyone pitted against everyone fight breaks out (which she actually removed herself from -because- she doesn't fight - and I had no skills on top of that ) and he comes back a few minutes later, summons her into a icewalled off room, gives -one- say of "You're no daughter of mine" and promptly attacks her.

"PK is a hardcoded solution to solve RP" - yeah, but some RP would be kinda nice.

Now that the explanation is out of the way (jeesh was that really necessary?) I have never been against getting PKed if it's justifiably earned. And this is a fairly universal IRE argument between people who can PK and people who well, really can't (I suck at it, it's just a fact of life) but... there are a lot of people (not ALL PKers) who will take the smallest willy nilly excuse to turn something into PK. My main argument is this: I get that you love your PK, that it makes a lot of your game enjoyable. Good for you, go for it (be reasonable). -I- like my roleplay. Why should I be denied something that takes effort that I enjoy just because someone can hit a button (or several or whatever for the sake of more petty little arguments), has artifacts and hits like a truck, and can walk away feeling all macho. What does that even get out of it? Some brief triumph and pleasure for them and just a "meh" feeling from me. At least give people who enjoy RPing a little effort is all.

Amberlea

Ooooh! Ashmer's in the forest! Let's go RP and bait a fight!

Slowly following him around, don't wanna track because then it's too obvious I didn't stumble upon him on accident....

Crap, he left the area.... well, let's keep going...

Hrm, where is he? Iernian Fracture? Unicorns.... I don't even know how to get there

Somewhat related sidenote: RAGE that as a lycan I wanna have howls up if I duel someone, but don't want to have them running the whole time we are trying to RP, or walking past newbies and breaking them

Rowena

You don't get attacked for no reason. If you do just get jumped multiple times it's something you can issue them for and if you have organizational ties at the least they'll become an open target for revenge from whoever you know that likes killing and is good at it (Angwe regularly gets hunted down for this reason).

People kill you because the solution to problems in a world full of death and violence is usually.... death and violence. Not always, but even in a well RPed conflict like some that Tina has had recently regarding Lady Chakrasul there is going to be bloodshed before one side is willing to negotiate because without it they wont see the need. 

Some people kill just because they enjoy player combat but player killing definitely is not mutually exclusive to RP or even lazy RP. Even though I'm a terrible combatant I felt obliged to kill someone once out of duty, so I attacked them and got killed. Then they started taunting me and it evolved into an interesting RP debate. If someone kills you for RP reasons, instead of complaining about it, use it. Use it to rile up your organization against theirs, use it to justify your hatred of them, work it into your own RP. They are not just doing it mindlessly for experience like Sigfried used to, if they were they'd be a shrub like him. 

Phoenecia

I have a much more cynical view on all this. The brutal fact of the matter is that most players here will use pretty much any excuse to get PK. Oh, you RP and don't really fight? You're an easy target, and when you die, the person who killed you will gloat to their buddies about it, and probably rub it in your face. They're not going to respect the fact that you don't care to PK.

Backtalk to someone? They'll use it as an excuse to PK you instead of talk it out. Someone has a grudge against you? They'll use it as an excuse to jump you RL weeks or months later after the fact without warning. Someone just plain doesn't like you? Guess what? You've got a target on your back.

Pretty up your words all you like, but actions speak louder, and from what I've seen, most people immediately jump to PK as a solution to everything. Why? Because it's quick and easy, and PK is ALWAYS a solution to EVERYTHING. Why waste ten minutes or more throwing out emotes when you've got a system and an instant win button against someone who can't fight as well as you can?

Rowena

A counter argument would be that if you were walking around baiting people on the street in real life, girl or not, someone will eventually hit you. It's a reason not to aggravate someone that might be threatening like say a skinhead.... or a vampire. Vampires RP being bloodthirsty, Shadow RPs doctrines of strength and might. Strength in undeath, power in fear and despair. The Carnifex literally DO believe violence solves everything, that is there thing. 

If you were walking around in the real world with these kinds of people, you could expect to fear for your life if you couldn't defend yourself to the point they wouldn't try harming you. Bloodloch isn't a nice place, it's full of torture and slaves. Have you been to vilimio fields? The place farms humans. 

The fact you don't just die for looking at a hostile vampire the wrong way is because the game is NOT just an uncompromising PK fest. 

Alexina

In IRE games, you can get jumped by pretty much anyone, anywhere in the game, within a very small window of time after they farseed you or otherwise found your location. Most other muds simply do not have these features (being able to locate anyone from anywhere or traversing an entire continent within the timespan of 10 seconds or so). This means that, compared to other muds at least, there are no relatively safe areas. If you leave your city, you can (and most likely will be) attacked by those who wants you dead, anytime and anywhere.

Phoenecia

It still doesn't change the fact that many of the things you just mentioned are ways in which lots of people use to farm PK. Yeah, sure, the game has dark themes and violence and bloodshed are supposed to be common, actions have consequences and blah blah blah. But resort to PK every time, or more often times than not, the people who don't appreciate it or were expecting something a little more substantial will be less inclined to do anything with you.

Ashmer

Amberlea said:

Ooooh! Ashmer's in the forest! Let's go RP and bait a fight!

Slowly following him around, don't wanna track because then it's too obvious I didn't stumble upon him on accident....

Crap, he left the area.... well, let's keep going...

Hrm, where is he? Iernian Fracture? Unicorns.... I don't even know how to get there

Somewhat related sidenote: RAGE that as a lycan I wanna have howls up if I duel someone, but don't want to have them running the whole time we are trying to RP, or walking past newbies and breaking them

O hey! Amberlea wanted to RP! Let me bail on the Fracture and... nowhere to be found. RAGE.

Areka

The same happens in the roleplay/political sphere where people will metagame, whine and grab to both satiate their egos and ruin another's game play. It's a people thing, not a PK thing. PK's short-lived at least.

Phoenecia

Since PK was the subject here, that was all that was mentioned. But people do make other's lives miserable through roleplay and politics too. And in some cases, PKing ability also reinforces people's ability to crush people in RP and politics too.

Ezalor

I've never really had a bad experience with people farming PK for random reasons. If you try to stand up to or talk tough to a combatant, then yeah, they will probably smack you down to prove a point. This discussion was had in this thread already like a year ago, but the point is if you want to act tough or antagonize people you're going to have to be able to back it up.

Amberlea

Ashmer said:

Amberlea said:

Ooooh! Ashmer's in the forest! Let's go RP and bait a fight!

Slowly following him around, don't wanna track because then it's too obvious I didn't stumble upon him on accident....

Crap, he left the area.... well, let's keep going...

Hrm, where is he? Iernian Fracture? Unicorns.... I don't even know how to get there

Somewhat related sidenote: RAGE that as a lycan I wanna have howls up if I duel someone, but don't want to have them running the whole time we are trying to RP, or walking past newbies and breaking them

O hey! Amberlea wanted to RP! Let me bail on the Fracture and... nowhere to be found. RAGE.

This is like playing phone tag!

Ashmer

Amberlea said:

Ashmer said:

Amberlea said:

Ooooh! Ashmer's in the forest! Let's go RP and bait a fight!

Slowly following him around, don't wanna track because then it's too obvious I didn't stumble upon him on accident....

Crap, he left the area.... well, let's keep going...

Hrm, where is he? Iernian Fracture? Unicorns.... I don't even know how to get there

Somewhat related sidenote: RAGE that as a lycan I wanna have howls up if I duel someone, but don't want to have them running the whole time we are trying to RP, or walking past newbies and breaking them

O hey! Amberlea wanted to RP! Let me bail on the Fracture and... nowhere to be found. RAGE.

This is like playing phone tag!

@Amberlea: I know, right!

 

And, for the C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

Phoenecia said:

I have a much more cynical view on all this. The brutal fact of the matter is that most players here will use pretty much any excuse to get PK. Oh, you RP and don't really fight? You're an easy target, and when you die, the person who killed you will gloat to their buddies about it, and probably rub it in your face. They're not going to respect the fact that you don't care to PK.

Backtalk to someone? They'll use it as an excuse to PK you instead of talk it out. Someone has a grudge against you? They'll use it as an excuse to jump you RL weeks or months later after the fact without warning. Someone just plain doesn't like you? Guess what? You've got a target on your back.

Pretty up your words all you like, but actions speak louder, and from what I've seen, most people immediately jump to PK as a solution to everything. Why? Because it's quick and easy, and PK is ALWAYS a solution to EVERYTHING. Why waste ten minutes or more throwing out emotes when you've got a system and an instant win button against someone who can't fight as well as you can?

To be fair, this is not always the case, at least that I've seen. There are a few people that in my experience will use PK as a first-resort solution (and, in certain cases I'm one of them), but mainly people are willing to play something out as long as you provide a backdrop and weighty enough interactions. Tells are useful for this, or going back to someone after they've killed you once. Like, when @Trager popped into my room after I killed him for like the third time or something crazy (the dude's awesome tenacious), I was like HEY! RP OPPORTUNITY!

 

It turned into this bad ass series of interactions.

 

Tra-ger, where are you? We miss you. Come back.

 

Edit: Oh, on two more notes.

 

One, I encourage y'all that wreck someone the moment they do something silly go back and RP after. It's super fun.

 

Two, @Phoenecia: My cure for people who PK to resolve stuff is to let it happen. Like, when I had no system, and I was balls-deep in this whole story arc, there was someone who was like "I will destroy you." Ashmer was like... huh, that might be fun. "We will give you this opportunity." The dude dropped me in like three rounds, and RP ensued free of PK! Was good, and worth the .02% experience or whatever.

Sessizlik

I just bribe myself out of pk with muffins. Doesn't Always work, but most of the time!

 

My rage? Most fun people are around during the time of day I shouldn't be around, which mess up my sleeping. I can pull it off now, but not too much longer.

Nola

With all these posts on PK and the like, all I can see from it and have to say is:

So basically everyone is saying that the many aspects of Aetolia are like the many aspects of life, where unfair, unjustified or unreasonable acts of any kind of made. 

Rashar

As someone who gets PK'd a lot for what I do RP-wise, (and doesn't mind).. 

Every time I have been PK'd, aside from a lesser, I can look back and find a reason for it. And it doesn't always involve someone coming and actively RPing with me. But you can't play a character as in-depth as people play them in this little word world of Aetolia and not expect there to be consequences. 

The only reason people complain about this is because we live in a society where people count on law and order to protect them from those who are more powerful, or less tolerant. Aetolia doesn't really work that way, beyond the walls of a city.

Like @rowena said, there are legitimately wicked people running around here. Bad guys aren't teddy bears. I mean, think about it. The kind of evil we have here is the kind that really doesn't -need- a reason to start killing or maiming. So eh.

And what does getting killed a few times cost you? Some experience, a few minutes staring at the death messages?

Alexina

Rashar said:

And what does getting killed a few times cost you? Some experience, a few minutes staring at the death messages?

This attitude here sort of bothers me. No one cares about spending a few minutes approaching the mirror or losing a bit of experience. It's when people come after you again and again, essentially preventing you from hunting or roleplaying or doing whatever else you wanted to spend your playtime doing. Unless you turn off all your curing and just lie down to die for as many time as they have 'cause' to kill you, your whole gaming experience is going to suffer. While this does not happen frenquently, there has been times when I felt like playing Aetolia caused more frustration than enjoyment because I kept being targetted by PK'ers over and over again.

Rashar

I can see that. I guess I haven't really experienced that kind of situation.

I honestly can't think of an instance where I've been killed and considered it to be more times than necessary or anything like that. Except maybe the once when a certain someone was waiting outside of the death place and just whacked me.

*peer you know who you are*

Daskalos

The issue people have with PK is it hurts their egos when they run their mouth and a bigger fish comes along and gobbles them up - everyone envisions themselves the hero and when that heroism is threatened, they get defensive. Being PK'd after trying to play the Hero threatens that, and people don't like it, so rather than deal with it IC (i.e. by PK'ing back, learning to PK, or through political\social attacks) they come to the forums and try to build up sympathy that they were picked on. You weren't picked on, you brought it on yourself by doing actions that provoked a roleplayed response.

Just because you don't like the way the other person plays their role doesn't mean it's not roleplay. I think @Irruel said it years ago that people can use premotes with effectiveness to an extent that it's just as good as using the EMOTE command. I would also say that some of my most vicious battles and most destructive paths has not been through PK, but rather, through political machinations.

And no, I didn't kill @Katszia. I dunno who did, but it wasn't me, but this attitude bugs me. Just because you don't like the way roleplay is being handed out doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that the other person can do it. Also, I scoff at the notion that PK is the majority of what I do on Daskalos, and find it more than a little insulting. I spent maybe 25% of my time working on stuff to do with PK, the rest of it is hunting, hanging out with friends (I refuse to call it 'RP' because everything done as Daskalos is RP), chatting, shopkeeping, political duties, interviews with novices, et cetera. It's just that PK is the most visible.

Haven

Honestly, as far as I can tell based on the posts, nothing was done wrong here. She was only expressing how bummed she was that she got X play style when she wanted at the very least a taste of Y. Granted, the complaint could've gone with a little less sting but it's the rage thread and I expect people to be running high off emotions. It's why I take most things with a grain of salt. Still, I got the gist of her complaint. No harm, no foul so long as rules aren't being broken imo.

Anyway, here's my own two cents on the issue: PK and RP are two sides of the same coin. They represent two distinct but equal play styles. It's not a poor attitude to PK people without sending an emote somewhere. It's just a different play style. Would an emote or seven have been nice to have before being sent off to visit Dhar's halls? Sure, but it by no means should be a requirement or an expected standard. In truth, you'd be better off just learning to identify who plays in what style and gravitate towards those that fit your style. Embrace or at the very least respect and tolerate the different styles whenever you do cross paths though.

Anyway, I think that for the most part, Aetolia's community has come a long way over the years and is generally a good one.

Slyphe

Alright guys, while it's been fairly okay with only subtle jabs at each other since Omei has said anything, we're going to end this derail here before it gets out of hand. If you really, really feel it is something worthy of discussion feel free to make a new thread, but personally I don't see it doing anything but spiraling out of hand sooner than later.

Xiuhcoatl

The moment when you figure out the best method of killing someone with the carnifex class is just a weaker method of death tarot. God, I should have never given up infernal for this terrible class. It's like a slap in the face every time I see it on possible classes to switch into I just get more and more mad. And as I play it, I get more and more mad  at the class in general. So many terrible things in it, that when I'm playing it, I just start looking away to my other monitors. Like, holy unicorns is it just annoying to even deal with. What other class COSTS YOU MORE BALANCE WHEN YOU MISS AN ATTACK. NONE. No other class costs you EXTRA BALANCE ONTOP OF THE FAILED ATTACK FOR HAVING MISSED THEM. NONE OF THEM. The penalty for missing the attack is the miss, NOT EXTRA BALANCE COST BECAUSE LULULULULULUL TOP KEK. No, what's wrong with you? Oh my god, is the class so annoying. Hey, you have 5 seconds to hit them again or else you'll get your soul drain reset. Oh, btw, that 5 seconds is from the last time you hit. OH BTW YOUR HIT USES HALF OF THAT BALANCE COST, AND RAZE USES 1.9 SO YOU ONLY HAVE .6 SECONDS LEFT TO ATTACK. ALSO LAG WILL TAKE UP .3 SECONDS OF THAT. SO YOU HAVE .3 SECONDS AFTER YOU REGAIN BALANCE TO ATTACK OR YOU'RE GOING TO GET A RESET OF SOUL DRAIN. THAT'S WITH A GOOD CONNECTION. IF YOU HAVE A POOR CONNECTION LULULULULULU TOP KEK UNICORN YOU. Worst class ever. Someone needs to get slapped for even coming up with those timers. Like, incredibly hard, multiple times across the face with a mental gauntlet. That's horrible. How could you even be thinking that in your mind and say, yeah, that's a good idea. HERE'S A HINT THAT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA. THE CLASS IS HORRIBLE. HOLY UNICORNS BATMAN. THE BEST METHOD OF KILLING IS A WORSE VERSION OF DEATH. THAT'S THE BEST IE THE FASTEST WAY THEY COULD KILL SOMEONE. ALSO THEIR HOUNDS ARE HORRIBLE. THERE IS NO PASSIVES FOR THE CLASS. LET'S LOOK AT EVERY OTHER CLASS EVER. REGULAR SOLID HITS PLUS SOLID RELIABLE PASSIVE IS A SOLID CLASS. WHERE THE UNICORNS IS THE PASSIVE BATMAN. WHERE? JESUS CHRIST YOU SHOULD JUST GET AN INDORANI TO GIVE YOU THEIR ENTITIES. THAT WAY YOU'LL HAVE A DECENT PASSIVE SET UP. YEAH, MARRY THE UNICORNS OUT OF THE INDORANI AND CABALISTS. THEY'RE YOUR ONLY HOPE CARNI SNOW. 

I really hate carnifex. Like, infuriatingly badly. Really wish I could get infernal back. Guess I'm stuck with a useless horrible terrible UNICORN TIER PIECE OF UNICORN WORTHLESS LITTLE BETA UNICORN OF A FILTHY DIRTY UNICORN CLASS.