Mildly Irritating: Aetolia's Pet Peeves

Ayastia

I think that's less 'i don't want to' and 'the culture of the game demands this'. I dunno. Anywho, almost time to get ready for work.

Tetchta

"The culture [foisted upon us by] the game" is a pretty lackluster excuse, honestly. The Admin do demand that orgs fall within certain parameters (as seen with the administration doing heavy intervention with both Bloodloch and the Dominion right now to make the orgs better), but the width of the scope for player autonomy within those parameter is absoultely enormous. There's nothing about the game that demands that Enorian be passive and reactive. It's not consistent with the lore, its history, or its current beliefs. So if that's the excuse, someone, possibly many someones, need(s) a wakeup call.

Bulrok

Culture can be changed, and should if it's making things not fun.

Tetchta

Ehtias

Someone complaining about abuse using an IC thing but also thinking that surrendering a holy war to reenable mass dusting is fine.

Bulrok

Globe shenanigans they definitely reported and did not abuse is fine. Self nerfing after they were tipped off about the next mirror is fine.

Xenia

Having to remember everytime Ayastia posts anything in this thread:

Saltz

Those are some high quality baits you got right there.

I'll bite.

Globe shenanigans we picked up from Shadow originally, respected it, and did better than them in the end. Going to give props to @Seurimas and @Borminchia, they made us work for it a ton.

Surrendering holywar was a meme idea, but it was only offered in response to declaring a holywar to disable mass dusting and deny player participation to an ongoing rp-pk event as a whole. Which is fine clearly.

Yeah, I self-nerf'd Sacrifice. I've always thought it was a problematic ability and I did not get tipped off about the mirror release. What are you implying here, the admins fed me information and I used that to nerf my own class? None of my suggested nerfs went through and ability is still the same with 2x cd now.

You don't know what I report or I do not report, we share no mediums, we never talk. You just speculate.

Tetchta

Saltz said:

Surrendering holywar was a meme idea, but it was only offered in response to declaring a holywar to disable mass dusting and deny player participation to an ongoing rp-pk event as a whole. Which is fine clearly.

This is really what this sounds like to me (especially since the admin apparently took it seriously enough that they felt compelled to make an OOC announce post about it) :

Edit: I was torn between the above and this, plz discuss which is better.

Saltz

@Tetchta Well, I've no issue with being transparent about it now. I mostly offered it as an idea in the web, which we all laughed about. But apparently someone, (you know who - that's no longer in this game) brought it up within the OTS channel (That I am not a part of), I did not know people were serious about it until the Announce/Warning like the rest of the game.

I still stand by it though, declaring holywar to avoid consequences versus surrendering holywar to reimburse compensation. I do not see the difference between them, personally. But yes, the idea originally was just a joke.

Bulrok

If 'someone else did it first' is a good enough excuse to do it then Nipsy is fine. And in your own words, that should be blah blah I'm not using your words, you see where this is going, right?

Don't be a hypocrite. If it's bad, don't do it. Don't go through an elaborate set of mental gymnastics to justify it. You abused things, you've encouraged abuse of things, and you're on here lecturing people about abusing things. Pick one.

I suppose I'd have to provide receipts to prove the Sacrifice tidbit, and sadly I don't have enough, but I think the timing is proof enough for people to make their own assumptions, especially after all the heat that skill has gotten in the past.

Edit: If we want to keep going back and back and back to pointing figures at who did what first, the first abuse I witnessed with Orrery globes originated on Spirit by someone who doesn't play anymore. We don't need to blame them. We can all be responsible for our own actions instead.

Ehtias

Holy War still has consequences, declaring isn't avoiding consequences. You still lose shrines.

Saltz

If 'someone else did it first' is a good enough excuse to do it then Nipsy is fine

I do not get how this is related to running with the globe or using wormholes with the globe or flying with the globe? Like, that was the name of the game, and very well intentional design, I do not get how those are comparable at all.

it is evidently clear, and admitted, that people are assuming things I do not do or do not say in my place and then connect the dots in their own heads to call me a hypocrite. That's not really my fault.

You abused things, you've encouraged abuse of things, and you're on here lecturing people about abusing things.

This is a serious accusation, you have to prove it.

Bulrok

The consequence they wanted was being able to demoralize a few players by dogpiling on them, Ehtias. Like I said earlier, we can't even lose right without them throwing a fit.

Tetchta

Aren't you supposed to declare holy war during religious conflict? Like isn't that why it's there?

Bulrok

You said here:

Saltz

Ehtias said:

Holy War still has consequences, declaring isn't avoiding consequences. You still lose shrines.

Yeah, clearly. Why did you declare the Holy War then? Not to fight less people and not to avoid losing the shrines? I've heard that Bamathis Order vastly underestimated Ethne and admitted making an error with picking them as their target. So, please, be honest about it.

Saltz

Yes, I said, we did better than you by running with the globe within the rules of the game. I did not say I abused anything nor I encouraged abuse. You are yet to prove your claims.

Bulrok

Oh we're arguing semantics on abuse.

No no, I don't think I will do that. Arguing semantics with spirit is 100% bait every time.

Ehtias

How did we vastly underestimate anything, Bama full order is one of the smaller ones we knew we were most likely going to lose since holy war is largely a pve numbers game. We've done multiple holy wars with like our 2-5 active full members depending on which war versus like 10+ full member orders. Also part of the reason it happened was people kept showing up enmasse to defend others who had defile aura against bamathis versus bamathis order members.

Saltz

Very well then, I will leave you alone with your echo-chamber. Where you can project freely and assume things in my stead, be on your merry way about what Saltz abused yesterday, what he's doing to hurt the game now and his evil plans for tomorrow. Thanks for making me not regret my decisions of not being a part of the official discord and using the forums to an absolute minimum.

Iazamat

Are we really going to defend 15+ people ganging up on an order of 3 to 5 people? Especially after the side eye Ivoln's order (5 people, give or take?) got for declaring war on Dhar when they didn't know he didn't have an order anymore? Seriously? Holy war exists for a reason, and using it when the odds are overwhelming is fair and practical use of the system - especially when it is over religious differences and RP. The idea that there was something malicious afoot is baffling, especially considering Bamathis lost 75% of his shrines and lost the war. The only difference is that it got relegated to a handful of people instead of the ones that originally initiated the RP, because they didn't have the foresight to declare holy war.

You're kind of telling on yourselves here.

Tetchta

A public forum of discussion is the opposite of an echo chamber. Some of us, at this moment, as a group (or rather a handful of individuals that keep recurring) are being a bit foward with our opinions, but that does not make this an echo chamber. This is about as far from an echo chamber as you can get in this community.

Ictinus

OK it's time to move on folks.

Mjoll

Saltz said:

Ehtias said:

Holy War still has consequences, declaring isn't avoiding consequences. You still lose shrines.

Yeah, clearly. Why did you declare the Holy War then? Not to fight fewer people and not to avoid losing the shrines? I've heard that Bamathis Order vastly underestimated Ethne and admitted making an error with picking them as their target. So, please, be honest about it.

I made the decision to declare holy war when I saw the 30 person assist line kill the first of my 5 only allies. I debated between Omei, Ethne, and Dhar. My character is spiteful and saw Iesid as the ringleader so decided against Omei. I try very hard not to be a bully and knew Isia was putting in a real effort to finish her 200 run, and Sryaen was the only other Dhar member so decided OOCly that wasn't the way. That left Ethne, and my character had a grudge against one of the representatives anyway, so it felt right.

Nowhere to anyone did I suggest we underestimated or even thought we might have a chance to win. Everyone who asked, and even the news post I made to the congregation before it kicked off was "Hey we're gonna lose, but let's fight tooth and nail."

Then we fought a holy war against a celani

And won as many fights as we lost against a bigger group.

And I stand by my decision. If anyone has a problem with me swerving a 30v5 by using the mechanic that should have been used in the first place, you can [BE NICE - ICTINUS]


EDIT: OH SHIT I WAS TYPING THIS AND DIDN'T SEE THE BIG MAN POST!
Just felt the need to defend myself.

Alela

when i give away one of my extra style scrolls to help someone out, but then they all get wiped...

Nipsy

Even though Ictinus said move and and we love and respect him.

RE: The God Curse.

Lexadhra said I could only get it removed with being creative. I felt I was creative in my efforts, curse is gone.

Ayastia

New pet Peeve that I am guilty of: us vs them mentality. Cas we please try and leave it in game and have constructive conversations. I promise I will try if you all do. And that means not just agreeing with your friends because they are your friends. Please? I'll start! I love a large number of the shadow player base, even if our characters don't get along. Shadow helped me in my return to the game and I do not think I would have stayed were if not for you all.

Iazamat

Ayastia said:

And that means not just agreeing with your friends because they are your friends.

I'm not convinced a whole lot of that is actually happening, but regardless it's a difficult distinction to make because, for instance, I agree with people I agree with, regardless of if they're my friends or not. I'm not going to stop agreeing with my friends when they say something I agree with just because they're my friends. We might not agree with one another, but that doesn't mean anyone's dogpile-agreeing because they're friends. Easy to accuse others of, though.

Sibatti

My pet peeve is not having an avenue to proactively pursue or plan things. Orgreqs are cool but they're just for orgs - if I want to personally back up something I have no idea how to make it happen.