Spirit/Shadow PK divide

Erzsebet

'kahi has that kind of dynamic, sorta. The give-and-take master-servant type that isn't bdsm-type or talk-down-type. Part of our feudal system thing, wherein you take a liege (who may or may not be your Sire) regardless of if your blooded or not, and the relationship there is an exchange of house-related service for power. And ultimately, when it's working right, when the vassal raises to a certain rank of power, they can take on vassals of their own. As they gain in power, the liege gains too, from having more powerful vassals. Everyone in 'kahi has a liege though, vampire and unblooded alike. It serves a few other purposes too, but that's the biggest one.

Strung

My opinion: Setting up a defense could be viewed as part of the fun. How many PK players care about a festival for the gods anyway? I would be glad to get out of there.

Riluo

Riluo's take on it is simple. If you serve a purpose he treats you with the same respect as anyone else, otherwise you are nothing and you will be treated as such.

(In otherwords he is an asshole)

In terms of the divide it is up to the cities leaders to define what they will do or not do. Indeed, if Durian really wanted it could align with Spines very easily and create a northern alliance of sorts.

Strung

Riluo said:

Riluo's take on it is simple. If you serve a purpose he treats you the same respect as anyone else, otherwise you are nothing and you will be treated as such.

(In otherwords he is an asshole)

In terms of the divide it is up to the cities leaders to define what they will do or not do. Indeed, if Durian really wanted it could align with Spines very easily and create a northern alliance of sorts.

It's happened before I think. Back when Ashtan was in the game, we had 5 organizations instead of 4 and things were more dynamic in my opinion. As soon as you have an even number of sides, people seem to lock things down.

Haven

I've lost track of where the discussion has gone.

Irruel

The northern alliance was fun times.

I hate the total polarisation of undead vs living. If there was a harsh northern city that claimed neutrality and fought with/against everyone else, I'd join it in a heartbeat.

Kinda needs a bigger player base as well as an even spread. That is, if it really was 4 distinct groups not allied with each other, the player base is still of a size that means there would be people hugely outnumbered because there aren't enough players around for the law of averages to kick in.

So um - it's a lost cause.

Lim

I see this issue as one that we can debate till Hell freezes over, but it is ultimately in the hands of the admin/producers to decide on. They decide what game Aetolia should be, and what demographic they aim to populate it with.

There will always be a bunch of people liking the polarisation, and people who prefer the grey. There will be people who prioritise the competition of red against blue over a more varied storyline, and vice versa. There will be a majority who gets what they want, and the minority will always cry/whine and make a fuss, and this proportion may shift with time.

On a 'hard' approach, the broad guidelines of red v.s. blue are put in place by mechanics, coded in to shape the game a certain way - tether, a rogue-unfriendly ylem system, etc. On a softer approach, culture is shaped by which unhappy camper gets placated, and which get allowed to ragequit. Over time, actions like that shape who remains (in the short term) and more importantly, who joins the game (in the long term).

Today, in part due to admin decisions to polarise the game, we have more of a red v.s. blue thing going. Polarisation places manacles on player freedom to shape the game in interesting ways. This is currently what is complained about, and what I think gave rise to this thread.

Think of DnD, where even players on opposite sides don't want to kick the other side's ass so badly that they don't want to sit down and play together anymore. Then think of WoW, where your aim is to kick the other side's ass and don't really give a hoot if they ragequit. Each has its merits and flaws. One isn't 'better' than the other, it just depends on what kind of game the producers are trying to make.

Now, with a red v.s. blue system comes with it the gloating and whining of the winners and losers of the day. It comes with it acrimony and vitriol. On an administrative level, It also comes with it the need to maintain equal numbers, or mechanics that level the playing field (e.g. hooks on each side). If this isn't done, the game will lose players. In the short term, there are addicts and people who grew up with the game who will stick around. In the long term, they will leave.

On the other hand, this pressure to maintain fair competition is less of a concern in a story-based system where there is, essentially, no OOC sides. The community reinforces itself because people want people to play with, not beat into the dust.

I assume that Raz and the IRE guys have decided that having the red v.s. blue system beats the story-telling system. I assume that they are paying just as much attention to who they want to attract as the current players they are trying to retain.

Demarcus

Hrmmm... I wonder if I can somehow make this discussion split off into a third, separate thread somehow...

But! I thought it was really cool to get Ezalor and that other person (REALLY sorry other person... I don't remember who posted it because you aren't on the I-Can-1v8-All-The-Gods-And-ROFLSTOMP tier with Ezalor) [Also, are there 8 Gods? I can't even count...] perspective on the classes. -I- don't see Syssin as all that badass. But apparently they are. Huh.

Ezalor

The whole vampire shtick is to be all elitist and racist. While it doesn't necessarily have to be an abusive relationship, vampires view living as an entirely different, inferior species; at most the relationship might become akin to one with a fond pet, a positive relationship but definitely not treated as equals. There might even be some respect like a human would hold for a lion or bear or something else dangerous, but yeah.

@Demarcus Syssin are a very, very powerful class. It's harder to manage/play than other classes and there's little room for error but when used properly I think it's actually the best offense in the game.

Xavin

@Riluo - pardon, what? Duiran could -never- align with Spinesreach on a more permanent basis because Spinesreach openly supports things that go directly against Duiran's role in the world. And that's before any pushback from Duiran's gods in an in-role capacity.

Unfortunately, the game is polarized as it is and it would take major role changes to fix that.

Jensen

Xavin said:

@Riluo - pardon, what? Duiran could -never- align with Spinesreach on a more permanent basis because Spinesreach openly supports things that go directly against Duiran's role in the world. And that's before any pushback from Duiran's gods in an in-role capacity.

Unfortunately, the game is polarized as it is and it would take major role changes to fix that.

You'd olny have to be tolerant of the handful of undead players living there. It isn't a stretch, Duiran already allies with civilization, accepts help from necromancers who don't exterminate, and lives in a grey area of the black and white divide.

Rashar

I'm just going to build a big ass house and name it New Vegas, and it'll be an awesome city where you can go to be free, and fly like a peacock.

Jensen

Or buy a used clan and set up shop in Delos

Rashar

Thought about it. Problem is people like city stuff. And Ylem stuff.

Moirean

Yeah! You could add in some shops, an arena, let some shady types like slavers hang out there, maybe put in an inn (maybe call it the Ebony Tankard?) and a brothel (the Flirter's Throw!)....

Jensen

Mostly just Ylem rewards

Moirean

Wait are ylem pylons a new house upgrade?! WHY DOESN'T MINE HAVE ONE YET

Xavin

Jensen said:

Xavin said:

@Riluo - pardon, what? Duiran could -never- align with Spinesreach on a more permanent basis because Spinesreach openly supports things that go directly against Duiran's role in the world. And that's before any pushback from Duiran's gods in an in-role capacity.

Unfortunately, the game is polarized as it is and it would take major role changes to fix that.

You'd olny have to be tolerant of the handful of undead players living there. It isn't a stretch, Duiran already allies with civilization, accepts help from necromancers who don't exterminate, and lives in a grey area of the black and white divide.

That's the thing, though. There aren't many of us who are all that tolerant of necromancers regardless of if they exterminate. No matter what way you slice is, necromancy and particularly the undead violate the Rhythm, which is a major facet of Duiran's roleplay. Maybe if the cabal gets replacements for necromancy and domination, and if spines stopped accepting undead/vampires, etc. Or if the roleplay changed enough on Duiran's side...but I don't think either of those situations is going to happen any time soon.

Jensen

Duiran made that big case for the Teradrim rogue staying in Duiran, also Haven burned the world down when Duiran accepted Aztons help when he was a necro. The case was made that death and the study of death was part of the cycle as is sand and earth. Still just boils down to the 4 or 5 undead members of spines in my eyes.

Moirean

Ie, you. :P

Serrice

Noooo, don't touch the Yeleni vampire. He's special.

Angwe

For what it's worth, Angwe likes Cabalists better than Indorani, going as far as to send his research papers to them for peer review.

Toz

Two Teradrim, in fact! Before that one guy, there was also Brynn. Sand that kills nature was cool when it was being used against BL- and that isn't necessarily snark. If Undeath is a bigger threat it makes sense to use tools - even if those tools aren't great for nature either.

Moirean

Haern was the first patron of the Infernals.

Serrice

It's a shame the Templar blunt route got nerfed. That would've been amazing (terrifying?) to watch.

Draiman

Damn, I was hoping everyone had forgot about Flower Knights.

Toz

Serrice said:

It's a shame the Templar blunt route got nerfed. That would've been amazing (terrifying?) to watch.

It should still be viable. At least, it had one of the highest raw limb dam per second outputs when I checked awhile back? I can run those #s again though.

Moirean

For a minute I thought the old forum filters had cropped back up, and I was like it's true, templars ARE blunt objects to fight.

Serrice

The Templar damage nerf apparently also nerfed the amount of limb damage they do. With impact, it's about... 16 or so per 2.1s, split between two packets of around 8ish. And then remember that they have to deal with rebounding and don't have the capitalization effects or supplementary effects that can boost their offense like Teradrim (golem, salve pressure from the sandstorm), Tekura (numb arms, telepathy to mask and hide limb, kaido for Monks, boilingblood to bypass clumsiness/blurry vision for Zealots), and lycanthropes (howls on 12s for hindering and timing attacks, auto damage upgrades) all have. You don't realize how important those are until you need to do without them.

The point though, is that Templar + Teradrim would've been awesome cool.

Jensen

Serrice said:

Noooo, don't touch the Yeleni vampire. He's special.

I really enjoy how many people that offends