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Re: MAD 2: MADDEN'S MADDENING.
Well, this is a big pile of horse manure. I have seen plenty of people swear on that channel and this is the first person I've seen get booted from it. Glad more and more I opted out.(Cursed): A splinter says, "This poem is titled "WO' betide thee that stoppeth the One Who Rises"."
(Cursed): A splinter says, "Ahem hem."
(Cursed): A splinter says, "Booooo! Put the comedians back on!"
(Cursed): A splinter says, "Get a day job!"
(Cursed): A splinter says, "Please stop..."
(Cursed): A splinter says, "I'll be taking records if you go further. Stop."
(Cursed): A splinter says, "My feelings are really hurt."
(Cursed): A splinter says, "Taking records? What does that even mean?"
(Cursed): A splinter says, "Means you'll get in trouble. Stop while you're not in trouble."
(Cursed): A splinter says, "In trouble with who?"
(Cursed): A splinter says, "Think about it."
(Cursed): A splinter says, "On whomst's authority? WHO ARE YOU TO COMMANDETH ME?!"
(Cursed): A splinter says, "This communication is not without observation."
(Cursed): A splinter says, "In favor of stopping this: Tiur."
(Cursed): A splinter says, "Whomst is that."
(Cursed): A splinter says, "Is it really worth risking the ire of those that could make you stop?"
(Cursed): You say, "... this, yet another reason this event is "Regrettable swears" stupid."
(Cursed): A splinter says, "Okay... That's enough. Let's use this for it's purpose."
(Cursed): A splinter says, "Alright, that's enough. Swearing on here is absolutely a no-go."
(Cursed): A splinter says, "I agree."
(Cursed): A splinter says, "Can always optout if you dont' want to partake....as per help CURSE."
(Cursed): A splinter says, "AYE! BEGONE THOSE WHO WOULD NOT SERVE!"
(Tells): The Divine voice of Someone powerful echoes in your head, "Just wanted to give you a heads
up: You've been opted out of the curse event by force for violation of HELP LANGUAGE RULES. Please
try to be more conscientious of this sort of behavior in the future."
While I'm sorry for doing swears, I'd have happily opted out if you hadn't opened with "If you opt out, you will get no prizes!".
Ayastia
1
Re: Delete Vote Weight
Why do we have a disembodied "fair-ish" voting system? It seems like ballot lines and voting (the actual act of it, not the writing of news posts/campaigning that goes on beforehand) are a great source of drama and conflict, if irl is anything to go by. Why not vote by writing on a slip of paper and dropping it in a ballot box? Of course only a trusted few would be able to see and count the votes, and we'd have to rely on them. Of course if we don't trust them, we'd have to make sure our own people were there. Spectacle! Drama! Intrigue!
That's probably too much hassle though, tbh.
That's probably too much hassle though, tbh.
Xarian
2
Re: Announce post #3136: Question Thread
Having held a position in my life where I have had to mediate between two parties, I feel the need to play Devil's Advocate to this commentary. @Tiur has the unenviable position to collect evidence from all sides, listen to both parties, and make a decision, even if that decision is to do nothing. I am not attempting to diminish your experience, nor say that what happened was not disturbing, awful, or unacceptable, but I also do not know the story of, the experiences of, or what was shared by the other party or parties involved.I need to comment on this. For those of you who don't know, I played Martinaux. I was harassed really bad by a player both IN the game and oocly. My FRIENDS in the game were harassed for being in the same room as my character. Harassed out of rping with me. I ended up retiring Marti and started a new character, but I couldn't break that fear of reaching out to people and start rping, because I was afraid she would find out and would harass those people as well, since she's done that to another alt I had. So I retired that character as well and started a new one. THE FEAR WAS STILL THERE!Teani
A few more questions: What is the process involving player banning? As in, what steps are taken to determine if a player is going to be prevented from playing the game, whether it is short term, long term or permanently? What kind of factors play a role in this (money spent, IC actions, OOC actions, immersion breaking actions, all of the above)? What would it take to have this kind of ban lifted?
My reasons for asking these are many, but I'll share one: at times it feels like some people are allowed to get away with far too much, making other player's time in the game miserable in may different ways, without any noticeable punishment.
This is the question that's giving me a lot of heartache on how to answer, and I know this won't satisfy, but I'll try.
I do my best to be as objective as possible. Some things are easy, like credit card fraud, but behavior is very difficult. Bug abuse is also easy; if you do it, and we can figure it as intentional, you're not worth it to keep around. Even abusive, mean, angry players are perfectly aware that this is a game and you report stuff like that.
Behavior, though... first, I need to know about it. If someone is constantly nice in interactions with me, and never issued, I have no reason to go looking through things about how they act. Next, it needs to be in the game. It has to be pretty egregious for something in a chat program to make it appropriate for me to act in game, especially with how those things can be faked in reporting. Lastly, I use issues and player comment files to build a history. Someone with a history of certain behaviors that has received a warning is going to get worse and worse punishments, until they are gone entirely. Essentially "fired from being a player."
I've almost never done that. Perhaps I should, but often there are two sides of a story. It's why I love IGNORE. If you ignore this abusive person, and they go around it to be abusive, that's an obvious, glaring rules infraction. I also cannot recommend this hard enough: Distance yourself from people who are 'bad' for you. You do not have to talk to them on discord, or pay attention to them whatsoever in game. I know that's not always possible, and I'm sorry. I do try my best, and I mean it when I say that I'm keeping an eye on someone's behavior.
So, now I've stopped playing alltogether, cause that person simply took all the fun out of the game for me. And I know she's been doing it to numerous other people. I'm trying hard not to be upset with all the credits that unicorn cost me through all those retirements, but I will never forgive the game being taken away from me. And I have to put some of that blame on the Admins. You all KNOW what is going on. You KNOW who I am talking about and what she's been doing to so many people and you LET her do it. WHY?! I was told to report if she did anything even after I distanced myself and created new characters. When she still harassed my friends, speculating that certain new characters were me and talking unicorn, I told you, @Tiur, and STILL NOTHING HAPPENED!
I miss the game so, so much. I miss the tedious bashing and having fun rping with people. I miss the friends I had, because I don't dare to talk to them anymore. It hurts. It hurts cause I can't play this game anymore. Because you don't stop abuse when proof is shoved in your face.
That is the difficulty with behavior. Experiences are subjective and colored by subjectivity. To use a hyperbole, we laugh and stare and shake our heads at the antics of those dubbed "Karens" in social media, but from their perspective they are fully justified in their response. Again, that is hyperbole and it is commonly accepted that, based on the actions observed by a large number of people, that their responses are incorrect to the situation.
The Administration, I imagine, have to be extra careful how, what, and where they use their "ban hammer" on players, which is why we often see punishments that become more severe over time that eventually lead to a ban. That is the nature of mediation and governance when it comes to two parties that disagree on the behavior of one, even more when one of the two parties feels that the behavior of one should limit their access to a service. Before you can rightly justify to your company, to your boss(es), and sometimes to yourself, that a person is deserving a ban from the services provided by your company, especially for behavior, your case often has to be airtight and agreed upon by more than one party, as is the case with "Karens".
Did the Admin drop the ball? Possibly. Did the person in question do things that deserve punishments leading up to and including a ban? Possibly. But without knowing both sides, the interactions, the behaviors from all parties, the actions of all parties, etcetera, it is difficult for me (as Devil's Advocate) to state that the Admin have a greater responsibility to ensure a ban is done when x player says it is justified. It is terrible anyone has to go through a situation that left you feeling as you did when attempting to enjoy the game @Sessizlik. I hope, in the future, you will find a way to enjoy the game, and the community, again.
Edit: To clarify in case there is any misunderstanding: I do not defend, justify, or condone any behavior that can be classified as harassment or harmful to another player's experience. This post is, instead, an attempt to help provide insight into the position @Tiur or any other admin may be in when faced with a situation or situations that ask for or demand that a player be banned for their behavior toward another.
Saidenn
0
Re: Announce post #3136: Question Thread
Teani
A few more questions: What is the process involving player banning? As in, what steps are taken to determine if a player is going to be prevented from playing the game, whether it is short term, long term or permanently? What kind of factors play a role in this (money spent, IC actions, OOC actions, immersion breaking actions, all of the above)? What would it take to have this kind of ban lifted?
My reasons for asking these are many, but I'll share one: at times it feels like some people are allowed to get away with far too much, making other player's time in the game miserable in may different ways, without any noticeable punishment.
A few more questions: What is the process involving player banning? As in, what steps are taken to determine if a player is going to be prevented from playing the game, whether it is short term, long term or permanently? What kind of factors play a role in this (money spent, IC actions, OOC actions, immersion breaking actions, all of the above)? What would it take to have this kind of ban lifted?
My reasons for asking these are many, but I'll share one: at times it feels like some people are allowed to get away with far too much, making other player's time in the game miserable in may different ways, without any noticeable punishment.
This is the question that's giving me a lot of heartache on how to answer, and I know this won't satisfy, but I'll try.
I do my best to be as objective as possible. Some things are easy, like credit card fraud, but behavior is very difficult. Bug abuse is also easy; if you do it, and we can figure it as intentional, you're not worth it to keep around. Even abusive, mean, angry players are perfectly aware that this is a game and you report stuff like that.
Behavior, though... first, I need to know about it. If someone is constantly nice in interactions with me, and never issued, I have no reason to go looking through things about how they act. Next, it needs to be in the game. It has to be pretty egregious for something in a chat program to make it appropriate for me to act in game, especially with how those things can be faked in reporting. Lastly, I use issues and player comment files to build a history. Someone with a history of certain behaviors that has received a warning is going to get worse and worse punishments, until they are gone entirely. Essentially "fired from being a player."
I've almost never done that. Perhaps I should, but often there are two sides of a story. It's why I love IGNORE. If you ignore this abusive person, and they go around it to be abusive, that's an obvious, glaring rules infraction. I also cannot recommend this hard enough: Distance yourself from people who are 'bad' for you. You do not have to talk to them on discord, or pay attention to them whatsoever in game. I know that's not always possible, and I'm sorry. I do try my best, and I mean it when I say that I'm keeping an eye on someone's behavior.
Tiur
1
Re: Small Ideas - AIN'T NO COMBAT THREAD
I know there's a mechanical barrier preventing this, and it's why Divines remove a blessing and then bless people once more with the desired amount. But:
Saltz
2
Re: Yedan's Exploits in Sect
Make an alias: ^evade (\w+)$
if tonumber(gmcp.Char.Vitals.mounted) > 0 then -- I am mounted
send("qdmount"..snd.sep.."evade "..matches[2])
else -- I am not mounted
send("evade " ..matches[2])
end
if tonumber(gmcp.Char.Vitals.mounted) > 0 then -- I am mounted
send("qdmount"..snd.sep.."evade "..matches[2])
else -- I am not mounted
send("evade " ..matches[2])
end
Haven
3
Re: Announce post #3136: Question Thread
Bulrok
You get to see everything we say or do in the game, so if you catch us raving and ranting in web, I'm sure that negatively impacts your perception of us - I can understand that to an extent, but I don't believe you should use that as an excuse to avoid us. I would be more inclined to use it as an indicator that something is wrong and it should be addressed. I understand you're trying to respect our privacy, however if you're going to use it as something of a crutch when creating your opinion of us, I believe we should have the opportunity to discuss our problems/concerns/issues with you openly. Sometimes, our surface complaints might be the stemming from something deeper. Keroc posted something somewhere however long ago - maybe his AMA thread - about how video game designers use the fact that people are upset about something to realize that there is an issue /somewhere/, even if the players are latching on to the immediate thing in front of them and are way off.
You get to see everything we say or do in the game, so if you catch us raving and ranting in web, I'm sure that negatively impacts your perception of us - I can understand that to an extent, but I don't believe you should use that as an excuse to avoid us. I would be more inclined to use it as an indicator that something is wrong and it should be addressed. I understand you're trying to respect our privacy, however if you're going to use it as something of a crutch when creating your opinion of us, I believe we should have the opportunity to discuss our problems/concerns/issues with you openly. Sometimes, our surface complaints might be the stemming from something deeper. Keroc posted something somewhere however long ago - maybe his AMA thread - about how video game designers use the fact that people are upset about something to realize that there is an issue /somewhere/, even if the players are latching on to the immediate thing in front of them and are way off.
I like Mark Rosewater for this. "Your audience is good at recognizing problems, but not solving them." So I agree that keeping track of those sorts of things is important, but it can be really draining. If you message me a problem, I'm usually okay to discuss it, as long as we're doing so honestly. Yes, there are a few players that abused that and I don't really extend those lines of communication anymore.
So that leads into my second question. "Clearing the air" this will only work if the conversation is allowed to go both ways; between X person/group and yourself. The impression some of us have, or the question we want to ask is a simple "Why do I get the feeling you hate me?" So my second question is this: Is there any chance you want to open a dialogue with those of us you've decided to avoid and explain why you end up ignoring people?
It's trite, but I don't honestly hate, or really even dislike, any of you. There are certain people I feel like I cannot communicate fairly with, so I don't try (Either in that they won't believe what I say, or they'll take something in a manner I didn't intend). I think a PR shell could help with that, as it will let me get help talking with them, or even let someone without emotional attachment approach the problem and just get yes/no from me.
Tiur
0
Re: Announce post #3136: Question Thread
Oh lord, we made it. Thank you to everyone for taking the time and interest to ask questions, let alone read through them all. Also thank you to my wonderful staff for helping me answer things and doing your best to keep my foot out of my mouth.
I'll open the thread now to give a place to discuss/ask more, but please keep it from getting too heated. I know all of my answers aren't going to be good enough, or what you want to hear, but they're the answers.
If there are enough followups/addons, I might just keep doing a close/open cycle, but honestly this CONSUMED my life since it started and I'm scared of that.
I'll open the thread now to give a place to discuss/ask more, but please keep it from getting too heated. I know all of my answers aren't going to be good enough, or what you want to hear, but they're the answers.
If there are enough followups/addons, I might just keep doing a close/open cycle, but honestly this CONSUMED my life since it started and I'm scared of that.
Tiur
9
Announce post #3136: Question Thread
9/23/2020 at 2:19
Tiur, the Gnosis
Everyone
Question Thread
Communication!
I've altered some of the ways I approach communication, and am looking at making a role akin to Imvra for being the community manager. I could certainly use the help!
But until then, I'd like to go ahead and clear the air of any pending questions, concerns, etc that you have that might be languishing. For whatever reason, I haven't answered you, so let's get them all out and move on from a neutral spot instead of carrying them along.
For the next 48 hours, the thread attached to this announce post will be open to fill with questions and concerns. Then I'll close it and do my best to answer things. Sort of a "Big Questions" thread. Almost a townhall, but not quite. We'll answer everything you put in to the best of our ability, (I switch tenses, because sometimes Raz/Keroc/Volunteer might be better suited to answer) though I cannot promise the answer will be satisfying.
For questions, please keep in mind:
Phrasing a question in an attacking manner is going to just get you removed from the forums.
For example, "Why is Mining still not here." vs "Why haven't you been fired for Mining still not being here."
The first is easy to answer, the second is the same question but made to hurt my feelings.
Please keep questions to the sorts of things that have answers.
For example, "Storyline events have been scarce this year, what gives." vs "The game feels slow lately."
The first is a totally fair question, the second is similar, but I might not understand. It could feel slow because our ISP has been giving us trouble.
I acknowledge that I have dropped the ball lately with communication, and didn't well enough explain the changing ways I'd be doing so. This is my attempt to both make amends/clear the air, and create a more productive system for communication going forward.
Penned by my hand on Gosday, the 11th of Lleian, in the year 490 MA.
Tiur, the Gnosis
Everyone
Question Thread
Communication!
I've altered some of the ways I approach communication, and am looking at making a role akin to Imvra for being the community manager. I could certainly use the help!
But until then, I'd like to go ahead and clear the air of any pending questions, concerns, etc that you have that might be languishing. For whatever reason, I haven't answered you, so let's get them all out and move on from a neutral spot instead of carrying them along.
For the next 48 hours, the thread attached to this announce post will be open to fill with questions and concerns. Then I'll close it and do my best to answer things. Sort of a "Big Questions" thread. Almost a townhall, but not quite. We'll answer everything you put in to the best of our ability, (I switch tenses, because sometimes Raz/Keroc/Volunteer might be better suited to answer) though I cannot promise the answer will be satisfying.
For questions, please keep in mind:
Phrasing a question in an attacking manner is going to just get you removed from the forums.
For example, "Why is Mining still not here." vs "Why haven't you been fired for Mining still not being here."
The first is easy to answer, the second is the same question but made to hurt my feelings.
Please keep questions to the sorts of things that have answers.
For example, "Storyline events have been scarce this year, what gives." vs "The game feels slow lately."
The first is a totally fair question, the second is similar, but I might not understand. It could feel slow because our ISP has been giving us trouble.
I acknowledge that I have dropped the ball lately with communication, and didn't well enough explain the changing ways I'd be doing so. This is my attempt to both make amends/clear the air, and create a more productive system for communication going forward.
Penned by my hand on Gosday, the 11th of Lleian, in the year 490 MA.
