Best Of

Just came to rip the bandaid off.

The problem is, as I see it, there a number of people on Shadow who simply do not take time or show the initiative to get better, or lead. There have been -numerous- times in which i've done lessers, majors, and even orreries with just myself and @Valorie, or with @Sryaen, and there will be 8+ shadow people actively online, but because people like Mjoll or Mazzion aren't around to lead them, they don't try. Actually, they do try, but they get trashed 2v4, 3v6, etc. If Mazz or Mjoll, or even Alela lately aren't leading stuff, objectives are often incredibly free.

It's a competence and willingness to participate problem vs an actual lack of numbers problem.

Ardent hit the nail on the head in his rebuttal towards you, Illidan.

However, let me unpack something else for you. You do have a point that there is a bit of a competence problem because new leaders and new callers getting their feet wet, but what you are disavowing is the willingness to participate still. Yes, there might be 8+ shadow people online, but how many of them ACTUALLY participate in lessers? Maybe half. Furthermore, why would -anyone- (and I've heard this same exact argument from Spirit side, so don't go all tribal tether on me here, mon amie) fight if there is a 2:1 difference in group numbers. Yes, there are times where Shadow -does- have the advantage in numbers, and due to some sort of RP event going on or a lack of leaders on Spirit side, Spirit doesn't show up to a fight when Shadow has 10+ fighters (on the sub-rare occasions).

Also, let's not bring up the Orrery because this last round was absolute bollocks and if you defend it otherwise, that would say more about the culture of Spirit than anything else. I may not have fought in it myself (because busy life style) but I heard a lot about it through web and people venting to me.

I only brought in group numbers and not skills because that's a whole other separate argument and one I'm really not willing to get into with all of you, ESPECIALLY on forums.

There is a lot to unpack in your post @Rhyot that just...is not right. While I'm sure there are times when Spirit has a huge number advantage during individual engagements at lessers, it's not constant. On top of that, there have been plenty of instances where Shadow looses to fairly even numbers and someone will run their mouth saying that Spirit brought a, quote, horde or that Spirit metagamed and pinged people on discord when neither happened.

On top of that, I know I have heard multiple times that Shadow web has a history of being...less than pleasant, especially when taking an L.

So yes, I think there is a bad sportsmanship problem here, but I don't think it's Spirit that has the problem.

Allow me, mi amigo, to unpack this for you then. You are objectively incorrect on the point of it not being a constant. For the past year, it -has- been a constant. Even more so in the past 6 months. At any point in the day, when there is a lesser... it is almost always a 7+ event which quickly bursts to something around 10+ after a first contest. This is likely due to 'Oh we're winning and I can show up, get recognition for showing up for my city credits and not do anything but bash eld because we're double the numbers and it would be suicidal for Shadow to show up at a 10+ man lesser.'

I will, once again, agree that there are times where Shadow loses to even numbers. This is usually either because of poor coordination on a beginning leader, poor class synergy (which is more often than not), or because of some skill usage (which while some of it is understandable, there's also a certain objectivity to it as well, but that's an argument of which I do not want to start here on forums because of tribalistic mentalities and frankly, not conducive to the concerns of mass group numbers).

Also, of the little snippet you posted Xavin.... from an active fighter perspective, that would become a 14v7 in Spirit favor. So I do appreciate you posting proof as to the exact issue of what I'm talking about. It definitely promotes the objectivity of what my frustration.

Also, while Shadow web might sometimes be ornery about taking an L, so too can Spirit (read: complaints about shouting after Shadow gets a W), but much like Shadow they can also be overly cocky (read: continued shouting from Spirit after a W from a lesser/orrery).

While there are issues on Shadow that is affecting people to want to participate, a large portion of the DESIRE to participate falls heavily on the fact that it's a bashfest of 10+v ~6-8.

I have to ask, is the numbers thing maybe a problem with culture? Because right now at this second here is what the numbers look like:


[Bloodloch] :(13) Azarae, Blaze, Callidora, Chassity, Corvo, Jhin, Lynexia, Malcanthet, Rhyot, Seirsha, Sekara, Tina, Yettave.
[Duiran] :(7) Caitria, Jaamir, Jakarn, Jun, Naerthan, Qoexl, Straid.
[Enorian] :(14) Aeryx, Amyie, Carthenian, Iesid, Jezreth, Jhura, Kaiara, Makaya, Naia, Roux, Saltz, Sryaen, Velheima, Xavin.
[Spinesreach] :(11) Axius, Feirenz, Inkh, Menelaus, Mileta, Nebula, Raynia, Rurthina, Syrus, Tekias, Volundiel.
[Rogues] :(4) Aolin, Didi, Morrinth, Teotl.

Now, I know not everyone participates. But I would say that at peak hours we equal you guys. There are plenty of times during the day where I do qwho and see way, way more red than I see blue, and I have level three of both enemy and ally expand and almost full lists on both.

Just came to rip the bandaid off.

If Mazz or Mjoll, or even Alela lately aren't leading stuff, objectives are often incredibly free.

It's a competence and willingness to participate problem vs an actual lack of numbers problem.

Not that I disagree with either of these comments. But wording it like that when people have tried kind of drives home people not wanting to try further when it gets looked at like that.

I would personally say it's more of a learning curve issue of people who are used to calling vs people who haven't called before and typically follow calls. If I can't make a lesser I'll try and help a target order for them, all I can do is offer it though. If people are busy with multiple things and just trying to jump in a lesser and miss that and go off an order that isn't optimal they get stomped pretty hard. Give a second shot at that, same result, kind of pulls the gas out of wanting to go back and try.

Perhaps because I was intentionally vague are you misunderstanding me, but there are people who do actually try, and then there are people who simply do not at all. Even worse, are the people that claim they have the means and knowhow to do better, but willfully choose not to while simultaneously complaining about skewed numbers when they hardly participate unless the roflstomp train happens to be going in full swing for them.