Best Of

Okay, so.

Whatever the issues might be, it seemed like @Nhahlar was really trying to start a conversation in good faith, and try to come to some sort of resolution. There was some discussion for a while, but as the thread continued things got more heated, and things stopped feeling constructive.

Nhahlar seemed to notice that too, because he made a really strong post trying to wrest the thread back on topic, and I think that's extremely admirable of him.

And after he did that, once the attempt to discuss the issue in good faith was resumed, people stopped responding for a while. And now, despite that admirable effort to bring the thread back under control, it's only degenerated back into fierce insults back and forth over Sryaen's reactions. From a neutral party, this feels less constructive than ever now.

Letting people slug out their confrontation has seemed to not work in the past, especially in regards to.. almost the exact same people involved, re: the Iosyne meeting from last year. Far be it from me to tell anyone they're wrong, but if the roles were reversed, I would not have handled it this way.

You do you.

I hope this gets resolved; I really truly do. But by the sounds of things, it's gonna come down to an all-or-nothing change and some people are gonna quickly find themselves yeeted out of their corner of the game.

Re: the meeting with Iosyne: that was not only under a different producer who was extremely conflict averse (and not doing their job), but it had specifically been handed off to a volunteer. I don't want to say whether Iosyne was equipped to handle the situation or not, but it was definitely not a situation that a volunteer should have been put in charge of given the sheer volatility of it - volatility that was, in part, provoked by Tiur's incompetent handling of the game. I'll also point out that, in the end, that meeting and the subsequent forums posts did lead to the change that players wanted to see.

Ictinus has encouraged the community handling its business civilly and politely - which has happened here. People reading aggression into posts given the situation and the amount of times this has happened, regardless of their actual emotional state, is fine. There's a fair amount of grievance people have regarding the situation and how they've been treated. If people feel it's crossing a line, they can call it out and ask for people to step back and take a breath, but preferring that people handle this privately when that exact privacy has afforded the accused the luxuries it has and allowed this behaviour to continue isn't really something that should fly.

I don't agree that this was the wrong way, otherwise I wouldn't have done it. I don't think it's been all that aggressive, either, at least, from what I can tell, from my end. Confrontation is always going to be inherently uncomfortable. I don't want to get into a massive argument about tone policing, either. I just don't agree with your assessment, and I guess I'm going to leave it at that. It might avoid changing anything, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was incorrect or handled poorly. There may be no graceful way to handle this.

I think we just have difference opinions on handling community issues. Privacy benefits certain groups more than others, usually those who want more control over how situations are perceived.

Personally I would've loved a "You're wrong, here's why" reply of some sort, but maybe that's just me.

Also worth noting that at the time the owner of said server removed everyone who was 'toxic'. Most of those players have been removed. You removed yourself. I'm a little confused on the tea, but you removing yourself at the same time Zima did, Zima's attachment to Sryaen, Sryaen's constant passive aggressive interactions, Zima's colossal meltdown, etc etc, all start to paint an incredibly clear picture.

Only semi-related, but: Some of my friends from Imperian once told me about a unique artifact in Imperian. It wasn't one you bought with money or credits. It was something you happened upon by fate. The artifact is known as The Bottomless Well Of Cause. I think I've found it in Aetolia, and I should probably use it.

I have no idea what the implication is here. But uh, my guy, I'm not part of anyone's alt army. I don't particularly enjoy interacting with you because you seem to be incapable of seeing other people's viewpoints, especially if they're opposite your own. But am I gonna go out of my way to.. I don't know what this post is even implying.. make alts to vote in a Dominion election or you think I think about you outside the confines of these ridiculous forum posts or the Aetolia discord? I mean, don't flatter yourself, boo.

My LOL reacts to this entire thread is because this is seems to accomplish nothing in the grand scheme of things. Sure, it may shine some visible light on some probably very real, very valid problems, but the manner in which it was done so (and the subsequent dogpiling by a handful of the same people) makes this whole thread seem like a circlejerk. I think if the issues really wanted to be addressed, an e-mail to Ictinus or a mass message between Icti, Callidora and any other pertinent individuals would've been the better way to handle it.

@Zethrie

Two people in that server are permanently shrubbed. One consistently bounces back and forth between Aetolia and Haven depending on how bad they've been ostracized by the respective community they belong too at the time for being stalkerish/uncomfortably attached (and a *laundry list of things in between*), and several other are known sex pests. I would sincerely appreciate it if you never, ever, EVER, so callously and negligently compare that list of players to an entire tether again.

Also worth noting that at the time the owner of said server removed everyone who was 'toxic'. Most of those players have been removed. You removed yourself. I'm a little confused on the tea, but you removing yourself at the same time Zima did, Zima's attachment to Sryaen, Sryaen's constant passive aggressive interactions, Zima's colossal meltdown, etc etc, all start to paint an incredibly clear picture.

Only semi-related, but: Some of my friends from Imperian once told me about a unique artifact in Imperian. It wasn't one you bought with money or credits. It was something you happened upon by fate. The artifact is known as The Bottomless Well Of Cause. I think I've found it in Aetolia, and I should probably use it.