Artifact ideas

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  • KalakKalak Member Posts: 252 ✭✭✭
    Teani said:

    One should also remember that this is a business, meaning IRE wants to try earn money. Why would they want to offer something cheaper if the already existing artifacts are actually selling? Transmutation and adaptation have other nice nice effects attached to them, and picking these apart might be difficult or diminish the value of what already exists, causing more issues than what it's worth.

    Besides, as it stands right now it means that one might actually have to put some thought into one's character and the choices made when ascending, rather than just going "Heck, I'll just toss some things around and change later."

    Yes old players would throw a fit as usual and threaten with the magical word of "refund", hence the Equilibrium Crown still exists to the date.

    Enhancements or stats has nothing to do with putting thought into one's character and choices made while ascending. It is a matter of QoL(Quality of Life) If the game wishes people to try out several classes and stat models, experiment...then the BASIC necessities of that experimenting should be affordable. Furthermore, that would actually lead to a more distributed artifact sale where people would buy depending on their actual needs.

    Now, if you want my direct piece about making choices. When I played in Sciomancers, @Tekias hardly knew about enhancements where I pointed out their existence. And he was assigned to be the leading person on novices by whom, I wonder... And no one actually told me about the existence of heritage bonuses (when they were a thing months ago) which for Humans used to be +1 stat. And furthermore not much of the people in the guild was knowledgeable enough to give solid advice on Sciomancy skills.So, tell me what kind of choices we should talk about at the existence of a clear lack of guidance. It is rather amusing to have such a harsh attitude of "Choose Wisely", especially in your case.

    At this point my assessment is that you are clearly reaching for straws right now just for the sake of supporting a rather obsolete way of making money by IRE which is often detrimental rather then encouraging. But be my guest, wave your wallet and it shall not impress me but just deprive the future players from some quality in their game life.
    RhyotElliotXavin
  • XeniaXenia Member Posts: 943 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would have to agree that changing ones enhancements and statpack should be free or next to with a low cost item.

    The primary uses really do lend towards a flexibility of how one chooses to PK, which isn't a booming thing to begin with. I'm definitely in favor of making changes which would encourage and more PK engagement and encourage experimentation without feeling like you have to drop lots of money to see what one can learn from creativity.
    image
    Kalak
  • RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 230 ✭✭✭
    100 credits for a rebirth crystal is already a low cost item. Hell, you could get these as a drop from cryptic chests.

    Additionally, if you really are that interested in swapping that often, again.... you have the adaptation and transmutation gems already available.


    This would be nothing but a redundant artifact made for no other reason than just to avoid paying 100 credits.

    TekiasKalakEvalyne
  • KalakKalak Member Posts: 252 ✭✭✭
    edited March 6
    Rhyot said:

    100 credits for a rebirth crystal is already a low cost item. Hell, you could get these as a drop from cryptic chests.

    Additionally, if you really are that interested in swapping that often, again.... you have the adaptation and transmutation gems already available.


    This would be nothing but a redundant artifact made for no other reason than just to avoid paying 100 credits.

    Cryptic chest is speculation, so bringing forth a promotion as a valid argument is unhealthy.

    100 credits is a low cost for you or me. It is not a low cost for the majority of people trying out the game. Furthermore it is 1/3 of a skillset in cost for a simple change of enhancement or statpack. It is not cheap. Availability is different then being affordable.

    The barrier in this game for some activities are already high. Elementary mechanics such as changing statpacks and enhancements should encourage people to experiment freely instead of forcing people to pay or get frustrated over their initial mistakes. But hey I hear you, you would be on the first line to cry for refund or lament the loss of your artifact-based advantage. Clearly in your mind it is redundant to think about well-being of the majority or other players.
    TekiasEvalyne
  • TekiasTekias WisconsinMember Posts: 179 ✭✭✭
    Just a tip that I'm sure you've heard many, many times before: Perhaps, if you wish your ideas to gain any traction into being reality, you could phrase your words such that you -don't- insult people who have dissenting opinions. Or dragging those who had nothing to do with the topic at hand through mud.

    Of course, this is just a tip. Feel free to disregard at your own risk.



    I'll now return you to your regularly discussed Artifact Idea thread.
    Formerly: Spiegel. Eidycue.

    Hi.

    image
    ArbreKoda
  • KalakKalak Member Posts: 252 ✭✭✭
    edited March 6
    Tekias said:

    Just a tip that I'm sure you've heard many, many times before: Perhaps, if you wish your ideas to gain any traction into being reality, you could phrase your words such that you -don't- insult people who have dissenting opinions. Or dragging those who had nothing to do with the topic at hand through mud.

    Of course, this is just a tip. Feel free to disregard at your own risk.

    I'll now return you to your regularly discussed Artifact Idea thread.

    That was an example, merely but if you are not open to criticism then there is nothing we can do about that, yes? What I am saying in that example is this: When player negligence can be quite rampant at times, we cannot harbor a "Choose Wisely" attitude for basic things such as enhancements and statpacks which are quite open to make mistakes with.

    But feel free to push Abuse and turn your face away from the realities of game mechanics.
    Nahuaque
  • RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 230 ✭✭✭
    Ok. Let me play this game for a second.

    Re: Enhancements - Enhancements are meant as a tool to augment what you want to do in the game. Primarily when people utilize these enhancements, they already have an idea of what they would like to do, whether that is PK, PVE, roleplay, etc. So they build their enhancements around this idea. For example, I do both PK and PVE. So I've built my enhancements around BOTH criteria with a focusing on experience gain because that's my primary purview. So being able to switch whenever you so choose because you feel like you made a mistake is easily rectifiable through the purchase of the 100 credits rebirth crystal. Easily affordable, cheap, and cost effective. Many people, even those who choose not to invest into the game through the purchase of credits via a credit card are able to afford this.

    If you truly want to allow a change of enhancements as often as you like, maybe you should submit an idea about a cooldown process, such as we had for the heritage bonuses of a human in that, after a full Aetolia year (12 days), you could change the +1 stat. That would probably be a more suitable solution to what you are desiring while still leaving the artifacts alone and trying to diminish the value of already created, already affordable artifacts.

    Keep in mind, people played for years without enhancements and we can live without them again if the admins so chose to remove them. These are a luxury we get to have now, not something we need to demand.

    Re: Classes - Yes, you're right, 100 credits is about 1/3 of the cost of a full tri-trans class. So people, as @Teani has suggested, have to choose their enhancements wisely. See above argument about those. Additionally, expanding classes is MORE expensive than a 100 credit artifact and more times than not, people will sacrifice their class/lessons to learn a new one. And at class change, you get an automatic enhancement switch anyway. So when you change class, TADA... new enhancement set.


    If you truly want to help better the game, stop attacking people who have disagreeing opinions and think from a business standpoint the difficulties of what you're asking. Just because you think its a good idea (a player with very little Aetolia education), doesn't mean it's going to be a good idea. Debate amongst more established players with well thought out arguments. Stop assuming everyone is out to get you or that people don't want change because of "willful negligence". People want this game to succeed just as much as every other player. Be accepting of criticism and if necessary, maybe take their ideas/criticisms to heart to think of a new idea to still get to your end goal.

    TekiasKalakTeaniEvalyne
  • KalakKalak Member Posts: 252 ✭✭✭
    @Rhyot Your "established players" rhetoric is just, how should I say...elitist and annoying at best. And thinking I have some kind of paranoia that people are out to get me is laughable. I have enough experience as much as your "established players". Seriously that attitude alone is toxic and counterproductive for the future of the game.

    If you still think 100 credits is cheap and if you are a representative of established players who want the game to succeed, then I am not sure what kind of delusion grasps this game. Is it hard to understand the large barriers exists all over the game and you just keep defending a crooked idea which does not help the game at all?

    Even from business perspective, let us say if you buy transmutation you get lots of things. The thing is people may not wish to buy all of those things and pay 1000 credits for a transmutation. They might just need a fraction of those capabilities. So what is offered does not subtract from the value, just divides the effects of a very overpriced artifact.

    Now attacking players is what you see in your mind. What I do is pointing out when we have fairly negligent playerbase who does not know their mechanics, it is not wise to give room for mistakes in mechanics such as statpacks and enhancements.
    Evalyne
  • TrikalTrikal Member Posts: 152 ✭✭✭
    You get a free reincarnation at level 99, when you've had a chance to play with enhancements and statpacks. Isn't that what you're asking for? If by the time you've bashed yourself to 100 and haven't figured out what you want through a mistake or two before that I'm not sure what to say other than, learn some quests, get some gold, and buy credits off the market. I made enough yesterday alone to buy 50 credits to finish an artifact I was working towards. So sure 100 credits is kind of a pain and it'll take a normal person who's not me a good 4-5 days to do quests to earn the gold, but like really, it's not that expensive.

    There are nearly 300 quests in the registered quest system that've been player discovered and completed, most of which give gold, and many more that aren't in the quest system due to existing before it. If you can't be bothered to play enough to learn the game and the mechanics of earning gold to buy credits so you can adjust your character how you like I don't think that you're going to buy a 250 credit artifact in order to have unlimited enhancement changes. I don't see the person who wants that and is going to get it because changing once is too rough when it's easy enough to earn in a week of playing the game.
    XeniaEvalyne
  • KalakKalak Member Posts: 252 ✭✭✭
    @Trikal You do not get extra reincarnation if you did not spend your earlier one though.

    Also do not be stuck with the idea of 250 credit, it was an arbitrary value in the example, it could be way cheaper for mass adoption. Mass adoption, in the long run is more profitable then whale purchases.

    The core of the idea is this: Everyone should be able to change their enhancements between PvE and PvP setups at an affordable cost. To increase experimentation and flexibility in character builds.

    You can know all about mechanics and quests, but still you will not pay 100 cr for a one-shot artifact and 1000 cr version of it will seem quite daunting to buy when there are several other things you have to spend your resources upon.

    Furthermore, 100 credits is possible to make with gold argument is unsustainable because those credits have to come from some reserve.

    Speaking for keeping these simple quality of life features "artificially" hard to attain is detrimental to the game. Surely some people wish to keep their advantage in investment for selfish reasons. But this is not some +1 to a stat or %5 extra damage to get an edge. This is the flexibility part of the game when limited, it will make feel people extorted or suffocated. There are many cases I remember in IRE games where people put themselves on "hold" because they screwed something elementary in stats or setups.
    Evalyne
  • TrikalTrikal Member Posts: 152 ✭✭✭
    Honestly I'd be happy to see reincarnation be basically free throughout until you're 100, with as easy as endgame is it's pretty meh and would allow lots of testing and flexibility to people as the level up, hopefully encourage them to PvP while still working on 100. Could easily have this be something you spend some haven points on or something as well if there's concerns of making a current artifact useless as there's still reason to get the artifact then. Even if enhancement setup changes without full reincarnation.

    The 100 credits is possible to make with gold argument is so sustainable it's crazy in my experience. With the exception of when I ended up breaking the entire economy of the game (for a few weeks) credits have always been available on the market for years and years. There's always someone who thinks it's worth it to buy some from the website and sell them. Until people stop being lazy it will be a thing, and frankly I don't ever see people stopping being lazy.
    Teani
  • EliadonEliadon Somewhere Over the RainbowMember Posts: 111 ✭✭✭
    I don't mind that idea, actually. Changing enhancements so you can use, say, an eq class and a bal class, pretty reasonable for a relatively low price. If we want to change statpacks, then we have adaptation, but there is definitely a niche for enhancements.
  • TeaniTeani Evening Sky SwedenMember Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I really like the idea of using haven points for this as an option. It would give them another use.



  • OofaOofa RIMember Posts: 16
    edited March 22
    Idea #1045 Section: unassigned Support: 0
    2018/03/21 22:19:32: It sure would be neat and woman-friendly if purses could have
    the artifact_pack power, Marry Poppins style! (I also wouldn't complain if that meant
    moneybags could also be artifact_packs.) Thanks y'all!

    Please click like to voice your support for badass Mary Poppins style shenanigans. :lol: (Men also encouraged to participate in Mary Poppins style shenanigans!) This is probably the only reason I haven't bought the two arti pack powers from the cart! :heart:
    Zaila
  • RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 230 ✭✭✭
    You could also use a customization certificate to make your pack into a purse.... Just fyi

  • ZailaZaila Pacific TimeMember Posts: 350 ✭✭✭✭
    I had that same initial reaction @Rhyot - but then I had the secondary thought of "If they'd let me change it into a purse, then they may as well make it possible to start with a purse, too.
  • OofaOofa RIMember Posts: 16
    Rhyot said:

    You could also use a customization certificate to make your pack into a purse.... Just fyi

    I'm not really trying to pay an additional 100cr for customization on top of artifact_pack and pack_expand, but it is definitely an option!
  • RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 230 ✭✭✭
    @Zaila @Oofa

    I see both of your points. However, if that was the case, you'd be opening up huge cans of worms regarding multiple types of clothing and container possibilities. Which could cause massive headaches for admins. 

    Best answer/option to avoid undue admin migraines is just the custom certificate and pack. Just my thought process. I could be wrong. 

    Teani
  • OofaOofa RIMember Posts: 16
    Can you explain what other worms are in that can? I'm not understanding the pandora's box caused by players putting artifact_pack on purses! Paying an additional 100cr for customization and another 25cr to transfer the power feels like a pink tax. (Obviously a very minor one that doesn't hugely impact my life in any serious way.)
  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 472 admin
    edited March 22
    Rhyot said:

    You could also use a customization certificate to make your pack into a purse.... Just fyi

    Actually, she asked me about this. The problem is that the system literally checks for the word 'purse' for moneypouches, and artifact_pack is satchel, pack, or bag. It literally won't work. I have to go be creative and change the code... which is what Ideas are meant to convince me to do.
    RhyotZaila
  • ZailaZaila Pacific TimeMember Posts: 350 ✭✭✭✭
    Oofa said:

    Paying an additional 100cr for customization and another 25cr to transfer the power

    You would only be paying 50cr (or one cust cert) to change the description of the item into a purse in what Rhyot's suggesting, for the record. You would buy the item (the wyrm pack) and then plop it into the customisation process to change the description. You don't need to change the item type, just change the description to a purse of your choosing. You wouldn't be transferring the power, simply changing the description of the item that already holds said power.
  • AnteheAntehe Member, Immortal Posts: 453 Immortal
    To change the item type to purse (noun), you would need to pay additionally to change that item type (if it isn't already an alias of the root item).

    The alternative is to be a little creative with the phrasing of 'pack'. A delicate beaded pack, etc.
    ZailaOonaghOofa
  • AxiusAxius where I amMember Posts: 200 ✭✭✭
    I know this might have already been considered. Heck, I'm pretty sure it's guaranteed to be considered, but I'm copying a post I was about to put up in another thread over here instead.

    (Context: Tedrunai mentioned that cryptic chests bought with gold were removed -before- the nerf to gold drops from bashing. Then because inflation went nuts as a result of this loss of it being tied down to a minimum value, they nerfed the gold drops from bashing. This is my question to @Tedrunai and to all of the godmin and @Tiur in turn about it.)

    @Tedrunai but in this case, wouldn't it be possible to instead return the gold-purchased chests again? The issue so far is that gold-sinks are almost nil now that are considered "worth it" by those who already -have- the millions of gold tucked away. The giftbags that are sold in place of cryptic chests are kind of barely worth it, though might gain value in the future if that exchange system is managed to properly be implemented to guide giftbags towards favoring specific items (Like how I think it was Orange giftbags that favored scrolls or something? Green favored mint chocos? Blue favored chalices. Note: FAVORED does NOT mean Guaranteed. It just means -higher chances-.) But with gold sinks being lacking, and there being ridiculous amounts of gold. Chests might inject a fucktonne of bound credits back into the system.. but wouldn't it be possible to have the new chests not drop anything more valuable than say.. 75-100cr as far as arties go? It'd mean coding a separate kind of chest into the game, but you'd reduce the gold presence a lot, and you'd have something that drops stuff valuable to a variety of players in turn.
    Evalyne
  • RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 230 ✭✭✭
    edited March 26
    How about an inferior version of the Merchant's Logbook... let's call it the Traders Logbook?

    What I mean by that is this: An artifact that allows the user to swap out any tradeskill and keep it at current skill level, but you can only swap it out once per Aetolian season (ie 1 swap per 12/13 days).



    For anyone who isn't aware, the Merchants Logbook allows the user to swap out tradeskills and retain current skill level at any point in time they like.

    TeaniKalak
  • PhoeneciaPhoenecia The Merchant of Esterport Somewhere in AtticaMember Posts: 515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd kill to be able to buy a second mercantile slot like you can with class slots.
    TeaniZaila
  • KalakKalak Member Posts: 252 ✭✭✭
    edited March 27
    There are many people who would kill for a Merchant's Logbook kind artifact which would impact ingame economy negatively. That would lead to self-sufficiency in the long run.

    Even the powerful version should not make an appearance ever if the players are desired to interact on economical level.
  • RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 230 ✭✭✭
    Having a Traders Logbook would not negatively affect economy. On the contrary, it could very well bolster it. Some people take up forging but then quit, leaving the game short of forgers. Additionally, this would likely be an expensive artifact that not everyone would be able to afford.

    Self sufficiency would not be a thing as, again, this artifact would be expensive nor does everyone get a trade skill. What it would do is allow flexibility among players to have different tradeskills at any time. I have a forging hammer, but I'm not a forger. With the traders logbook, I could become a forger for a season and forge darkies some weapons that they might need in a specific scale. Or you could help with pill creations and harvesting. Or you could learn how to craft things through woodworking. 

    Being able to switch would not break the economy, but merely bolster it. 

  • KalakKalak Member Posts: 252 ✭✭✭
    edited March 27
    This would bolster credit sales perhaps! But uhh...not the ingame economy. It will seem like bolstering at first but then it will go downhill after awhile when more and more wealthy players get their hands on it.

    Basically with a simple rotation, one will be able to move through every mercantile skillset and then create a massive cache.

    In MKO everyone could have any Mercantile skillset, it did not bolster the economy. It basically killed the whatever economy was there.
  • TeaniTeani Evening Sky SwedenMember Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe a Trader's logbook, as opposed to a Merchant's logbook, could have the ability to switch between two tradeskills only, and on a seasonal basis, perhaps? That way it wouldn't be as powerful as the full artifact, but it would provide with some variety for people, while preventing massive caches.



    ZailaPhoeneciaEowyn
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