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Request: Luminary Logs

13

Comments

  • EzalorEzalor Emperor D'baen Canada
    edited May 2013
    Yeah, honestly seems to me like you guys need something better vs rebounding. And the thing with the heatwave affs are they don't actually bury anything (hallucinations is kind of useful, but 1 useful aff on rebounding is pretty mediocre assuming you can't battle with it, and even if you can battle with it it becomes so very useless if they already have hallucinations), as I said berserk can literally just be ignored forever. Like, don't even bother to cure it until the fight is over status. I suppose it does find marginal use being an aff for the purposes of Overwhelm.

    Can you guys angel battle and slash with a weapon in the same combo? 
    image
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander Portland
    edited May 2013
    Uhh, angel strip used to prioritize rebounding. I remember testing it as one of the first things I played with as Lumi. I'm fairly certain all def stripping skills do. If it isn't, you should bug it for at least confirmation.

    Also, afflictions aren't the only way Luminaries can fight. Don't forget that you guys have a solid limb route through crush and smash. Being able to split the damage between multiple limbs for 2 resto breaks at once is HUGE, especially since you have a skill (overwhelm, which can set up bleeding for absolve) to directly capitalize off a prone target.
  • EzalorEzalor Emperor D'baen Canada
    edited May 2013
    Yeah, but it sucks to waste 2+ secs of eq just stripping rebounding, bad deal. For reference on some other classes, Bloodborn are slowed by 0.5 seconds when they attack rebounding (switch to scythe), Praenomen lose their lock aff but can deliver one of two very useful affs (bloodpoison, blood curse, can also give slickness through rebounding if they are at the secure-lock stage), Templars have razestrike, and so on. Lumis seem kind of gimped in this regard. Limb damage Luminaries seem even more gimped by it since their available options vs rebounding become even worse if they aren't going for affs. I guess they can Angel Sear off it and give the salve failure, but meh.
    image
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander Portland
    Teradrim and Carnifex have it even worse as far as rebounding goes, so I guess I'm just not that sympathetic :P Remember that angel and shadowing can keep on hitting even if rebounding is up, with shadowing giving affs through shield. Evoke fire is a great rebound strip option with limb damage, as it gives a salve aff AND strips rebounding AND strips shield AND does damage. 

    Regarding your examples, maybe vampires just are too potent against rebounding, instead of everyone else being too weak! >_>
  • EzalorEzalor Emperor D'baen Canada
    Yeah, I've already voiced my opinion on Teradrim too from fighting them but I don't know their skillset very well. Carnifex I know even less about besides the legendary 1.5 second SSL.
    image
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight School
    Ezalor said:
    Yeah, honestly seems to me like you guys need something better vs rebounding. And the thing with the heatwave affs are they don't actually bury anything (hallucinations is kind of useful, but 1 useful aff on rebounding is pretty mediocre assuming you can't battle with it, and even if you can battle with it it becomes so very useless if they already have hallucinations), as I said berserk can literally just be ignored forever. Like, don't even bother to cure it until the fight is over status. I suppose it does find marginal use being an aff for the purposes of Overwhelm.

    Can you guys angel battle and slash with a weapon in the same combo? 
    Whaaaaaaaa! You're crazy. If you don't cure berserking then you can no longer focus away the afflictions that come after it in the set focus cure order: stupidity, anorexia, epilepsy, paranoia, hallucinations, shyness, stuttering, dizziness, indifference, berserking, pacifism, lovers, hatred, generosity, claustrophobia, vertigo, loneliness, agoraphobia, masochism, recklessness, weariness, confusion, dementia

    Angel Battle is also separate from everything. You can literally do anything with angel battle. The only restriction Angel Battle has is its own balance. I don't even believe disfigurement stops your angel from acting.

    Angel strip does prioritize rebounding but it DOES NOT prioritize shielding.

    All Limb damage attacks (excluding a targeted smite) for Luminaries bypass rebounding. The only thing you have to worry about is shielding and parry when it comes to the limb damage route for Luminaries unless you happen to decide for a targeted smite.
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
  • CorlinCorlin
    Moirean said:
    Uhh, angel strip used to prioritize rebounding. I remember testing it as one of the first things I played with as Lumi. I'm fairly certain all def stripping skills do. If it isn't, you should bug it for at least confirmation.
    It does. I mentioned it in relation to shield, which it doesn't prioritize - which saddens me. I think the pastebin Haven offered said that it did, which is why I was using it - since the balance on angel strip is faster than evoke fire.
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander Portland
    That's a fair balance. Being able to consistently strip shield at half the time it costs to use the skill (plus even quicker with crown) would be pretty out of whack, considering your other skills.
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight School
    Daingean (Luminary) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d44fojucg.html

    Saybre (Templar) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d44f7gpa8.html

    Jayke (Templar) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d44g03nhc.html

    Akimoto (Syssin) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d44bpwdsw.html

    Isto (Templar) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d44df9yk0.html

    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
  • CorlinCorlin
    TIL: Mirroring is scary and @Jayke kills people faster than @Saybre.

    @Haven - I noticed you used angel sear a time or two - I was wondering, is the proc on heated body really worth the balance time it takes to angel sear a person? It seems very unreliable. I can see that you might use it, if you were really intent on getting a flare, maybe?
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight School
    Corlin said:
    TIL: Mirroring is scary and @Jayke kills people faster than @Saybre.

    @Haven - I noticed you used angel sear a time or two - I was wondering, is the proc on heated body really worth the balance time it takes to angel sear a person? It seems very unreliable. I can see that you might use it, if you were really intent on getting a flare, maybe?
    I think so. It's 15 seconds where any salve application might fail and the balance gets used up. Like if they pre-restore a limb or try to cure a mangled limb, they lose the cure for the 4 seconds they're off salve balance when it procs. Meaning they're prone longer or the limb is broken longer. Which gives me more time to press salve or go for the flare. Just gotta be persistent and pray for the proc.

    It might not be worth it for those gunning for a quick efficient kill since the tactic relies on the luck of heated body procing. At the time though, I hadn't worked out an aff route yet so that's all I had going for me. It wasn't until Akimoto's spar that I finished coding a better aff route.
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight School
    Ezalor (Praenomen) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d45jsmieo.html
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
  • CorlinCorlin
    I forgot to log last night, but I had a spar with Jeromy and he was some sort of vampire (whichever one uses the ghast) and it was massive affliction overload, very quickly.

    I was really quite overwhelmed, and though I only had my buffer to look at, I'm not exactly sure how I could have overcome it. Looking at your log with Ezalor, vampires seem to afflict very quickly.

    Are there any tips to handling that sort of whammy, besides 'touch shield, hope for passive curing to help'?
  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.
    Fortunately (and unfortunately) Aetolia combat is balanced off max combat potential. To fight against most classes, you need to have tree\tattoo\herbs\renew\focus all available

    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight School
    Benedicto (Templar) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d4cyffkf4.html

    Benedicto (Templar) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d4cvqomm8.html

    Benedicto (Templar) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d4d6k6ekg.html

    Akimoto (Templar) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d4cxfaca8.html

    Akimoto (Templar) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d4cwh1x00.html
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight School
    Macian (Shaman) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d4hq6xg5c.html

    Macian (Shaman) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d4htpmhog.html

    Macian (Shaman) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d4hvsr6i8.html

    Jayke (Templar) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d4hxfzt74.html
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
  • CorlinCorlin
    edited June 2013
    Haven said:

    Can someone help me? Vampires are absolutely destroying me and locking me down so quickly and I have no idea what it is or what to do.

    Originally, my herb curing went something like: paralysis -> stupidity  -> impatience -> kelp afflictions -> then other things.

    Ezalor (Bloodborn) would wreck me: http://pastehtml.com/view/d4i6exbps.html (Although admittedly in this log, my reconstitute wasn't working.)

    So he suggested I put the kelp afflictions ahead of stupidity and impatience because curing those first set me up for an easy lock against vampires stacking kelp. Haven't fought him since the reorganization of kelp ahead of stupidity/impatience but I went and sparred @Rammus to no avail.

    @Rammus (Praenomen) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d4irlue00.html

    And these are without the use of biles! Biles make it 10000% worse for my curing and I'm at a loss at how to deal with it. Advice is appreciated!

    [I AM TRAPPED INSIDE THE QUOTE BOX, AGH]

    I am very curious for logs / input on this subject as well. I've only sparred one vampire since taking up :Luminary combat, but he -destroyed- me.
  • EzalorEzalor Emperor D'baen Canada
    edited June 2013
    I gave Haven a bunch of advice in the Owned thread. As for biles, they are 10000% useless. You just need to apply epidermal at least once every 7 seconds and yellow bile will never activate on you. That is probably why they are not using them on you.

    Also, we had a talk with Bartholomew and he said absolutely Dex + Crown is the way to go and it had nothing to do with him being stuck in the statpack, so take his word for what it's worth!
    image
  • IllikaalIllikaal Pray Area
    I'm Illidan and I approve of this message. 
    "And finally, swear to Me: You will give your life to Dendara for you are Tiarna an-Kiar."
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight School
    Welp. Looks like I better place in the upcoming Great Hunt.
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.
    @Ezalor - Man, you're determined to prove you know more about the class than those that play it, aren't you? Also, biles aren't useless and if you manage to stick slickness they become exponenttially more potent. There's a reason they're easily preventable, if you let them ride they're crazy strong, just like hellsight is.

    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • EzalorEzalor Emperor D'baen Canada
    edited June 2013
    It has nothing to do with proving myself right or wrong, but that I am pretty sure that is the optimal way to play the class except no one wants to listen to me because I don't have the class. Well now you have someone with an amazing combat reputation as the class echoing the points I made :P.

    If slickness sticks the vampire has already won, so biles hardly matter. As soon as an opening comes up to stick slickness without it getting cured instantly your chances at a truelock are like 90%. Also biles and hellsight really can't be compared, one is a great aff every 1 second followed by mana drain, the other is hatred every 7 seconds followed by a blackout every 7 seconds if hatred goes uncured. I do agree that biles don't really need to be accessible with how strong Praenomen currently are though. Was just pointing out that biles really do nothing atm and aren't worth the time to set them up, hence why they aren't being used against Corlin.
    image
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight School
    I want to see DEX+crown numbers!
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
  • MacianMacian
    Until someone posts with a log, you should be able to figure out the numbers by looking at the base.

    Crown is 7% faster, so probably:  Chasten: 2.55 (2.75*0.93)

    Dex is 14% faster, so probably:   Buckler Strike: 2.36 (2.75*0.86)
    Facesmash: 2.15 (2.5*0.86)
    Slam: 2.15 (2.5*0.86)

    e.g. you're capped at 2.55 for most of your combos, instead of 2.75, which is the buckler neutral speed cap for Wise.


  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight School
    edited June 2013
    So I did the math and updated the list (essentially just multiplied the base by 0.93 like @Macian's example): http://pastebin.com/MEGekrti

    A Wise Luminary with a crown:
    • Main Affliction Combo at 2.75 seconds [ Strike (2.75s) or Punch (2.75s) + Chasten (2.19s) ]
    • Transfix at 2.39s and Facesmash at 2.50s
    • Aura Combos/Strips at 1.97s min to 2.59s max [Heatwave (2.59s), Dazzle (2.39s), Strip (1.97s), Shield Strip (2.37s)]
    • Main Limb Route Combo at 2.75s min to 3.75s max [Crush (2.75s buckler, 3.75s tower), Smash (3.50s)]
    A Dexterous Luminary with a crown:
    • Main Affliction Combo at 2.55 seconds [ Strike (2.36s) or Punch (2.36s) + Chasten (2.55s)]
    • Transfix at 2.79s and Facesmash at 2.15s
    • Aura Combos/Strips at 2.32s min to 3.02s max [Heatwave (3.02s), Dazzle (2.79s), Strip (2.32s), Shield Strip (2.79s)]
    • Main Limb Route Combo at 2.36s min to 3.22s max [Crush (2.36s buckler, 3.22s tower), Smash (3.01s)]
    There ya have it folks.

    Edit: 
    Optimal affliction rate would go to a Wise Luminary due to being able to bypass rebounding at a faster rate to maintain offense.
    Optimal limb damage rate would go to a Dexterous Luminary due to the lowered shield speeds and the fact limb attacks on a Luminary ignore rebounding all together.

    So it's a matter of style. Affliction and limb damage routes are viable as both statpacks but optimal speeds support Dex for limb and Wise for affliction.

    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
  • CorlinCorlin
    Re: Haven's post: This is what Daskalos has been saying all along. That wise lets you keep the pressure up for afflicting. Which, at least for me, is my preferred attack route, as I have not looked into the limb break setup at this time. So, for -me-, wise is best.

    Which doesn't really touch on the 'vampires kick my face in, what do?' post of Haven's that I've quoted up there. Is that really the answer? Move your kelp affs up? Hit and run the ghast?
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight School
    edited June 2013
    Corlin said:
    Re: Haven's post: This is what Daskalos has been saying all along. That wise lets you keep the pressure up for afflicting. Which, at least for me, is my preferred attack route, as I have not looked into the limb break setup at this time. So, for -me-, wise is best.

    Which doesn't really touch on the 'vampires kick my face in, what do?' post of Haven's that I've quoted up there. Is that really the answer? Move your kelp affs up? Hit and run the ghast?
    Yeah, I did a lot better moving my kelp aflictions ahead of the goldenseal stuff. With our offense, we're able to slow them down enough to kill them. However, killing the ghast is a MUST. Though I'm finding it exceptionally difficult to accomplish because while you attack the ghast, they're able to just heal it up while still maintaining an offense on you.

    Likely not ideal in a real fight though because supplies are limited as opposed to an arena fight where everything is unlimited. The heal from what I understand costs them health and blood. Then again if they have corpses, they can just revive another minion so... I don't know.

    Edit: To clarify the part about them maintaining an offense.

    You smite/lightning the ghast.
    They heal the ghast. (Costs 1 second balance according to Rammus)
    They recover balance and continue offense on you.
    You recover balance from Smite/Lightning. Choose to attack the Vampire or the Ghast again.

    Rinse repeat.
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
  • RammusRammus
    From what I've experienced I can keep the ghast alive indefinitely except versus artied bash damage.
  • CorlinCorlin
    Rammus said:
    From what I've experienced I can keep the ghast alive indefinitely except versus artied bash damage.
    That's sad news. I'd love to see a couple logs both with and without the ghast, just so I can really study why Haven felt the need to put 'must' in caps. Isn't the ghast just the odd paralysis tick and some damage? Is it ungodly fast?
  • IlyonIlyon
    Those "odd paralysis ticks" are what makes the ghast so good.

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