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The Bloody Audit Thread

ArbreArbre Arbrelina JolieBraavos
in Sparring Grounds
This discussion was created from comments split from: Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE.
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Comments

  • MacavityMacavity Chicago, Il
    edited March 2013
    total rage on both!!

    - Reduced Warmth/Miasma/etc damage protection to 5%, down from 10%.
    - Death revival defences can no longer be stacked.
    “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
    Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” 
    ― Dr. Seuss, The Lorax

    Veritas says, "Sorry for breaking your system Macavity."
    Veritas says, "My boss fights crash Macavity's computer now."
  • FenrirFenrir
    Macavity said:
    total rage on both!!

    - Reduced Warmth/Miasma/etc damage protection to 5%, down from 10%.
    - Death revival defences can no longer be stacked.
    Stupid changes.
  • SeirSeir Seein' All the Things Getting high off your emotion

    Fenrir said:
    Macavity said:
    total rage on both!!

    - Reduced Warmth/Miasma/etc damage protection to 5%, down from 10%.
    - Death revival defences can no longer be stacked.
    Stupid changes.
    The second needed to happen. Too many instances of stacking starburst and starburst on top of soulcage and whatever else is ridiculous given how hard it is for some classes to pursue their offenses and then have to do it two more times.

    As for the first, I think it is going to impact certain classes a fair bit. It may be prudent to look at slightly enhancing class defense abilities by the 3% lost in their audits as compensation if we want to lessen reliance on endgame content while allowing classes like Lycanthrope and Syssin to not get bashed to death.
  • IllikaalIllikaal Pray Area
    edited March 2013
    Seir said:

    Fenrir said:
    Macavity said:
    total rage on both!!

    - Reduced Warmth/Miasma/etc damage protection to 5%, down from 10%.
    - Death revival defences can no longer be stacked.
    Stupid changes.
    The second needed to happen. Too many instances of stacking starburst and starburst on top of soulcage and whatever else is ridiculous given how hard it is for some classes to pursue their offenses and then have to do it two more times.

    As for the first, I think it is going to impact certain classes a fair bit. It may be prudent to look at slightly enhancing class defense abilities by the 3% lost in their audits as compensation if we want to lessen reliance on endgame content while allowing classes like Lycanthrope and Syssin to not get bashed to death.
    And monks. You forgot about monks. 

    But yes, if anything some classes were WAY too tanky due to how good Warmth is. Bloodborn, Daru, Luminaries and Praenomen likely being the largest culprits, in that order. I just hope there will be minor audit buffs to the squishier classes that already couldn't even survive well vs damage. even with old warmth. 
    "And finally, swear to Me: You will give your life to Dendara for you are Tiarna an-Kiar."
  • EzalorEzalor Emperor D'baen Canada
    I'm curious about why everyone keeps saying the vampire classes are so OP tanky. They have some resistance bonuses. Their defenses aren't much better than most other classes...is it because of mend? Don't forget they have a sip malus which really hurts.

    In bashing they definitely are OP tanky considering you can go Sapivi and have affinity but neither of those things applies to combat.

    I'm not claiming/whining either way, just curious why everyone keeps talking about Prae/BB like they can never die when I don't really see what makes it that way.
    image
  • SeirSeir Seein' All the Things Getting high off your emotion
    With Bloodborn, they're the only unarmored class that rivals some of the tankiest classes in terms of audit. Also, I got bashed to death by one the other day as a Lycanthrope. Granted, this Bloodborn had a Level 3 scythe and Level 3 strength gauntlets, but doing 25% of my health with a scythe slash from a class that isn't exactly known for physical damage output is a little weird though I'm getting off subject. Vampires are just presently good at everything in terms of survivability, afflicting, damage, utility, etc. While this downgrade wasn't specifically directed at them, it's a step in the right direction. I just wish it didn't hurt the classes that honestly did need the extra 3% from warmth/miasma/safeguard.
  • IlyonIlyon
    Seir said:
    Also, I got bashed to death by one the other day as a Lycanthrope.
    Nope! Wihle lycans are indeed the least tanky class in the game, you died to annihilate, not damage, because you clotted too much. It's a common mistake against Bloodborn.

  • EzalorEzalor Emperor D'baen Canada
    edited March 2013
    ********************************[ Resistances ]********************************
    Type           Defences     Miniskills   Armour       A. Total     
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Cutting        35%          0%           29%          43%
    Blunt          35%          0%           28%          43%
    Magic          50%          24%          0%           59%
    Fire           35%          24%          0%           50%
    Cold           45%          24%          0%           56%
    Electric       35%          24%          0%           50%
    Poison         25%          24%          0%           43%
    Psychic        15%          24%          0%           36%
    Asphyxiation   25%          24%          0%           43%
    *******************************************************************************

    That's my audit with all trans minis, resist rings, Miasma, blessing and Sapivi (so fire is 10% higher than it should be). No shield since we can't use those any more with big damage weapons.

    Is that really that much more than all other classes? Keep in mind there's a sip malus inherent in all that too. Comparing it to Haedyn (Teradrim) only Magic is higher and Fire is a lot lower. Combine that with a sip malus and I'd say the vampires are actually significantly less tanky than Teradrim. So again where does the idea come from that vamps are omg unkillable? From mend? 
    image
  • SeirSeir Seein' All the Things Getting high off your emotion
    Ilyon said:
    Seir said:
    Also, I got bashed to death by one the other day as a Lycanthrope.
    Nope! Wihle lycans are indeed the least tanky class in the game, you died to annihilate, not damage, because you clotted too much. It's a common mistake against Bloodborn.

    I'm aware I died to Annihilate, but I didn't really have a choice. Your slashes were doing 1,365 per slash plus 180 mana damage per whisper. Then, you had 300+ bleeding. So yeah, I was forced to clot or take even more damage.
  • FenrirFenrir
    All I know is that I have 7100 health and I can't bash Nazetu as Monk. Can't remember what I was hit for, but it was either 3k or 4k for one attack.
  • XavinXavin
    @Ezalor: Praenomen isn't quite as bad as it was before the removal of artifact armor, but they still can get one of the highest damage reductions in the game. And really, that audit is still very impressive, considering you're not using a shield.

    I would argue that ideally you -should- be using a small blade - they're faster and would let you boost your blunt and cutting reduction with more armor.

  • EzalorEzalor Emperor D'baen Canada
    Right, I'm not arguing at all that vampires aren't tanky. Just not getting the part where people say they are super omg OP unkillable tanky; while that's true in bashing, it isn't in PvP! They aren't even the tankiest class in the game, let alone the perceived status that they're super high above everyone else. 
    image
  • KerocKeroc A small cupboardAdministrator, Immortal

    It's an old perception that's probably persisted through the years from when Horkval praenomen were the bees knees.

     

    Bloodborn are pretty average, but a Sapivi Praenomen can be pretty tanky - nothing completely out of this world though. The spear/trident change is more of a bug fix to keep things in line with how new Forging is supposed to be designed. Personally I wasn't even aware until it was brought up in a report by one of the players, but it's better to set it right then to for me and other liaisons to worry about these one-handed large blade outliers.

  • EzalorEzalor Emperor D'baen Canada
    edited March 2013
    Keroc said:

    It's an old perception that's probably persisted through the years from when Horkval praenomen were the bees knees.

     

    Bloodborn are pretty average, but a Sapivi Praenomen can be pretty tanky - nothing completely out of this world though. The spear/trident change is more of a bug fix to keep things in line with how new Forging is supposed to be designed. Personally I wasn't even aware until it was brought up in a report by one of the players, but it's better to set it right then to for me and other liaisons to worry about these one-handed large blade outliers.

    Right, it made no sense at all that just one of the large blades happened to be onehanded, making all the other ones useless. But I've heard Illidan tell me Praenomen are unkillable and I've heard many people talking about the vampires like they are super OP in tankiness, just wanted to dispel that myth. Our audit isn't even higher than any other armoured class and we have a sip malus to deal with too!

    On a random note, would it be possible to make Insidiae's -15% Frenzy damage not apply to bashing? It's not a great bashing skill as it is but having that malus there pretty much forces you to go with weapons for bashing. It's not entirely feasible to ask to switch to Sapivi every time you want to bash and then having to scramble to find someone to make you Insidiae when a fight breaks out.

    EDIT: Disregard above, I clearly didn't do my homework. The -15% doesn't apply to bashing anyways.
    image
  • ArekaAreka Drifting in a sea of wenches' bosoms
    That audit rivals Templar with fullplate.
    image
  • MastemaMastema
    I can damage kill bloodborn as easy as I do other classes. As for the dstab concern, I seem to go through a fair amount so I suppose long fights are where it might hurt in the long run. 
    Carnifex failing since 2011. Fixes coming Soon ™
  • IllikaalIllikaal Pray Area
    edited March 2013

    Mastema said:
    I can damage kill bloodborn as easy as I do other classes. 
    XD If you did, then they probably deserved to die and likely didn't know what they were doing. 

    Ezalor said:
    Keroc said:

    It's an old perception that's probably persisted through the years from when Horkval praenomen were the bees knees.

     

    Bloodborn are pretty average, but a Sapivi Praenomen can be pretty tanky - nothing completely out of this world though. The spear/trident change is more of a bug fix to keep things in line with how new Forging is supposed to be designed. Personally I wasn't even aware until it was brought up in a report by one of the players, but it's better to set it right then to for me and other liaisons to worry about these one-handed large blade outliers.

    Right, it made no sense at all that just one of the large blades happened to be onehanded, making all the other ones useless. But I've heard Illidan tell me Praenomen are unkillable and I've heard many people talking about the vampires like they are super OP in tankiness, just wanted to dispel that myth. Our audit isn't even higher than any other armoured class and we have a sip malus to deal with too!

    On a random note, would it be possible to make Insidiae's -15% Frenzy damage not apply to bashing? It's not a great bashing skill as it is but having that malus there pretty much forces you to go with weapons for bashing. It's not entirely feasible to ask to switch to Sapivi every time you want to bash and then having to scramble to find someone to make you Insidiae when a fight breaks out.


    I could honestly care less about how tanky classes are when it comes to bashing. Any comparisons I make are in regards to PvP. While I did say Praenomen are unkillable when it comes to damage, i didn't -literally- mean unkillable, but you are more likely than not never going to bash Praenomen, or ESPECIALLY a Bloodborn to death. Ever. Even in groups, it takes a considerably longer time to drop a Praenomen or a Bloodborn than any other class that I've seen, unless you're Luna with old Soul Substitute >.>. 

    Edit: We're derailing really hard. Can we move these to the existing 3/34/13 Liaison patch discussion thread thing whatchamaycallit.

    "And finally, swear to Me: You will give your life to Dendara for you are Tiarna an-Kiar."
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander Portland
    Rage at my complete loss of combat ability. I dunno what it is - being rusty, new system, everyone else on new systems, changes to classes that I'm still learning about - but I can't seem to maintain an offense for the life of me these days.

    Would like to try out another class, perhaps, but my choices are pretty limited - I think Teradrim and Syssin would fit my combat style, but I'd have to go Undead for the first, and get 250k gold saved up for the second, and Moi has always been kinda against personally being Undead and I keep spending my money on making the Carnifex GH not look like it was written by a dyslexic on drugs.
  • LinLin Blackbird The Moonglade
    You might really like Teradrim, Moi. It's an extremely varied offense without being super complicated; very fun to fight as.
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander Portland
    I sparred someone and it looked pretty fun with the changes to limbs. Buuuut you have to be undead, apparently, and the reanimation curing grosses Moi out. It'd have to be a big long change before I'd take her down that road.
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight School
    Moirean said:
    I sparred someone and it looked pretty fun with the changes to limbs. Buuuut you have to be undead, apparently, and the reanimation curing grosses Moi out. It'd have to be a big long change before I'd take her down that road.
    >> Find a less zealous Teradrim!
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander Portland
    edited March 2013
    Haven said:
    Moirean said:
    I sparred someone and it looked pretty fun with the changes to limbs. Buuuut you have to be undead, apparently, and the reanimation curing grosses Moi out. It'd have to be a big long change before I'd take her down that road.
    >> Find a less zealous Teradrim!
    I was told that it was Ivoln who enforced it. I mean, I can poke around and maybe find a mechanical loophole (Carnifex have a mutual apprenticeship treaty with them for example, where they forgot to put in a caveat about Undeath), but I don't want to undercut the class's outlook like that.
  • TeaniTeani Shadow Mistress Sweden
    Undead Teradrim makes sense, since they were created by Ivoln. Enforcing Undeath might have been part of the deal to get Ivoln back as Patron after allowing living members into the guild.



  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight School
    The roleplay might be interesting if nothing else.
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
  • SaritaSarita Empress of Bahir'an The Pillars of the Earth
    Ivoln has also said he doesn't care about apprentices being living or undead. It's strictly a guild thing from his perspective. Living Carnifex have been apprenticed under the treaty before.
  • OsmondOsmond
    If I was told correctly, Teradrim will only work if you are undead or vampire, like Praeno and Bloodborn
    image
  • SaritaSarita Empress of Bahir'an The Pillars of the Earth
    That used to be true, but it's been changed. I'm not sure whether that was in the last revamp or if it happened before then, so I can't say how long it's been.
  • LinLin Blackbird The Moonglade
    I've actually never heard of it being true. You had to be undead to acquire the class, but it remained functional even if you were cured.
  • MacavityMacavity Chicago, Il
    hmm sorry to be late to this one, but Sarita is right.   Teradrim can be Living or Undead as far as having Class.  Though it is in our rules not to apprentice Living at all.  As for the guild Undead for sure!  lol

    Also someone said that an audit was rather good, so I am curious, and maybe this belongs in a different thread but what about mine??  Mind you no artifacts to boost these except Artifact Tower Shield 50/50

    ********************************[ Resistances ]********************************
    Type           Defences     Miniskills   Armour       A. Total     
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Cutting        45%          0%           66%          61%
    Blunt          45%          0%           65%          61%
    Magic          25%          24%          0%           43%
    Fire           45%          24%          0%           56%
    Cold           45%          24%          0%           56%
    Electric       35%          24%          0%           50%
    Poison         35%          24%          0%           50%
    Psychic        15%          24%          0%           36%
    Asphyxiation   25%          24%          0%           43%
    *******************************************************************************
    “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
    Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” 
    ― Dr. Seuss, The Lorax

    Veritas says, "Sorry for breaking your system Macavity."
    Veritas says, "My boss fights crash Macavity's computer now."
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander Portland
    Hmm, cool. I might try getting some RP to see if it's possible to be considered!
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