Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
- 3.7K All Categories
- 3K The Midnight Age
- 757 Announce posts
- 125 Newbies
- 6 Class Guides
- 804 Harpy's Head Tavern
- 57 Echo Canyon
- 310 Self-Affirmations
- 163 Town Crier
- 135 The Exchange
- 167 Sparring Grounds
- Combat Guides
- 30 Combat Logs
- 188 Idea Box
- 9 Classleads
- 581 Roleplay Logs
- 107 Aetolia Development
- 5 The Void
- 744 Miscellaneous
- 9 Announcements
- 417 OOC Chat
- 217 Tech Talk
- 47 Scripts
Looking for more active discussion? Join our Discord at https://discord.gg/x2s7fY6
Comments
While some people might always try to act on what they hear through insight, I prefer to consider it like another sense, like reading someone's body language. This means I'm less likely to respond to the exact thoughts of my rp opponent, as instead I try to interpret a sensation. If it's too difficult to do that, there would be less chance for a reaction, and I'd likely just consider it as an enriching rp experience for me, personally. It's a bit less invasive, I think.
Beyond that, you're advocating for a tool that many people make use of and enjoy in their roleplay to be removed because you simply don't like that they have access to it. But as @Sibatti pointed out, how many people actually made use of think prior to the insight ability being created? Most people didn't even know that that command existed.
No one is forcing you to use think. If you insist on using something like it and having it be completely secret, most clients have a way to create an echoing alias. But the example you come up with is so...absurd. You literally are stating that you're not willing to engage with anyone who MIGHT be using insight. In this specific scenario, it would be your loss, not hers because frankly I can't imagine interacting with someone so hung up over something like this would be enjoyable.
Sure, this could go the way of deceit skills but I would like to point out that those rolls pretty much always go in favor of the person doing the deceit. I would expect that if they did some sort of SECRETTHINK verb detection would almost always go in favor of the person making use of insight.
I deeply resent the notion of 'DEEPTHINK' or 'THINKSECRET' because it means everyone will just transition to using that and then we'll have a 'you may hear THINKSECRET' artifact in 2 to 5 years. Taking avenues of writing or performance away - or, more specifically, avenues of audienceship (?) - seems like an overall bad idea when those that don't want their thoughts read should be the one to suffer the onus of just not using a totally optional RP command.
We need a "hey, I'm trying to speak to our storyteller/GM/DM" button - but it should not come at the expense of Insight usage or class flavor. In a private discussion, I proposed putting a cooldown on it so it doesn't become an alternative to THINK with less avenues of spying. I still stand by that after a few hours of consideration.
There seems to be two main camps here regarding the think command:
- An inclusive use where think is primarily used to tell/enhance a story for both the audience and the player. It's more of a writing tool to tell a story and showcase insights into the character that might not normally be seen via emotes.
- An exclusive use where think is primarily used to assist the player in maintaining their character. It's more of a role-playing method to keep in character like playing music in the background. I can see the merit in wanting to keep this private.
I don't see a problem with adding a PRIVATE command for those that want it. At the end of the day though, THINK is a writing tool and as a writer, -you- are in control of what you type and input into the game. As Sibatti's already outlined, there are clever uses and methods that can be applied to THINK's usage while still denying people information.Other THINK examples could include:
THINK "Wow, Sibatti sure is crazy." vs THINK Though the mental image of Sibatti begins to form, a deeper thought occurs just beyond the surface; simply out of reach. vs THINK "Hmmm..." vs THINK Your mind churns with thoughts well guarded.
The mileage you might get depends entirely on the effort you want to put into the writing prompts but each are valid. It's all about what -you- the writer are trying to articulate to the audience if at all.
That aside I do like the idea of a separate command that allows players to subtly communicate with admin in the room with them. A PRIVATE command could be a two birds, one stone deal.
Any type of cooldown or special restriction would be a bit silly and strange for something like this in my opinion.
It really doesn't look as GOTCHA as you think.
Also, it's kind of an argument that we mostly seem to be agreeing on? Just the method of its solution is in debate. So it's kind of weirdly passive aggressive for...no good reason.
You're right though, no one is forcing me to use THINK. However, the ability of Insight generally stops me from wanting to use THINK because as Haven pointed out perfectly, I prefer a more exclusive approach to THINK rather than inclusive. It's character thought process to me, not "Read my mind so you can jump on me for it" process.
Also, I'm notadvocating for the removal of Insight or Think. I like using THINK and know many players (I've read all the RP logs) of people who use THINK and am of the firm belief that it's an absolutely wonderful tool to use for RP. What I am advocating for is a way to allow players a way to mechanically shield their thoughts from those who CAN use Insight, Sliver, Monitor, or other thought reading skills. You and Iesid are both correct in that we -don't- need a DEEPSECRET, PRIVATE, or DEEPTHINK command for privacy when you could just as easily create an artifact or enchantment. If they can make an artifact like the Bubble Wand to stop people from premote touching you, an artifact or enchantment can be made to prevent people from reading another player's THINK. You and Iesid are both saying that it's a non-issue to have THINKs invaded, but it's also a non-issue to create an actual countermethod for Insight and THINK listening abilities. Had this thread never been made, I never would have said anything and continued on my way... but since we're talking about it, let's talk.
That's twice now. Like I told Sibatti @Iesid, do not bring in that extremist mentality of "If you don't like Y, then don't do X". It's not conducive to a proper conversation/discussion/debate, because I can bring up multiple situations where that could/should have been applied but wasn't and instead people got their minds in a bunch and things happened anyway. So let's not with that line of thinking. Thanks!
Lastly, @Haven ABSOLUTELY NAILED IT!! While there is nothing wrong with allowing your character's thoughts to be heard, there is nothing wrong with allowing your character's thoughts to be protected as well. Not everyone wants to have their thoughts on blast, but still want to enjoy the use of THINK without resorting to the use of echos which have no mechanical implementation to the storytelling and inclusiveness of a Celani.
With that said - I'm fully sympathetic towards people who might want a separate venue to keep their character's thoughts more private, and would absolutely support the implementation of an enchantment or separate command for that case. I think it would just be something people would have to be a bit educated on the difference of, because I know a lot of people do use THINK for RP, on purpose, the way I do. It shouldn't hurt to have more options, and while some people might transition to the hypothetical STHINK anyway I think (is this even a word anymore?) otherwise those same people might just transition to not using THINK at all, which is a shame.
I think.
Even before bell tattoo picked up Insight (which I kind of dislike cuz it outs people as having Insight immediately), if I had a suspicion that someone had it up, I'd use the THINK command like "The shifting thoughts inside Sryaen's mind are hazy and unreadable, as thought he was consciously drawing a curtain across his mind". And even though I'd heard about Insight via OOC means on web and clans and such, Sry didn't know people could read thoughts that way so I played.him oblivious for a bit until he blew up on @Roux one day for parroting back to him exactly what he was thinking about.
I personally don't have Insight, so any THINKs I do are purely for the benefit of others, and I use them to further add some depth to any RP I find myself in. Use the tool to your advantage and get it to work for you. That's really the best I can suggest.
Tell me how I'm doing!
To further that: I'm always more likely to watch you if you're in my order or interacting with me or mine. But. I have definitely popped in to comment/react on things that have nothing to do with me/mine just because someone thought something interesting. What someone thinks aimed at me is very different from the sorts of errant thoughts that many people have, that inspire whole conversations and new directions.
If in doubt, please refer to the Forum Rules! If in more doubt, please reach out to a moderator.
Act as you would wish to be treated.
"It costs you nothing to assume that we are acting in good faith."
Alias pattern: ^f(?:think|\<|\>) (.+)
local thought = matches[2] thought = thought:sub(1, 1):upper() .. thought:sub(2, -1) if not thought:match("[\.\?\!\'\"\-]$") then thought = thought .. "." end cecho("<ansi_light_black>You think to yourself:\n<ansi_cyan>" .. thought) send("\n")However, from a third person view, I believe (I also don't have Insight) it would show as
Jun just thought:
Smelly perfume. Who wears this?
If you meant more like examples of the sort of thing you can put in THINK, I think @Teani had some good examples at the top of this page, and there's some examples in Roleplay Logs too that I've looked at.