Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE

Seir

Lin is a horrible person. It is known.

Arbre

It is known.

Alexina

It is known.

Lin

THIS IS THE WORST THREAD

Xavin

Yes it is. It is known.

Seir

It is known.

Angwe

Oh, I thought this was a different reference. #Oops

Kiyotan

Lin

Oh my god shut up before I ban you all

Illikaal

It is known.

Raeche

Bullies in the game who hide behind 'rules' to make life miserable for you.

Arbre

Shift.  I wish they made it balance OR equilibrium, to balance it out, not balance AND equilibrium.  The skill is all but useless now.

Illikaal

Arbre said:

Shift.  I wish they made it balance OR equilibrium, to balance it out, not balance AND equilibrium.  The skill is all but useless now.

It's....really not. I'm going to assume you're referring to bashing, since I don't see you PKing all that much. In either case, be it PK or bashing, all you have to do is shift/serenity BEFORE you get to a point where you would otherwise die on the next hit. If you have 5k max health, and you're taking roughly 2k damage per hit and you're tracking the time lapses between each time the mob hits you, then just shift when your health gets to be around 2k or so. You'll have plenty of cushion, and shift/serenity won't heal you back up to full health at that point in the first place. I like it the way it is, personally. You're forcing yourself to lose a round of offense for a round of defense instead of having a really good oh bat guana button that you can press at anytime you're about to die. 

Arbre

Ironically, my shift alias is SHI, and that's not a shortcut for SHIFT.

Haven

Feeling like you're out of juice.

Calipso

wishing was a "lol" button on the forums .

Must express my  joy.

Haven

That's what I tend to use the like button for.

Kiyotan

You reach a hand outwards and close your eyes, seeking for the ethereal energies of the leylines around you.

You detect 0 major foci:

You detect 0 lesser foci:

You detect 2 minor foci.

There are a total of 2 foci globally.

And they're both inaccessible. Please finish rebuilding Azdun!

Nola

How personal crafting in terms of rejections/the latest update to the rules that some crafters are trying to abide by/get clarification on, has gotten. Crafting isn't personal, and it shouldn't be personal. Its just a facet of the game we're trying to enjoy, but like most other parts of the game, there are guidelines and rules we have to follow, even though we may not agree with them or like them. 

I don't like that the people trying to explain X isn't viable anymore because of Rule X in the official, recently updated help scroll - where the rule is visible for everyone to read and see that - are getting unnecessary backlash. Instead of going 'hey, these people aren't trying to make our lives as crafters more difficult, they're just having to go by the same boundaries as everyone else'. Because if we knowingly, or maybe even accidentally, approve something that is against the rules, we could get in trouble or have our approval privileges revoked. 

I just think things would go a lot smoother if people were generally more okay with being asked to have something checked, or not assuming the person rejecting/questioning something is out to get them. That is to say, it would benefit everyone to have a clear yes or no on something that is uncertain, I think, at least.  And I'm sorry if some of the newer crafters are feeling overly slighted or upset by rejections or something similar - don't get discouraged. Its better to not take it to heart, and focus on the positives more than the negatives. There is a lot to be loved about our crafting system and community, its not all angryfaces and rage.

Haydyn

@Nola Amen, amen, amen.   And as a note to newer crafters that may see this, my first food design was a fish. It was rejected 13 times. I finally deleted it and made a salad. I've not made fish since.

Raeche

Nola said:

How personal crafting in terms of rejections/the latest update to the rules that some crafters are trying to abide by/get clarification on, has gotten. Crafting isn't personal, and it shouldn't be personal. Its just a facet of the game we're trying to enjoy, but like most other parts of the game, there are guidelines and rules we have to follow, even though we may not agree with them or like them. 

I don't like that the people trying to explain X isn't viable anymore because of Rule X in the official, recently updated help scroll - where the rule is visible for everyone to read and see that - are getting unnecessary backlash. Instead of going 'hey, these people aren't trying to make our lives as crafters more difficult, they're just having to go by the same boundaries as everyone else'. Because if we knowingly, or maybe even accidentally, approve something that is against the rules, we could get in trouble or have our approval privileges revoked. 

I just think things would go a lot smoother if people were generally more okay with being asked to have something checked, or not assuming the person rejecting/questioning something is out to get them. That is to say, it would benefit everyone to have a clear yes or no on something that is uncertain, I think, at least.  And I'm sorry if some of the newer crafters are feeling overly slighted or upset by rejections or something similar - don't get discouraged. Its better to not take it to heart, and focus on the positives more than the negatives. There is a lot to be loved about our crafting system and community, its not all angryfaces and rage.

I want to say thank you to the hardworking approvers out there.

For every one rejection I get which has me angsting and raging, there are nine that goes through the queue within 24 hours or less. For that, I am very appreciative that we have people volunteering their time to do this sort of work. Thank you.

Alexina

Re @Nola:
I agree with all of that. At the same time, many rejections I've seen recently are something like "this is wrong, fix it". If I was new at crafting and was unfamiliar with the rules, this would frustrate me to no end. I think it would be extremely beneficial to the crafting community if those people who reject designs were taking more of a customer support approach than a sledgehammer-to-the-face approach. This is somewhat of an exaggeration and not always the case, but it just seems to me that people are a whole less helpful when actually writing the rejections compared to when I first learned tailoring.

Compare: "this is wrong, fix it", with "this is wrong: a pair of pants have been cut from silk needs to change to a pair of pants has been cut from silk", with "this is wrong because 'a pair' is a singular noun and not plural, please change 'have been cut' to 'has been cut'". Three different kinds of rejections, and I rarely see the latter one much these days. Maybe this is something we all could keep in mind?

On a sidenote, a staggering amount of grammatical errors get through the queue. This became especially clear to me when I submitted some of my designs to Achaea's crafting system and some of them had to resubmitted three or four times before getting them through. I don't really have any good solution to that specific problem that would not put the burden of crafting approvals on a very small group of designated people as opposed to all the crafters as a whole.

Raeche

Alexina said:

Re @Nola:
I agree with all of that. At the same time, many rejections I've seen recently are something like "this is wrong, fix it". If I was new at crafting and was unfamiliar with the rules, this would frustrate me to no end. I think it would be extremely beneficial to the crafting community if those people who reject designs were taking more of a customer support approach than a sledgehammer-to-the-face approach. This is somewhat of an exaggeration and not always the case, but it just seems to me that people are a whole less helpful when actually writing the rejections compared to when I first learned tailoring.

Compare: "this is wrong, fix it", with "this is wrong: a pair of pants have been cut from silk needs to change to a pair of pants has been cut from silk", with "this is wrong because 'a pair' is a singular noun and not plural, please change 'have been cut' to 'has been cut'". Three different kinds of rejections, and I rarely see the latter one much these days. Maybe this is something we all could keep in mind?

On a sidenote, a staggering amount of grammatical errors get through the queue. This became especially clear to me when I submitted some of my designs to Achaea's crafting system and some of them had to resubmitted three or four times before getting them through. I don't really have any good solution to that specific problem that would not put the burden of crafting approvals on a very small group of designated people as opposed to all the crafters as a whole.

Heh, I agree. I was thinking about it just this morning, and you seem to have stolen the words from my mouth (and brain). Got an example that I'd like to share. (If any of you were the one who wrote this rejection, please don't take it personally! I appreciate you looking through the design. And getting a rejection with productive feedback is far better than nothing).

"stylized lilies are not commonly called Syndicate Lillies. Maybe in the guild, but not at large. The guild does not have sole providence over lilies being stylized in such a fashion. While you can certainly claim it as a sigil of the Syndicate, it is NOT commonly known as the 

Syndicate Lily."

By the time I reached the mid-sentence capitalisation, sledgehammer had just hit my face. Nearly like the rejector was going 'YOU. The AUDACITY of claiming it is commonly-known. It is NOT commonly known. STOP MAKING UP CRAP LIKE THAT.'

This issue happened way back from before I'm a crafter. The Syndicate's emblem is a fleur-de-lis. Back then, the 'fleur-de-lis' was rejected for being 'a French word'. It was brought to Galleus or Razmael (should be Galleus, if I don't recall wrong) and he said it was fine. But because it did not get communicated, Becue later made a post ruling against it. She said to call it a 'stylised lily', which I did. [@lin should be able to explain, though I'm not sure if he wants to get into this again =p]

Anyway, fair enough. So I changed it, not wanting to get into it again. Then, the reason I used the words 'commonly-known' is that the stylised lily, or fleur-de-lis, or Syndicate lily is a guild emblem. One would expect in Aetolia that it should be RP'ed (even if factually the playerbase isn't made aware), that guild emblems are commonly known. If there were a design from the Bahkatu saying 'A tiny bear hugging a disused honey comb, commonly known to represent the Bahkatu Sleuth', I'd have just given the benefit of doubt and let them have it.

And that is my point I guess. Linked to having rejectors be a little nicer and understanding with their comments, I'd also like more benefit of doubt thrown our way rather than be quick to say no, no NO!

Crafting is an exercise in creativity and pushing boundaries. I think we should be slow to say no, and more ready to provide alternative solutions. If you think something doesn't work, offer an alternative, then think about whether you are absolutely right - if you aren't necessarily 100% correct either, then let someone else chime in, or give the crafter the benefit of doubt.

That's how I think the process should work instead.

Ferrik

Raeche said:

Crafting is an exercise in creativity and pushing boundaries. I think we should be slow to say no, and more ready to provide alternative solutions. If you think something doesn't work, offer an alternative, then think about whether you are absolutely right - if you aren't necessarily 100% correct either, then let someone else chime in, or give the crafter the benefit of doubt.

It seems from what I can tell that some people go off of their own opinion more than what has been established. Because of that, there are cases where first something got accepted, only to later be rejected in a different design.

Guilds, Houses, Cities, Organisations can have a symbol, crest or some kind of motif to identify themselves with. This however is a plastic thing. New people take lead and want to 'change things up'. They can design a new symbol which could include an existing object, weapon or living thing as a way of representing the merits of the object in the organisation.

In no way has that ever meant that the sun is owned by Japan or that all maple leaves belong to Canada, let alone that all bulls (painted red or otherwise) belong to the Red Bull company. (Since y'know, purple ones would belong to Milka. Gogo Europe!)

Design Guidelines says:
 - If you're going to claim a design is for a guild, house,
   city, or other organization, make sure you describe in the
   examined why it is. If you want it to be a cloak with the
   symbol of Arion, describe the symbol of Arion. If it bears
   the crest of House Nebre'seir, describe the crest.

My theory however is that in and around the holidays, people absolutely lose all common sense, politeness and logical thinking skills. Leaving only personal opinion and rudeness. It's like a zombie epidemic. But we're past that now, so let's get back on track. In closing, not just about crafting but in general I would like to say:



This public service announcement has been brought to you by crocodiles.

Rivas

I am getting sick and goddamn tired of all these stupid flags lying around, from both sides. At this point, can we just set aside the obvious crafting rules-breakage and just admit that the whole thing is a giant pissing contest between two people? Hmm?

Raeche

I don't know why you're assuming animosity. I'm personally liking the interaction, for once, with the other side. This is one of the few ways something more can be sparked off that "you Syssin, you ban from city".

I don't think it's a pissing contest, and I, as a player, am not getting offended or worked up over it. On the contrary, I'm pretty psyched.

@daskalos, what do you think? This thing can't be one-sided though, so if you agree with Rivas, then I'll stop on my part.

Daskalos

Uh... my flags don't break crafting rules... I dropped the flags because it's something Daskalos would do, preaching to the masses. I also have the unfair advantage of unlimite artifact mushroom sigil.

Raeche

My flags don't break crafting rules either. I don't actually know what Rivas is talking about on this point.

I don't personally drop the flags, I have numerous agents to help me with that, but all in all, it is something that the Syndicate as an organisation would do. Both the angle of publicity and recruitment, as well as pointing out hypocrisy within the ranks in Enorian with the intention of sowing discord.

On that note, I don't see at all how it is a pissing contest, considering it touches on the deeper issues. One flag points out the prevailing corruption in Enorian, where many of the citizens are Syssin-trained. That is an angle that could well deserve story development.

Daskalos

Of note, I find this to be particularly distasteful and an abuse of mechanics.

At the beginning of a magnificent steel bridge. (Raphaelan Highway.) (11862)
Occasional drops of rain fall to the ground from a sky grey with pregnant clouds. A blue and gold flag of the Illuminai flaps in the smallest breeze here. The blue and gold flag of Enorian flaps proudly in the breeze here. A black flag stands proudly here, depicting the limp, hanging form of a Syssin.

probe 144433
This flag has black as its base colour, lined with red and gold thread in its edges. Stitched together from rough, tough strips of cloth, the strong fabric billows fiercely in the strongest wind. In the center of the flag, a cloaked figure has been sewn into the fabric, depicted hanging from a professionally-knotted noose of vine. Curiously though, a white, ethereal mace hangs from his belt, skillfully painted, translucent against its owner's limp form. On his chest, in block, child-like script, is the colloquialism, 'LIGHTER'.
Embroidered on it are the words:
"Listen to Mr. Flag!"
"Seek the Light."
"Abandon Artifice!!"
It has 142 months of usefulness left.
It weighs 15 ounce(s).
It bears the distinctive mark of Ms. Raeche.
There is a flame-shaped sigil firmly attached.
An anti-Syssin flag is holding:
"flame sigil41291"        a flame-shaped sigil
It is holding 1 objects.

--

To a character, the dropped description is a shortened version of what a probe would be. You are trying to trick players, not characters, with this design and that is just bad crafting. This would be like making an item that says "A cup is here" and then you probe it and it's a fountain.

It's one thing to have flag wars, it's another thing to abuse the crafting system, and not to call you out, Raeche, but you're the name I hear from *everyone* lately about constant issues with crafting. True or not, I dunno, but I'm hoping this is just an oversight, that you typo'd, and  then someone got lazy with their approval and didn't notice that you made it an Anti-Syssin flag instead of an Anti-Luminary flag.

 

Kiyotan

Yeah, I tried to make sense of it and just couldn't. Nothing about the extended desc really..demonstrates that it's a Syssin being depicted, which is what the dropped desc implies. Not sure how that made it past the queue!

Unless, the fact that the figure is cloaked is meant to imply that he is a Syssin? I mean, the examined desc makes the flag seem very Anti-Luminary, but the embroidered wording makes it Anti-Syssin. This is a very confusing thing. Perhaps..it is a Syssin multiclassed as a Luminary? But then, why include the "Seek the light!" phrase if it's both Anti-Luminary and--

--Nope. Decided I don't care. This is headache-inducing. Whatever its intent, it shouldn't have been approved as is.