Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE

Omei

I have to say that I simply cannot understand the backlash from the Lifer side of the game. The charm is a valid PK cause.

PK them back. Form raids. Do something.

Ishin

You guys could always like. 'So and so stabbed me' /puts up bounty.

People get so caught up in needing instant gratification. I assure you, I won't give a shit if I have 20 bounties in Enorian and Duiran both. I fight almost all of you every time there's a lesser anyway. They'll be gone in a couple of days if you all buck up and turn in bounties like you're supposed to.

Nola

Hi. This is my Rage. My Rage. As a player. Not a character. If my character wants to react that way ICly, she will. But no one is going to tell me how to play a game - my rage is fairly justified, given that 'fighting back' even, isn't going to change anything about this mechanic's use.

Ilyon

While your character should absolutely be reacting to this somehow, I am really puzzled at the OOC hatred - it literally is just a message with no actual effect on your character at all.

Nola

'No actual effect'?

Tell that to the novice that got slaughtered over it. Unless this is okay now!

Mephistoles

Just because it's a rage doesn't mean that it's shielded from criticism, critique, or commentary.

And @Ilyon has it right. You can track down these people and PK (or at least try) later, or do nothing, or anything in between. Take it as an opportunity to talk to characters you might not ordinarily talk to. Or attempt to engage in RP or PK or whatever it is that strikes your fancy. Or don't stand somewhere where they can get to you if it really bothers you.

Xarian

Nola said:

'No actual effect'?

Tell that to the novice that got slaughtered over it. Unless this is okay now!

None of us doing it have any idea what you're talking about. Do you have a name? Or is this literally a "think of the children" defense? If someone did kill a novice, then they should have had a reason why, or it's a problem. But nobody knows what you mean by novices being slaughtered; we don't kill people we use the charm on, in fact as far as we know we're bending over backwards to not be overly aggressive in a PK fashion.

Nola

Enjoy these griefing festivities then, since it's obviously too difficult to even try to understand why this is frustrating or upsetting for so many players. I laid it out, but apparently, the only thing that's going to be seen is 'I don't like this' instead of why it's a problem.

No one likes Godmoding RP. That's what this is.

Aarbrok

In all honesty, I think the handling of the event by the Gods overseeing it has been done very poorly, and that is a completely honest statement. I think the players are not the problem as they are doing exactly what Gods have asked of them, and designed a quest for them to do.

It was a dropped ball by the event creation, and the lack of communication between the various factions with an item that demonstrates breaking the skin of that who it is used on and offering a visibly drained RP effect, which is in essence an attack.

You have a Goddess @Iosyne, who has urged her order to go out and collect essence under the guise of "testing" for the Shadowplague, who wont let other factions research the items, nor allow us to RP gathering information so that we can better understand an event that only her followers and Severns are able to do.

I mean this with all honesty, dont blame the players who are doing what they were asked to do by someone who is supposed to support the Roleplay environment. They are doing their Roleplay, sadly the ball was dropped in how we are able to deal with it from the outside.

Events are supposed to encourage interaction, not force people to hide...

Mephistoles

Why is this anymore God modding RP than coming up to someone and using any other mechanically aggressive action?

Rashar

I just want to say I said 1 day ago that there were going to be 3636 rage posts about this.

Come on, guys. Only a few more to go.

Also, FWIW - I started setting bounties for it and was immediately yelled at and accused of abusing bounty system, by more than one person. This is why it took us so long, and this is why I suggested against it for two days. That, and I can easily see it turning into BL/Spines starting to bounty for harmless stuff too. There is a reason we regulate bounties as players, and that's because they get stupid. Also - you're walking around sticking a bunch of non-pkers (and most of you are PKers) and just going with, "Come at me bro" as a valid response. Sure, it's valid. You also know it's somewhat prickish.

ETA: Yay for Extermination Argument 2.0

Trager

All I know is it's annoying, to say the least. Sure, there may be a three hour cooldown on the device, but that doesn't stop the four people in the space of an hour running in, trying to spam it on you, then running out. Oh, and take into account no one seems to be marking down who got tested where, so of course at least three of them are going to be back within the hour to try and sneak the test in.

My only thing would be if they actually tried putting some damn RP into it. Half the people, little ones included, have no idea what the hell it is even for. @Riluo told a Daru last night that Xarian had blooded and defiled her in some sexual way (As was explained to me) and that's just disgusting. You all claim you're 'RPing' on your side of it, that we aren't privy to your RP, but it would not kill you to try? My character is supposed to -support- the damn thing, but it is getting ridiculously out of hand, maybe even impossible to actually -enjoy-.

As for everyone's go-to advice being, "PK dem bak yo!" Well, just shut up. Seriously. It's the lamest rebuttal that I can possible envision being used here. @Ishin, @Xarian, @blah and @blah and @blah - What is it, the majority of Iosyne + Severn's order? Yeah, because random people want to fight -that- and start the inevitable wheel of troll "U keel me I keel u bak noaw."

Edit: Wait, yes, I recall the conversation more fully now: When Ianea asked @Xarian what the test was for, all she got back in return was some spiel about if she tests positive, she'll have to inform her sexual partners. Then, queue Riluo's response. So -that- is what good RP is, guys! Sweeeet.

Ezalor

I almost feel like there'd be less OOC rage if I went around attacking people at random than at what mechanically amounts to a premote.

Kerryn

I think a large part of it, is a sense of helplessness with it. Sure, we can bounty you for it. But it doesn't stop you. Duiran does it and it's -still- continuing. So, we're left going "Well, nothing we can do but hide/stop playing till this blows over." I know I can't pkill any of you all coming and testing, I'd get squished like a grape. I can try and bug a pkiller to hunt you all down. But it doesn't effect you guys enough to make it stop. So, we can pretend that pkill is a realistic avenue. But, honestly can any of you say that if you get pkilled, you're going to stop? Because I doubt it, Ishin himself said he didn't care how many he got. More fun for him when he pkills those trying to collect the bounty. Yet, for those of us who don't enjoy pkill? We're left where we were originally, feeling helpless about the situation. Which is a pretty un-fun feeling to be honest and that's what has most of the lifers upset, in my opinion.

Yarel

I call BS. I bent over backwards to try to be decent about the process. I even spent nearly an hour answering Cronides questions, and letting him see me get tested by Xarian. Then I set up at NoT and sent a market tell that I was testing any who were interested in being tested. The response was Exayne coming and attacking me. I'm fine with that, but don't start bawing about our methods, when attempts to be decent about it are met in that way. So yeah, I got aggressive after I got bountied. Seems fair to me

Aarbrok

On my hand @Ezalor‌ it is knowing what the item actually does IC. It is knowing also that the premote, breaks the skin and constitutes as an attack. Secondly it is the fact that it is being vehemently protested anyone from the outside gain information on the event, so much so that Aarbrok managed to get information by means of going Crazybrok(TM)

He managed to get his hands on two of the charms for research after being thrown from the City in efforts to understand this better, to which Iosyne said NO, took the items after he refused to hand them over because if it was for the original purpose (The one he was informed NO SPOILERS) why wouldnt the Cabal want to Research and help out. Then he was killed, then it was informed IC, that Iosyne isn't permitting others to participate or learn of this.

Taking the information then IC that he has, he has to make the assumption something is shady and roleplay upon that, which leads to less than savoury response and a bunch of Malarky from the Syssin who say its just a test, full well knowing otherwise.

So...limiting participation by divine intervention has led to sour feeling internally on this side, and not knowing at all has really soured it on the other. I know in Bloodloch you guys are just chomping at the bit for conflict, and mostly so with minimal RP and a lulzy neckstab and flee...save for Riluo who actually did Rp with me after I called him out.

But I reiterate its being poorly managed to build Roleplay and completely versed as a one sided thing, almost selfishly so. For a game fueled by Roleplay choices, having gods slap your hand and say no is not helping the environment.

Teani

The reactions got out of hand rather quickly because of the lack of information and quick tempers involved. In this situation, the reactions from people (confusion, aggravation, frustration and rage) were quite legit though. People want to be able to RP their characters accordingly and here there doesn't seem to be much leeway for alternative routes. Saying "just PK back" to a non-com appears to me to be quite insulting.

You all know there are PKers as well as non-coms in this game. PK is not everyone's favorite solution to a conflict. Granted, it might be to some, but discussing, arguing, understanding and emoting is actually what other people prefer, since they -know- they can't stand up to major PKers. Going after a non-com with a PK-offensible action to create a conflict won't really fly with everyone.

Nola

Really, a lot of this is just coming off as an excuse for some people who want PK conflict.

That's fine, really - it's healthy, even. But not in this situation, not to this degree, where you're essentially going around harassing every player you can - plenty of noncom RPers who want no part of combat (otherwise, sure, PK is a likely response). It's not part of the game I currently enjoy, and have made a point of not actively participating in.

I'm rusty, and I was never particularly good at it to begin with - so do I want to waste my time basically my character to death over something that was -forced- onto her with no way to react or respond in a reasonable timeframe? (That is the definition here of Godmoding that I am using. The act happens far too quickly, and then what? You're gone, back to phase or where ever else. That's nice for you. How is it not unreasonable to expect someone to be able to stop you? But we can't except with shield and that means we can't move, and there's the problem).

Beyond that, yeah, the RP behind this entire event is cloudy and poorly managed - and I'm not saying by the Divine, the players have just as much a responsibility in how they utilize it. Would you like to be swarmed by multiple people who are seemingly not really keeping track of their 'testing' several times throughout your play period, interrupting everything you're doing? Nah. I doubt that.

Xarian

Aarbrok said:

On my hand @Ezalor‌ it is knowing what the item actually does IC. It is knowing also that the premote, breaks the skin and constitutes as an attack. Secondly it is the fact that it is being vehemently protested anyone from the outside gain information on the event, so much so that Aarbrok managed to get information by means of going Crazybrok(TM)

He managed to get his hands on two of the charms for research after being thrown from the City in efforts to understand this better, to which Iosyne said NO, took the items after he refused to hand them over because if it was for the original purpose (The one he was informed NO SPOILERS) why wouldnt the Cabal want to Research and help out. Then he was killed, then it was informed IC, that Iosyne isn't permitting others to participate or learn of this.

Taking the information then IC that he has, he has to make the assumption something is shady and roleplay upon that, which leads to less than savoury response and a bunch of Malarky from the Syssin who say its just a test, full well knowing otherwise.

So...limiting participation by divine intervention has led to sour feeling internally on this side, and not knowing at all has really soured it on the other. I know in Bloodloch you guys are just chomping at the bit for conflict, and mostly so with minimal RP and a lulzy neckstab and flee...save for Riluo who actually did Rp with me after I called him out.

But I reiterate its being poorly managed to build Roleplay and completely versed as a one sided thing, almost selfishly so. For a game fueled by Roleplay choices, having gods slap your hand and say no is not helping the environment.

I don't think the admin have been one sided at all. They even provided the paint, signs, and set Bloodloch on fire with the vigilantes. There were like 20 customized signs. A huge effort on the part of the admin to provide an equal level of involvement for people on the other side. There are more hardcoded/cool mechanics that the admin put in for the people being tested, than the actual testers. The paint pellets, by the way, are almost identical to the charm in mechanics. They're an annoying emote with a cooldown.

Your post reeks of entitlement: it's not that the admin haven't done anything, they've done lots, it's more that they didn't do exactly what you wanted them to do, so clearly they're all failures who dropped the ball.

Aarbrok

A sign, is not an equivalent to a charm which siphons essence for the Lord of Artifice.

If you truly believe that, then you are silly.
RP- Its like PK, with a story.

Mephistoles

Teani said:

People want to be able to RP their characters accordingly and here there doesn't seem to be much leeway for alternative routes. Saying "just PK back" to a non-com appears to me to be quite insulting.

I kind of take issue with this part. All of Aetolia is RP, all of it. The PK, the mechanics, the limitations of your character, the emotes. If you cannot PK or fight (at least a little), then your character has no recourse against this other than trying to get others to help you or trying to be diplomatic with the other character and that is your RP.

There isn't anything wrong with that, some people don't PK or fight at all, ever. Some only do it sporadically, some do it all the time. But this is not interfering with your RP or stopping you from RPing. Sometimes you don't get exactly what you, the player, wants in RP, and that's okay.

Trager

Xarian said:

Your post reeks of entitlement: it's not that the admin haven't done anything, they've done lots, it's more that they didn't do exactly what you wanted them to do, so clearly they're all failures who dropped the ball.

And by Xarian's action, (I am speaking of the CHARACTER here, not the PLAYER) do you not see where the issue might rise?

"Oh, you want to know what I'm doing to you against your will? Just know that if you test positive, you'll have to inform past sexual partners."

Wow. Like, as person, I want to laugh. I mean it vaguely even sounds like something I can imagine myself -saying- no less. I think 'entitlement' is a bit of a strong word when. Perhaps 'troll' might be better suited, here.

Nalor

Omei said:

I have to say that I simply cannot understand the backlash from the Lifer side of the game. The charm is a valid PK cause.

PK them back. Form raids. Do something.

Your funny @Omei.. the reply I got from a GM about the shadow 'beep'

"The order was tasked with collecting shadow of of persons or creatures or anything they come across. They have been doing it for months, and made posts in the city.

.. I got no reason as to what it is etc etc.. as like yeah .. Im in that order / City? So it's not like 'lifer side' whos being griefed about it... Everyone is..

Teani

@Mephistoles‌: I wasn't saying that PK is not part of the game and a form or roleplaying your character. I'm saying that not all people want to feel forced into PKing back for something randomly done to their character. This is equivalent of someone going around kicking people to create conflict, only the people with charms have a backstory.

Also, if you haven't noticed, diplomacy hasn't really yielded anything aside from Aarbrok's rampant spiel, meaning that route has been shut, leaving only the PK response open (and even encouraged by people here on the forums, which is what I take offense to), which means asking others for help. We both know, I think, that the conflict doesn't end after one fight if someone else asks another person to help with taking revenge for a valid PK reason. Things will escalate because the instigator (the charm user) will want to kill someone for dying when they get PKd.

Nola

Let me explain a problem with this in a different way -

A large, well-equipped force of enemy combatants are essentially running around poking people, stealing essence from them with these charms. They offer little insight, but that's to be expected - they're enemies, and enemies lie and do dirty stuff all the time.

But there is essentially -no- consequence for this action, except the possibility of death, for the opposing forces performing this.


My point is. You've got nothing, or very little to worry about. The Lifer side is cast in the 'shadow' (ha) of not knowing anything at all except what seems to be a very poor attempt at diverting attention to a 'mutual threat' caused by the shadow plague, and it's 'just testing'. But they're enemies, so why should there be anything but doubt about that?

Mephistoles

Teani said:

@Mephistoles‌: I wasn't saying that PK is not part of the game and a form or roleplaying your character. I'm saying that not all people want to feel forced into PKing back for something randomly done to their character. This is equivalent of someone going around kicking people to create conflict, only the people with charms have a backstory.

Also, if you haven't noticed, diplomacy hasn't really yielded anything aside from Aarbrok's rampant spiel, meaning that route has been shut, leaving only the PK response open (and even encouraged by people here on the forums, which is what I take offense to), which means asking others for help. We both know, I think, that the conflict doesn't end after one fight if someone else asks another person to help with taking revenge for a valid PK reason. Things will escalate because the instigator (the charm user) will want to kill someone for dying when they get PKd.

If you have sufficient RP reason to go up and slap (I'm going with slap instead of kick since kick actually does damage mechanically and slap and the needle don't) someone to create conflict, you can do that. You just has to be ready to accept the consequences. My character can be standing at NoT and Daskalos can come up and slap him if there is enough reason. I PK a little bit, but I generally cannot beat Dask, so I have to decide if my character sucks it up, tries to fight a losing battle, or tries to talk it out. It isn't any different than this.

So lets say I try to be diplomatic with Daskalos. He doesn't bite. So now I can escalate things or de-escalate things. I probably cannot win against him in a straight fight, so I choose to suck it up and go away.

There isn't anything wrong with that situation. Sometimes diplomacy doesn't work. There are consequences to all of this, and so far it seems like all the people doing it, at least that I've spoken with, are pretty willing to risk bounties and PK to do it. If you don't want to be involved at all then you go to your city, or your haven or somewhere far away from people.

Stuff doesn't always go exactly how you want it, and that's part of what makes RP in Aetolia interesting.

@Nola, I still don't think it's god modding. Sure, it's quick, but lots of things are. A character can run into the room, slap your character, and then leave before you've got a chance to speak up. However that isn't god modding. If someone were to run into the room, drop several long emotes about beating you up while you're helpless and then run away, now that would be god modding.

Yarel

not so long ago we had the whole 'Moving Mogh' thing going. Now, we on the darkie side knew we had no hope of actually stopping what was going to happen, (we definitely knew it after admin controlled mobs participated in raiding Loch,) but we found a way to get involved and have some fun. We didn't run to the forums to bitch and moan about it. We didn't get all bent out of shape about how unfair it was that we couldn't dictate the RP or control matters, and the event was a success. On several occasions I have RPed or conversed with lifers about the testing. Cronides took it upon himself to ask questions, and to interact in a civil manner, and he got answers. how about this... Try RPing a search for answers, rather than just running here to bemoan the unfairness of it all.... sheesh

Nalor

Yarel said:

Try RPing a search for answers, rather than just running here to bemoan the unfairness of it all.... sheesh

Im in indorani and spinesreach and when I asked I was told "Its on the order news and city news" Im not in bloodloch nor the order soo.. yeah if its hard for a undead to get them answers how is it going to be easier for a lifer?

Trager

Especially when Cabalists have already attempted and been divinely cock-blocked in the process.

Mephistoles

@Nalor I'm in Bloodloch and the Teradrim, and when I asked I got RP from the people I tried to interact with, save one. It wasn't hard for me to get some answers. Your experience isn't universal, and you shouldn't assume it is.