Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE

Ezalor

You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of asthma.

You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of slickness.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of slickness.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of slickness.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of slickness.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of slickness.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of slickness.

You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of anorexia.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of anorexia.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of anorexia.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of anorexia.
You discern that Daskalos has cured the effects of anorexia.

Daskalos

Angel Care is at 13 seconds. Purity Necklace is at 15. Shall I go extract all the times you cured afflictions too?

The soulmaster trick is (ingenious, but) lame, quit deflecting.

At what point do we just remove all force\mind command\soul master skills?

Ezalor

Nevermind, not getting into it.

Trager

Plz 2 be fix my werewolf having scales please @Oleis

Daskalos

It's just a vorpal clone.

Except that Templar don't get access to impatience to lock out focus.

Riluo

I rage that my stupid relic (Reptile eye) does not do what it says it does. Not once has it prevented Blurry_vision... not once!!

PLZ FIX!!

Jensen

stop pulling whiskey right out of the bottle and be a square!

Jensen

@Xarian Are you actually just flagging everything Dask posts as troll? That's not really the community I want to be part of.

Ishin

I'm not entirely sure where the rage is here, unless it's at the forced resto. Your self-aff tracking is also way off. I see the list there, but you don't add anorexia off the 3p message. They also can't diag, and you had equil the whole time. Eclipse will let them proc a hidden aff now and again, and that can really bone you if you don't pause to diag here and there, man.

Daskalos

The issue is the forced resto forces you off salve balance long enough they can get two rounds in - the first, anorexia, impatience, locks out focus and eating, since you need to eat to cure impatience and you need to salve to cure anorexia, which is locked out. The next round, asthma and then slickness, finishes off the lock and -then- I regain salve balance.
-
I pulled out my hidden handling, but overall was doing fine the entire duel until that happened. He tried it three times, but the first two didn't work because I was off salve balance from firelord. It's just a lame trick, and another in a long list of force related things.

It's to the point where it's either 'make clarity a defense to all force skills or delete them' because all the useful stuff has slowly been removed and now there's just a few token uses like this. And while he mentions that vorpal works the same way, Templar have no way to deliver impatience and lock out focus.

Ezalor

I'll post the log if you'd like. By "doing fine" you mean getting locked 4 times and random curing out of all of them, not including the entire time you were immune to affs cause of Bliss, before I bothered to use soulmaster.

Xarian

Jensen said:

@Xarian Are you actually just flagging everything Dask posts as troll? That's not really the community I want to be part of.

Definitely not. I only flag the troll parts.

Jensen

Daskalos said:

That's some really bad RNG luck. It's just a 50\50 roll, the same as gravehands\unholy chains.

Daskalos said:

I was always told it was identical to gravehands\unholy chains and that both were 50\50, that the only diff was piety lasted longer (and that's the reason it's trans vs gifted for gravehands) @Oleis?

You mean like those? Where Omei immediately says that piety = gravehands and is 60%. Please stop being a troll, it never helps

Daskalos

Ezalor said:

I'll post the log if you'd like. By "doing fine" you mean getting locked 4 times and random curing out of all of them, not including the entire time you were immune to affs cause of Bliss, before I bothered to use soulmaster.

Bliss has a CD on it, which combined with the fitness CD, creates a double CD on fitness. We're pretty easily vlocked at the moment other than random curing. I never felt the fight slipping away from me until you did the soulmaster trick. I don't care that I lost, it was my first duel in a RL month. I just find the trick lame (yet admittedly ingenious). No need to get upset or defensive.

Moirean

I've been doing forced resto for RL years. Nobody raged when it led to wheel or vivi kills. I guess I was just more stealth with it.

Ezalor

Not getting defensive, just responding to stuff. It's still a 5s passive cure so even without it spamming Fitness it's pretty much aff immunity throughout the period. Plus it -still- doesn't show asthma being cured on 3P despite 2 or 3 fixes that were supposed to make it do that. All moot though since it's getting deleted.

There's stuff you can do to stop soulmaster though deleting force skills is something I've advocated for a long time. There are far worse things I can do to you especially with you being Lumi if I wanted to be more abusive.

As far as Templar mental disruption is almost as good as impatience, especially with Pestilence going too.

Moirean

Ugh, don't delete force. They are like one of the three remaining creative, non-linear AI options left. Aet combat is so insanely boring and is just about pressing your kill button. Don't delete the few creative options we have left.

Feichin

Templars can do it better.

Alexina

Eh. Forcing salve balance is kinda gimmicky. Like... monk limb break + instant mind command to apply restoration to head is also pretty questionable. I don't really participate in combat, but losing a duel to something like that must be annoying. Feels like the back and forth with combat topics is 90% about whoever's side can back themselves up the most and it's sort of sad to see because if someone on the lifer side had forced salve application on whichever combat darkie and made a post about it, the roles would have been reversed.

The pack or clique mentality or whatever really demotivates me from Aetolia sometimes. Most other games/muds I play have less hostility between sides and actually try to give feedback/praise/tips on the forums.

Rashar

Just come play with me, @alexina. I promise I won't force you to restore anything but your life!

Although if you ask certain people, I'm pretty hostile already. *kicks rocks*

Ishin

It really is annoying, @Alexina. Losing to apply resto, that is. Losing to forced-sip alcohol/smoke weed isn't as bad, cause there's purge body to help deal with that.

And, @Daskalos, if you're struggling as a Luminary you need to talk to @Ashmer or @Haven, or shit, talk to both of them. They Lumi right. Maybe it's just your curing, I don't know, but you seem like you're trying to talk from the stance of a top-tier, serious business pvper...and you aren't anymore.

Daskalos

I'm not struggling as a Luminary, Ishin... at all. Ashmer and I both work pretty much the same way with the way we fight as Luminary. Yes, you could force angel drain or perform focus and that's the point. It's just trolly. Templars can do it better atm because they can brute force retribution. Mental disruption increases the recovery time for 10 seconds, but focus is still an option. Impatience locks it out completely.

Haven

Hrm... I'm not sure how I feel about this yet. It looks incredibly OP at first but it also looks really easy to unravel too or better yet stop entirely if you're prepared for it because there are so few afflictions on you, especially as a Luminary. It's a really clever and unconventional gimmick for sure but I think it's usuable like once and then you change a few things in your offense and you're good to go. Kind of reminds me of the type of thinking/strategies @Xiuhcoatl uses when it comes to fighting.

I'll need to think on this some more but just off the top of my head:

Indorani strike at 2.79 seconds. So to do both those combos uninterrupted is 5.58 seconds while restoration takes like 4ish (4.4 I think but not entirely sure), leaving you with 1.18ish seconds to unravel it if you're hit with it to cure anorexia which will let you cure asthma and slickness leaving you with just impatience.

The really small, tiny window aside, I think shielding during their 5.58 combo set breaks the gimmick. Or alternatively using Evoke Fire Self (1.86 seconds for a +EQ Luminary) or bliss too. Even if an Indorani decided not to use the soulmaster trick to force salve applications, they have other means of doing the exact same thing. I fought @Feichin last night and the method he used was warrior tarot to trigger my pre-restoration. Although I think a counter to that method would to just disable pre-restoration against an Indorani or set it much higher against the class...maybe. I still have to mull things over with the log.

But briefly skimming the log, the only reason either of these seemed to work was cause I was unprepared for that strategy. Again, this is all just early morning speculation and I'll need to think on this more and test out stuff before I can come to a proper conclusion.

In the mean time, what are some viable things we can do to the soulmaster? I wonder if we can lightform to drop ent aggression. If we lose soulmaster, how quickly can an Indorani reapply soulmaster?

Toz

It's not 5.58s for the combo, it's 2.79s because of balance. Throw 1 happens right as they give the force. Throw 2 happens 2.79s later and you're locked up, with restoration time to spare. At least, that's what happened in the log.

Haven

Toz said:

It's not 5.58s for the combo, it's 2.79s because of balance. Throw 1 happens right as they give the force. Throw 2 happens 2.79s later and you're locked up, with restoration time to spare. At least, that's what happened in the log.

2.79 * 2 = 5.58

Toz

The locking afflictions are done at time 0.00 and time 2.79 though. While 2.79*2 does equal 5.58, the lock completes at 2.79.

Time 0.00: Force restoration, throw impatience/anorexia
Time 2.79: balance recovered from throw, slickness/gecko thrown
Time 2.79: You are now locked
Time 4.40: Salve balance back
Time 5.58: balance recovered from throw, they reinforce lock.

Haven

Toz said:

The locking afflictions are done at time 0.00 and time 2.79 though. While 2.79*2 does equal 5.58, the lock completes at 2.79.

Time 0.00: Force restoration, throw impatience/anorexia
Time 2.79: balance recovered from throw, slickness/gecko thrown
Time 2.79: You are now locked
Time 4.40: Salve balance back
Time 5.58: balance recovered from throw, they reinforce lock.

Fair enough. The more I look at it though, the more I'm convinced this strategy is not what it's cracked up to be. If you highlight the forced restoration use and just shield or active cure after the first combo of impatience/anorexia, you essentially break the strategy. You can even do it after the second combo but you're banking more on luck than anything at that point.

This strategy looks more like a, for a lack of a better term, 'noob check' than anything. If you're paying attention and or are aware of it then it shouldn't ever get you. After some research, you can also prevent the soulmaster from acting on you all together before the Indorani can even use this trick by resetting its timer.

Roux

What the heck man! I guess it makes sense, but I have to restock like, fifty designs in my shop because they ticked over into needing renewals. GRR.

Erzsebet

...did you have them on auto-pay?

Roux

Well, clearly not or they'd not have gone into negative months. I just forgot to do a mass renew all.