Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE

Nalor

Amberlea said:

I know lycan changes are "coming soon", but bleh I'm just not having fun at all.

You do know the lycan change most likely wont do nothing for this but more toward letting you pick different things to mutate into from what Ive been readnig right? @amberlea

Amberlea

I know they are mostly supposed to be quality of life adjustments, but a were can dream :P

Angwe

Like the ability to put up three howls at once (we can hope)

Nalor

Angwe said:

Like the ability to put up three howls at once (we can hope)

Xiuh put that as an liaison report before the last lot and it was rejected.... @Angwe

Ezalor

While Lycan offense may be hard to pull off, you also have to keep in mind that they are immune to venomlocks because of shed and take only 75% limb damage, which makes them defensive powerhouses against many classes.

Aishia

Haha, Oh Ezalor.

Aishia

Every class has powerful strongpoints and weakpoints, obsessing over them is just silly!

Xiuhcoatl

@Nalor, it was rejected twice actually. I'm pretty certain it was liaisoned before me too. None of them were approved. I believe @Illidan's report for it just got approved. After how many people suggesting the same thing? Took 'em unicorning long enough.

Also @Ezalor don't forget Lycans are the only class who can brainsmash through the twerk of telepathy. Here's the twerk of telepathy lycan version, warning contains a 3 swear words, Miley, Cyrus, and mothaunicorn.

[spoiler] [/spoiler]

edit: One of the only classes

Irruel

@xiuhcoatl
Amusingly, one of the other classes is the one that you say you hate the most, and is the most broken. Not that I'm disagreeing - it's just funny.

Berserk is one of the reasons I love lycan. The other things include shed, rage, hardening and a few utility things like quietus and neckdrag.

I also like the speed of limb damage classes.

But Amberlea has a point - prerestoration is just too easy if done the way she says, and if you keep track of your own limbs, if you ever find yourself slipping behind you just need to throw out a round of hinder - which could be shield if your class lacks this - and you gain an extra round of safe pre-restoring. Back to square one.

Nalor

@Irruel the new statpacks made it like it is, I raged about it when we first got the new statpacks, its 90% of the reason I quit the class!

enhance balance just didn't do what Agile/Dex did it was still .2+ slower then them speeds which the class needed.

Irruel

@nalor
Two years ago it was still possible to be a neutral balance lycan. That was one of the things I particularly liked about the class. Having faster balance sure helped, don't get me wrong, but it was still possible.

Aishia

The best way to fix a problem isn't raging about it or just straight up quitting. If you have serious balance concerns, especially ones brought on by major changes, then filing detailed bugs or reports, etc, is usually the best way to get it fixed. Especially with changes as big as recent ones, you can find that there are apparent problems produced immediately, that turn out to just be shifting dynamics later on. As much as you can complain about lycans slowing down, everyone seems to forget cure balances were all slow downed as well, on par with that. But if the changes don't seem balanced or equivalent to you, it's up to you to make sure someone knows something is up! If a number needs to be tweaked, it's going to get a lot more attention earlier rather than later. (Not to derail raging!)

Amberlea

Adding a very short balance raze option would be nice. Reducing the time it takes to regain howl balance would also help a ton with swapping howls mid-fight and setting up before hand. Baying is not particularly strong, so I feel like it wouldn't be too game breaking if it were available more often in a fight.

@Ezalor Lycan may be tanky against some classes, but all the tank in the world is meaningless if your offense can basically be ignored.

@Xiuhcoatl I know you are a big fan of brainsmash, but I hate the idea of it being the preferred method of killing with lycan. Considering our skills had limitations put on them to specifically discourage the use of weapons (for some very good reasons) I feel like it goes against the spirit and theme of the class.

I love lycan RP. I love the concepts behind lycan combat. It's so close to begin so awesome, which is why I get frustrated by it

Nalor

@Aishia I let a few people know! Thank you very much and it all came back to, 'That's how it is now, deal with it' ...

Valdus

The question about lycanthrope speed changes has been brought up on the forums before and answered - http://forums.aetolia.com/discussion/comment/29921/#Comment_29921

Everything was slowed proportionally - rend/hamstring alone have never been able to outpace salve speed, and this continues to be the case.

If there's a fundamental problem with the setup, that's another issue entirely and definitely merits liaison reports. That being said, lycanthropes have a couple of new interesting tricks this round, including:

- a new ferality attack to caused delayed prones, so setting up non-groin jawlocks should be a fair bit easier.
- howl interchange, to let you swap all three howls instantly
- brand new damage-oriented abilities for each lycanthrope subtype based on jawlocks themselves
- other wonderful things to follow

Additionally, hammer tattoo is receiving a significant speedup this round, which should at least partially mitigate the problem from shielding. I won't delve too far into lycanthrope tactics, but the interchange ability and the existence of a berserking howl might also help with shield issues...

Amberlea

Valdus said:

The question about lycanthrope speed changes has been brought up on the forums before and answered - http://forums.aetolia.com/discussion/comment/29921/#Comment_29921

Everything was slowed proportionally - rend/hamstring alone have never been able to outpace salve speed, and this continues to be the case.

If there's a fundamental problem with the setup, that's another issue entirely and definitely merits liaison reports. That being said, lycanthropes have a couple of new interesting tricks this round, including:

- a new ferality attack to caused delayed prones, so setting up non-groin jawlocks should be a fair bit easier.
- howl interchange, to let you swap all three howls instantly
- brand new damage-oriented abilities for each lycanthrope subtype based on jawlocks themselves
- other wonderful things to follow

Additionally, hammer tattoo is receiving a significant speedup this round, which should at least partially mitigate the problem from shielding. I won't delve too far into lycanthrope tactics, but the interchange ability and the existence of a berserking howl might also help with shield issues...

super happy fun times!

Berserking howl isn't too great. It's not particularly useful to have in your normal 15s howl tics because it doesn't contribute at all to the kill route. I sometimes bay it at people if they shield but often it gets cured before it tics because bays don't get masked by snarling. The option is there, technically, but hammering is the better choice and doesn't have a monstrous cooldown.

Aishia

More to the point @Amberlea, you'll be able to switch your howls up easier in the future. So you SHOULD be doing so in response to your targets actions. If they're spamming shield, you may have to change tactics until they stop, to punish them/aggravate them over it. Then switch back to something more condusive to your kill route. Unfortunately, for the most part, there is no simple easy to follow kill route, you always have to react to what your enemy is doing. (Unless they suck!)

Amberlea

Berserking is still not going to be what I swap in, even if they shield spam. If they shield I need it to break now, not 15s from now. As Israafiyl can attest from our time in the arena last night, putting it into your howls isn't going to keep someone from shielding, but it is going to make you killing them ridic hard as long as you aren't doing stuff that actually contributes a meaningful aff.

Most howls are pretty meh, in truth, because they just don't stack well (I understand that guarenteed triple affs you don't want to give lycans easy-auto vlocks or anything). Paralysis Stupidity Anorexia is honestly the only combo that does much because (ignoring tree + endgame, hopefully they are off bal at the same time the second or third howl tic into the fight) it forces a 1.07s salve application which is your ultimate tiny window to push some breaks. A smart opponent parries the limb that was still broken, so you need to go for another double break instead of mangling. Pray they don't remember that they can restore and cure all of those at once.

Meyvitch

MY RAGE IS NOT HAVING MORE PEOPLE AWAKE IN DUIRAN.

Xiuhcoatl

@Aishia switching your howls is on the same secondary balance that baying is on. Switching your howls lowers your afflictions given, IE stops you from baying. Most things you can howl are not salve afflictions, IE do not contribute to your offense, besides paralysis which allows you to deliver a restoration affliction. You only have 2 that are direct salve afflictions. The ability to change howls isn't going to do anything as long as baying and howling is on the same balance. Berserking a mental affliction will not help much at all, because howls are at 15 seconds and focus is at roughly 4.5 seconds now. Including lag, you're going to just focus off all afflictions given to you that are mental. Which at most would be 2. As you should be howling paralysis, anorexia, and one other. In most circumstances, this should be blurry_vision. The circumstance where this would not be the case is when they have that affliction on them already.

Whoever thought introducing mental afflictions to help non-mental affliction based classes get through shield, what in the actual unicorn? You can maybe get one tick of it through.

Teani

I rage at the amount of class complaints posted in the general rage thread. Can it perhaps be split off?

Ezalor

@Amberlea that howl set seems kinda bad. Anorexia, blurry vision, disrupt would be so much better.

Saybre

Arbre said:

Valdus said:

- a new ferality attack to caused delayed prones, so setting up non-groin jawlocks should be a fair bit easier.

This is beautiful.  I can get the other jawlocks, but by the time I do, groinrip has faded.  Not that I mind groinripping.

Toz said:

should also be noted any channeled instakill turns off Carni recklessness and the cool down on it is over 10 minutes. I have more to say, but on my phone.

When it comes to Carnifex, you ALWAYS have more to say.

You're all welcome for that. Only 3 people did any Lycan liaisons. I used up potential Templar ones for Lycan!

Amberlea

@Ezalor The reason I don't use blurry vision is because it's a pretty low cure priority and something that I'd only be giving to try to create salve pressure. People will apply to cure anorexia over broken limbs, but I didn't see that happening much with blurry. Either way, you are only going to get one apply out of it anyways. My way people focus which targets stupidity first, apply for anorexia, so they can eat for paralysis. Your way they will focus anorexia eat for paralysis then apply for blurry. At the end of the day it all comes out the same, except for the chance that stupidity might cause them to miss an action, which most people have coded to be pseudo-immune to.

Disrupt is a fair trade for paralysis. I don't really spinerip much anymore, but I like having the option to.

Ezalor

They are still hidden after all. Paralysis, stupidity, anorexia are all very readily unmasked. Blurry vision actually allows you to make them miss an attack before they realize it, especially with the ability to change howls coming up. This is also why hallucination is a decent howl, they have no way of unmasking it until it actually procs. Disrupt is a very good hinder.

Xiuhcoatl

@Saybre delayed prones aren't actually going to do anything. If you know lycan combat, you should realize that a claw attack that delayed prones someone that isn't free of balance or effectively free of balance is going to be useless. IE, the balance cost is literally less than .3 seconds. What would have been a good report was to have this delayed prone nature part of the destroy. 

Also @Illidan was the only one who put in decent ideas for lycan combat. In reality, anything I put in would have been similar to his so I decided not to. His best report, and what the class really needed was rejected. Everything else unless it's implemented drastically different than the suggestion/approval message is going to do absolutely nothing. Anyone who thinks otherwise, please explain to me in a logical linear fashion how it will do something. His best ones were rejected. So we're left with brainsmashing. Anyone that thinks differently, is either a low level combatant, hasn't been a combatant in a long time, or expects to use this class against low level opponents. 

Toz

Paralysis/stupidity/anorexia gives you the best chance for a spinalrip, which is useful for pressuring affs. Blurry_vision has its uses, but until the howling changes go in? It'll only work once against Citadel before it's cured. Paralysis/stupidity/anorexia at least gives you a shot at advancing your offense.

Disrupt is a pretty useful aff to throw out, esp. passive like it is, but it doesn't beat the lockdown from paralysis/stupidity/anorexia. If they're pre-restoring and your howl hits, they can't cure anorexia at all. Tree/recon should be getting used up by most systems any time you give mending breaks. Get lucky with them being off salve balance from a resto apply and they're stuck with anorexia for 4s (stupid cures off via focus) and you can spinalrip AND they're paralysed for the duration.

Amberlea

A lot of people just blast the unicorns out of healing if they don't know what they got. I've had fun snarling health and mana and watching people focus/tree/endgame/eat/smoke/apply spam in the past

Toz

Hey @Saybre, I was one of those. I'm the reason that lycan limb damage is getting fixed to not depend on their max hp, the color of the day of the week, the alignment of Jupiter and the stock prices of JP Morgan.

Xiuhcoatl

@Toz, paralysis/stupidity/anorexia gives you a very very narrow window of opportunity to get a spinalrip at the cost of not advancing your offense normally. You outlined the ideal situation for it. IMO, the trade off is too narrow to be called a best shot. I wager, that the combo is equally useful without stupidity thrown into the mix. I say, I wager, because that's the howl set I use. As your ideal setting is to regain balance as they get hit with it and do it based, in reality, on the lag working to your advantage. Alternatively, you just wait a part of a second if your howls are hitting soon and spinalrip them anyway. The alternative is really your best bet. It's the most efficient use of your time.