Forum Rules

Oonagh

Wear the disagrees proudly if youre gonna do them. No sense being half-assed about it.

Tetchta

Oonagh said:

Wear the disagrees proudly if youre gonna do them. No sense being half-assed about it.

Indeed. Plus, in my experience with people who have been nasty, they tend to wilt like salad in a frying pan when confronted about it even in the gentlest of terms.

Rihrin

I'll be an advocate for not showing people who disagree, only for situations that aren't like this one. Sometimes, disagreeing is just showing a differing opinion, not something meant to be nasty/mean. And unfortunately, there are a good number of IRE players (well, who am I kidding, just people in general) who will make your life miserable outside and inside the game for it. Harass you. And yes, there are forum rules against it, but it does not stop people. People are people. They're going to do what they feel like in the heat of the moment. People are bad at being able to separate their feelings. It's often very polarizing, which seems to already be an issue inside and outside the game as it is. We need less of this, so I don't know that encouraging it is a good idea.

Sibatti

I mean, I think it's fine to disagree to show a different opinion. Disagreeing without sharing out why you disagree is something that personally annoys me - if someone is going to disagree with something I say, I'd like the chance to hear their perspective, even if I think they're wrong. Disagreeing and walking away is, to me, simply lazy, and doesn't further understanding on anyone's part.

Anonymizing disagreement only serves to encourage this lazy form of discourse, because now you can substitute one click as a stand-in for making an actual point. Disagreeing and walking away anonymously gives you no obligation to hold up your end of the social agreement. It's like saying "I don't support this, but I'm not going to give you a few minutes of my time to explain why, and there's nothing you can do about it.... so suck it."

I personally don't feel that if you're going to engage in an exchange of ideas, you shouldn't be able to anonymously share your opinion while simultaneously refusing to partake. That's not how discussions work!!

Tetchta

These rules haven't been updated since April 2018 (three years!) and don't reflect the current bannable offenses or rules. They should probably be cleaned up and updated for clarity's sake.

Tiur

I've updated the rules a smidge with things I thought were kinda obvious, but sure, I can enumerate a little more.

Tetchta

Tiur said:

2b. This is not a neutral place; if you have a problem with the game contact support@aetolia.com. Any things that should go through support and are instead shared here intending to insult the game, players, admin, etc... those will just be deleted and you'll be banned.

What determines what is insulting to the game/admin and what is something meant for emails? This seems like a needlessly draconian rule meant to stifle the very thing a game has a forum for: public discussion. This is a bizarrely authoritarian rule and I can't imagine this was written in good faith.

Rhyot

Think of it this way..... if what you have to say isn't constructive towards the thread, you probably shouldn't post it. 

If what you have to say is verbally combative in nature, you probably shouldn't post it. 

If you cannot make your post without attacking ANY member of the admin team or other players of the game, you probably shouldn't post it. 

In the past week, I've seen quite a handful of posts that became direct attacks to the admin team AND/OR other players. This is not conducive to having a positive community. We're gonna have beef with each other, that's a given. But either keep that beef to yourself or discuss that beef privately (emails/messages). However, recognize the fact that the person you have beef with doesn't HAVE to respond to you (admin/players) if your entire issue is combative/argumentative in nature, especially if your entire message boils down to 'This is why I don't like you'. People aren't punching bags, don't treat them like one as we have want to be the past few months. 

Tetchta

That wasn't a question for you, Rhyot, that was a question for the policy-maker.

Tiur

Nah, Rhyot's pretty much got it. I mean, there's no policing agency for forum rules. I could just ban anyone I don't like. The rules aren't meant to be an unassailable constitution or anything.

I was trying to phrase a rule that was expressing... Look, we're here to talk about the game. Constructively. Posting "Aetolia is the worst" isn't constructive, and honestly, I don't see the logic where people think we'd be required to provide a hosting spot for that statement.

Didi

bring on positive vibes

Tetchta

Here's the deal; it's obviously abundantly clear to, I think, most of us that rules are not a binding constitution, but they are important regardless because, while we're all aware that you hold all the authority and power over this space and can be a tyrant if you so choose, having laid out expectations that are pretty clear about what behavior and consequences to expect for things is invaluable. And given that there are rules stipulated to begin with, it does serve as a loose social contract with the playerbase that, frankly, matters.

And, as I'm sure you're aware, while you can be a malicious dictator if you choose to be, you surely must recognize that that's a pretty rough business model, and that optics and perception matter. And the optics of the rules as written sends the message that the line between "feedback" and "malicious insult" is a blurry one at best, and I don't think that's particularly helpful to everyone. Like, sure, feedback can sting a bit, but if I were in charge of a game that depended on people to buy non-essential text toys to keep the lights on, I'm not sure I'd want to ostracize taking the temperature of the fanbase to the margins. And I think, even without that being the intention, that's the read of those rules. "Insulting the game" is fairly vague, and I think one could very easily say that many comments in the There have been no events thread could be interpreted as insulting, when they're just people speaking the truth as they see it.

And, honestly, as much as "positive vibes only here my dudes" sounds like a good thing, that really is a mentality that frequently serves only to paper over legitimate concerns, both in interpersonal relationships and in wider communities, as disturbing those in power and/or the status quo is frequently what's interpreted as a "negative vibe."

Thoughts to consider as you run this community.

Drystin

Tetchta said:

 And, honestly, as much as "positive vibes only here my dudes" sounds like a good thing, that really is a mentality that frequently serves only to paper over legitimate concerns.. 

I dunno, judging by the amount of awesomes @Didi got for saying that, it seems like the majority are good with a little positive vibes for a change.

It also isn't an "either/or" situation. There's no reason we can't all conduct ourselves with more respect and still discuss the issues at hand. I think we all agree there are problems.. the disagreement is the toxic way that it often gets addressed.

Stigandr

While gritty disagreement and verbal jousting usually does end up spawning the worst in any individuals approach to dialogue involving the game, I've always been of the opinion that people can generally keep themselves in check.

However, this is not the general statistic that ends up happening, and while Tiur may come off as autocratic, I should just remind everyone that this forum is not a democracy, with nothing backing any sort of rights for any of it's posters.

You roll the dice when you get nasty, and dictatorship is the only way Tiur can enforce a positive platform, even if the general vibe is that of a tyrant censoring subjects.

You don't have any rights here the way you do as a citizen within whatever nation you live in, and I agree, despite how contrary it is to the spirit of general liberty, that players/posters here in the forums need to be censored, and that any argument contrary to it is detrimental to the game at large.

That's my two cents on the matter. Didi has the baseline vibe in her previous post that she made. She easily defines the desirable environment that is the best model for all of us to be operating in as players/customers for Aetolia.