League of Legends: A Game of Tears

Hadoryu

Nid is good for siege/poke comps, where she chunks enemies for half their health while they try to protect their inhib turret.

She's a very situational pick. She's not a good support because she lacks utility to peel or CC and she's not a mage, because she has no AoE or burst.

Eyra

Nidalee as an AP mid is excellent.

She beenfits from the increased exp, she scales incredibly well with levels and items.

As a mid and top you have excellent mobility post level 6 to roam to other lanes in half the time of your lane opponent (using the jungle and bushes properly you move even quicker).

Presuming you have some ination/counter ination with Shy/Renek/Mundo then people will be unwilling to engage on you. This allows you to push down waves incredibly quickly (usually multiple waves) and siege a turret. People wont want to stand near the front of the turret and if you land a Thresh hook into a spear or Morgy binding into a spear then that person is dead. The enemy team are forced to fall off the tower in the fight usually allowing for clean up as opposed to straight team fighting.

In soloq i genuinely think if you can keep your team patient and you play a good AP nida mid then you've won the game at champ select.

Hadoryu

I pretty much disagree completely. Nida's only carry-over into late-game is her spear, which CAN be game-changing if you get lucky, but is generally pretty much a crapshoot. She is not a carry of any sort and putting a lot of gold on her instead of most other members of the team is a huge mistake. 

She can't really push for crap, she can't really provide any sort of sustained damage, peel or team utility. A team built around Nida has very good disengage and a lot of poke to basically win stand-offs via attrition and then take objectives when the enemy team has been poked down to 50% health. It requires excellent coordination, because if one or two team-members get caught out while disengaging it's pretty much over - which is terrible for soloq.

Eyra

Not in my games? You're underestimating her broken fight damage. Her transition from cougar to human is on a pretty short cool down. Her heal is on a very short cooldown and is a massive steroid and heal with decent ap.

The only time she can't push is facing a five team but on a free lane she can quickly clear a lane and be back. If they engage in the mean time your spears can flank them which can be devastating.  

Hadoryu

Cougar form is basically useless for damage past mid-game, since you're building AP. The heal might be nice enough, but hardly noteworthy in a team fight.

Spear CAN make a difference, if you're lucky enough to land it as a max range skillshot on a squishy target. You're unlikely to get more than 2-3 spears off in a teamfight though and you're not guaranteed to hit.

Consider what a Gragas can do in a teamfight instead.

Like I said, Nida does siege/poke very well, but that's about it.

Lin

Now see, although I disagree with you on a few points, Hadoryu, I'm glad you actually explained your stance instead of just saying "lol, Nidalee sucks, these pro players told me so". Good argument and actually got me thinking about my (lack of) Nidalee game.

Osmond

When you have Nidalee in your team, you have to play differently. You can't just straight up 5v5 at any time like you can with Ahri, Zed or Leblanc. You -have- to play the seige and poke game - it doesn't matter if you miss fifteen spears, hit three on a tank and then manage to hit ONE on a squishy target. At max rank, one spear does a minimum of 235 base with a .65 AP ratio, and a maximum of 575 with a 162.5 AP ratio. Factoring in MR, sure, it might get cut down. But when you land that ONE spear on a squishy target and they are half health and your team can engage and romp through them, it's almost an outright 4v5. It could be luck, it could be skill, it could be anything. Nidalee with unholy grail and blue buff can seige better than almost anyone and if you're not using her this way, you're doing it wrong and deserve to lose.

So what you are saying is that the entire team has to play a risky game that will most likely not succeed in the long run just so someone can play a champion, there's a great arguement in favor of Nidalee, so she is still useless to a team.

More time for ratio, yay! The only cougar skill that scales off of AD is her Q, which is an auto attack execute. Her W, otherwise known as pounce/leap, does 225 at max rank, with a .4 ratio. That's not bad for a 3 second jump that's immensely useful to keeping her alive, with mobility being extremely key in the metagame of today. Her E, swipe, a cone shaped aoe, does 300 at max rank with a .6 ratio. She may be in melee range, but to say she does no damage is just outright wrong.

So she scales horribly in her cat form, and that is useful pretty much for only escaping?  Once again, a selfish champion that has no place in a team.  

Going off of what I said earlier, Nidalee isn't the easiest pick to just stick into a team comp. And unless your team has experience playing with one and knows when to just sit back and let the poke commence instead of trying to engage all the time, it won't work out very well. But, Nidalee is by no means a bad champion - she's got an above average(>50%) winrate, especially so as you go higher and the more skilled players work with her, instead of against her style.

So while your team is "sitting back letting the poke commence" I have circled through the jungle with my LeBlanc to jump the brush and annihilate your ADC, with the only threat on your team gone, we push you under tower with an ohm wrecker and ace your team taking out your nexus turrets at least.  Don't like that scenario? Ok, instead of taking out your ADC I instead jump onto your Nidalee blowing her up while my team rushes in yadda yadda yadda.  Sorry, the siege tactic has never worked, and never will. Nidalee is NOT a champion that fits into team meta, all she does is selfishly hold the team back.  You still aren't bringing up anything doing her any favours, you simply pointed out further how selfish of a champion she is.  USELESS.

Brae

I was going to reply to all of your points, and then realized it's just not worth it. We can agree to disagree, I guess. Nidalee has her place, just like the assassins or sustained dps mages.

On a side note, if you feel so strongly that Nidalee isn't worth playing as she offers nothing, why'd you play her a couple days ago? Found it amusing.

Ezalor

Lin

Toz

Who builds Ohmswrecker

Vimi

Toz said:

Who builds Ohmswrecker

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Osmond

Brae said:

I was going to reply to all of your points, and then realized it's just not worth it. We can agree to disagree, I guess. Nidalee has her place, just like the assassins or sustained dps mages.

On a side note, if you feel so strongly that Nidalee isn't worth playing as she offers nothing, why'd you play her a couple days ago? Found it amusing.

Either it was an ARAM, or you were looking at the wrong profile.  All I ever play anymore is ARAM, I play WoW mostly.

Osmond

Toz said:

Who builds Ohmswrecker

Smart people with a team comp that can dive under tower.  

Osmond

Lin said:

Come on now...you can't seriously mean that to be a NIdalee highlight, that was a fail video for the rest of that team.  Anyone with half a brain would have split up to cut her off, and those Blitz and Singed fails actually hurt me.

Osmond

Oh, and, still waiting for ANYONE to provide some proof that NIdalee is anything more than just a champ to troll norms and arams with.  Come on guys, one of you have to have SOMETHING to give her value.  Hell, even I have finally come up with  some semblance of a place for her earlier today.  Please though, someone come up with something, I don't want to have to argue your guys' view for you.

Ezalor

I would, but I pretty much just:

To the posts. Arguing extensively about League on Aetolia forums isn't on my agenda today.

Toz

Osmond said:

Toz said:

Who builds Ohmswrecker

Smart people with a team comp that can dive under tower.  

Lol, okay. Dump that 2k gold because you're scared of getting hit by a tower twice. Meanwhile, in a land where we actually have tanks, I'll be saving up for my Randuin/Sunfire/Rylai (pretty awesome on Zac)/Warmog - I can handle the handful of tower shots pretty easy anyway.

As for Nidalee's use, I'll just leave this here and let you fill in the blanks:

Aishia

Dem spears.

Draiman

If saying x is bad because you can do y then every champion is worthless. Hiding behind minions or your front line? This whole time I thought Thresh and Blitz were great champions. Guess not since you just showed me their counters. I can ignore Leblanc too if I just stay out of Q range and hide behind my tank/minions for her E. I'll shit on every Vayne now because I'll just not pick her and therefor out range her with any other ADC.

Your logic is flawless, just like your imaginary perfect players on every team vs. a Nidalee.

Eyra

Your Leblanc analogy is silly.

If you're sieging bottom inner/inhib then you'll have the bottom jungle warded. You've circled, you've poised and you've been hit by a spear and had to retreat.

Meanwhile the teams taken the turret and you've gimped your team fight. Gj.

Also... I believe: Boxbox.

Hadoryu

This discussion got pretty dumb all of a sudden. No offense.

Eyra

Just a hypothetical, no need to be rude, Sir.

Hadoryu

Wasn't aimed at you personally.

Vimi

Osmond said:

Toz said:

Who builds Ohmswrecker

Smart people with a team comp that can dive under tower.  

Lol, you need Ohmswrecker now to dive a turret? Voli says hello. 

Lin

It's Ohmwrecker. Because "homewrecker".

Toz

What if I want to wreck multiple homes at once

Ezalor

Play Katarina for maximum rektage.

Setne

I've towerdived as Yi multiple times.

Draiman

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^That is how my last game made me feel. I go 9-1 Leblanc at the start, DOMINATE my lane, shit all over bot lane, nuke the top lane Xin that @Ishin had fed (ily bro). I'm unstoppable. Our Caitlyn is like 5-0, Lee Sin is like 4-0 and out farming their Vi in the jungle. We're doing it, we're dominating this game, we're gonna win.


lol newp. 3-4 towers go down and the only people to show up to team fights are me, Taric, and @Ishin who was behind. Lee and Caitlyn would dip out AS THEY WERE MARCHING DOWN THE LANE to go farm CS. What really got me was when Caitlyn was still farming after full build. Like, not even pushing the lane. Last hitting.

Ended up 10-5 and watched helplessly from the fountain as Xin destroyed my dreams of winning a game that I didn't carry or get carried by Illidan.