League of Legends: A Game of Tears

Omei

Setne

wut

I really can't wait until the Team Builder is up and running, because I hate joining games and people being stupid when it comes to role choosing. Makes me want to hit my head against the wall.

Osmond

Omei said:

Holy christ I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.

Setne

Coming back and winning what was largely a 3v5, with me as Yi, Nami, and Wukong (Teemo and Twitch kept disconnecting and lagging for a large chunk of the game) vs. Warwick, Malazhar, Rumble, Vayne and Vladimere, and coming so close to getting a penta on them at Baron, but our Wukong got the kill hit on Rumble.

Haven

Vi OP!

Osmond

Why do people pick nidalee in ranked games? She is the most selfish and useless to the team champion in the game.  She offers absolutely nothing in team fights except maybe a spear snipe if she gets lucky and lands it which only takes the kills away from someone who is actually useful.  Riot Pls.

Toz

I made that same argument today, and even though I won my lane, I got carried hard by her. She was just wrecking everyone in the extended area. She ganked coast-to-coast and still out-farmed the person against her mid, because they had the fear of spear in them.

Eyra

Your view is backwards. She's a poke champion. Let her pepper the enemy with spears and the team fight is completely one sided from then on if you're pulling your weight.

Free objectives and easy team fights is hardly selfish.

Ezalor

Yeah Nidalee is far from useless but you have to adapt a playstyle around her, ie siege and poke instead of engaging. If their entire team isn't at half HP when you're engaging you're doing it wrong.

Brae

I've been having the most success with Nidalee lately, even though I've only played a dozen games with her as I learned her. It's definitely a different style of  champion than most, but once you get decent with her or having her on your team, the utility from the heal, vision from the traps and poke from the spears is just amazing. And if the enemy team isn't great, it's incredibly difficult to die before huge teamfights happen.

Lin

I don't even know how someone could argue that a heal + attack speed buff, vision traps, and an incredibly powerful long-range poke all packed into a champ who can go kittymode and leap walls is useless.

Toz

Sometimes, when I look at my Sivir/Soraka/Nidalee/Evelynn/Shaco team, I just, y'know. Wish we had a tank. Maybe a little.

Eyra

Nah... their team can literally never engage on you and you can siege so well if you learn to back off and make them waste their initiation.

 

Osmond

Yall must tan easily, cause you looking mighty bronze.  Nidalee is simply useless in higher elo.  Thats why you don't see her.

Osmond

And if anyone needs proof, I am happy to show you just how worthless a champion she is.

Ezalor

Plat actually, but okay. Whatever you say.

Eyra

Watch LCS bro...
Or high elo montage...

Edit: Got gold today Happy!

Toz

It's perhaps a pet peeve of mine, but y'know? I play with plat/gold players and hold my own just fine. I just also don't care too much to grind up through all the ranks and deal with all the people who have that attitude of 'omg you're silver you must suck'. Every diamond/plat player I deal with from random matchup is a massive, egotistical prick - and when they inevitably feed because they didn't get their steamroller start like they expected, it's everyone else's fault but theirs. Ranking means potentially less than you'd think, so even if someone's just bronze, or unranked, they can still definitely have good/useful input.

Draiman

I don't think he was throwing his rank around just because he has it, I think it was cause the guy who was boosted tried to call the legit plat a bronzie.

Eyra

Yeah I know what you mean.

Still doesn't mean Nidalee is useless.

Osmond

First off, I apologize to anyone that got offended at the last post, I know some people take things way too serious and get their feelings hurt.  So sorry.

I don't like bringing up pros, they are on an entirely different level than the rest of us, but if you want to bring them up lets take a look at Stonewall.  He is one of if not THE best jungler in the game, take a look at his comments on Nidalee.  Lets take Trick2G, not a pro, but has proven time and again he is an amazing League player.  Take a look at his comments on NIdalee, she is fun for screwing around with in norms or carrying in a low elo match, but in a competitive tier where players know what they are doing she is useless. Let's look at her AP build which is the most common way to build NIdalee.  As a mid, her spears fall off unless your entire team has just fed the living hell out of her and hasn't been able to build any items themselves. On top of that, her spears won't find a carry that is playing properly as that carry will be behind the team and/or behind minions, effectively preventing Nidalee from tossing spears at him/her. A small bit of health takes away their dangerous damage, and even without building health, by late game even your ADC will have enough health to tank a spear. All those spears are good for is sniping off a carry after the team has already beaten them down enough, and seeing how that is her only form of damage with an AP build, she is just robbing kills that are better off going to an actual sustain carry.

 She cant get involved directly in team fights because if you are building her AP then her cat form does no damage, and if you are building her AD then her lane phase is crap and she will have a hard time catching up. The point of an AP mid is to be able to nuke in team fights and bring down the enemy carries, or at least bring them low enough for the team to finish them off or send the carry running for base effectively removing them from the fight.  The point of an AD champion is to give off consistent damage through the entire fight regardless of cooldowns, hence why champions like Vayne, Varus and Jinx are so effective, they have buffs stacking on their auto attacks sustaining their damage throughout the fight without having to run away and wait on CD.

Her vision traps do minimal damage and if you are relying on Nidalee traps for vision, your team has problems, that's what wards are for.  Wards not only give a range of vision, but they last longer and are garenteed to give vision for setting up fights instead of hoping the enemy doesn't see the glowing green thing on the ground and walks right over it.  Those traps do give vision for a fairly decent amount of time for skill-driven vision, but they give vision on one target and not on the area surrounding that target, so you may know where that one player is, but what good is that when you go to chase that person down only to find out that person lead you directly into the rest of his/her team? The only nice benefit of her traps are the armor and magic resist debuff it gives, but again, that is solely relying on the person not noticing the blinking green trap sitting on the ground which means she needs to put them into the buff and I think we have all learned what face checking brush gets you.

Toz

Draiman said:

I don't think he was throwing his rank around just because he has it, I think it was cause the guy who was boosted tried to call the legit plat a bronzie.

I wasn't ranting at Ezalor, or even at Osmond specifically - just, sort of a trigger for me is when someone goes 'bronze so you must suck'. So much rage.

Brae

You quoted Stonewall, a guy who makes mostly jungle videos and hasn't been extremely relevant since early season 3, and Trick2G, a guy who plays mostly, if not all jungle/top. In a discussion about a champion that is mainly played as an AP mage. I don't even.

Toz

Or support. The support Nid bush control is *real*. And that heal makes your adc (looking at you, Jinx/Trist/Kog) a machine-gun of doom.

Eyra

I don't think any decent player considers Nidalee a legit support.

She's an AP mid or a bruiser top (rip legit nid bruiser top )

Vimi

I consider Nidalee a wonderful support, a good support Nidalee punishes you for stepping on traps, and gives the adc that attack speed steroid. Hue. 

add me: 

The Best Soraka

P.S. Yes that is my NA in game name, no I am not joking or trolling. 

Xenia

While nid's traps are useful for vision, I tend to think of this as a secondary us and would like to point out their debuff potential. Lately, I've found that if she throws one in the team fight someone will inevitably hit them and suddenly be taking more damage than they should. If she is a smart player, she is placing them in places where she can get in that spear, always aware of where she is in relation to the traps she's placed around her, and forcing her position against her opponent. 

No she's not a nuke, and I'd argue that she's not the best option in every team composition, however if there is not need for her burst due to what he other champions can offer, then she can definitely be a strong addition. 

Aishia

All mid all support!

Osmond

I'm not even going to get into every detail of why NIdalee is a horrible support, but I will say this: 

Unless you are horrible at farming, stay behind minions and farm by turret where Nidalee support lanes have to push you.  Now the enemy ADC can't farm safely and becomes food for your jungler while once again NIdalee is rendered useless

As for Trick and Stonewall, if you watch them stream they both often play other roles and still excel.  Why chose those two in particular? Mainly because they are both incredible junglers, and the jungler is the one person on the team that HAS to know each and every champion inside and out.  If you don't know the reasoning behind that then you won't get this, but to anyone that jungles regularly and successful understands, noone on the team has to know every champ like a jungler does. 

 Noone has yet to provide any evidence as to why Nidalee is a valuable pick for a -team- instead of just an OK laner against people that just don't get how to counter her.  I've provided plenty of evidence as to why she is harmful to her teams, but if all she has to contribute is an attack speed buff on her heal that caps at 60% on a ten second flat CD and a MR and Armor debuff on a "please god let them step on it" trap that caps at 40% with an 18 second flat CD then I still fail to see how she is a better pick than many other champions that can offer the same buff or debuff but place them reliably and contribute them to the team fight on a consistent, strategic basis.  

Brae

The point of an AP mid is to be able to nuke in team fights and bring down the enemy carries, or at least bring them low enough for the team to finish them off or send the carry running for base effectively removing them from the fight.

When you have Nidalee in your team, you have to play differently. You can't just straight up 5v5 at any time like you can with Ahri, Zed or Leblanc. You -have- to play the seige and poke game - it doesn't matter if you miss fifteen spears, hit three on a tank and then manage to hit ONE on a squishy target. At max rank, one spear does a minimum of 235 base with a .65 AP ratio, and a maximum of 575 with a 162.5 AP ratio. Factoring in MR, sure, it might get cut down. But when you land that ONE spear on a squishy target and they are half health and your team can engage and romp through them, it's almost an outright 4v5. It could be luck, it could be skill, it could be anything. Nidalee with unholy grail and blue buff can seige better than almost anyone and if you're not using her this way, you're doing it wrong and deserve to lose.

She cant get involved directly in team fights because if you are building her AP then her cat form does no damage

More time for ratio, yay! The only cougar skill that scales off of AD is her Q, which is an auto attack execute. Her W, otherwise known as pounce/leap, does 225 at max rank, with a .4 ratio. That's not bad for a 3 second jump that's immensely useful to keeping her alive, with mobility being extremely key in the metagame of today. Her E, swipe, a cone shaped aoe, does 300 at max rank with a .6 ratio. She may be in melee range, but to say she does no damage is just outright wrong.

Going off of what I said earlier, Nidalee isn't the easiest pick to just stick into a team comp. And unless your team has experience playing with one and knows when to just sit back and let the poke commence instead of trying to engage all the time, it won't work out very well. But, Nidalee is by no means a bad champion - she's got an above average(>50%) winrate, especially so as you go higher and the more skilled players work with her, instead of against her style.