Lore questions.

Ishin

I think that both stories end with him tossing himself into the volcano, don't they? I'm not entirely sure that that's what's being debated.

Moirean

I always assumed a lot of it was fable and metaphor and mythology. They never came across as hard and fast truths, to me, but more like "Here's a story that's told."

Omei

Correct.

Mephistoles

I do not read Anne Rice novels nor do I have a desire to. Either way, both male in form and in personality. Homosexual god love as far as I'm concerned.

Rashar

Memnoch the Devil was a great read.

The Lestat books are alright, too, but it's definitely more insinuative than action filled. Beyond those, I've not read them.

Samp

Mephistoles said:

I do not read Anne Rice novels nor do I have a desire to. Either way, both male in form and in personality. Homosexual god love as far as I'm concerned.

I'm with @Lim on this one. I think ascribing gay/homosexual to gods is a little short-sighted from the lore perspective because it ignores that the gods are less-than-corporeal-essence inhabiting a slightly-more-corporeal vessel, so we can comprehend and interact with them better. I can absolutely see God's taking interest in mortal sexuality because they have a long track record of being meddlesome in mortal affairs, but I don't think their feelings for each other can be so simply described. Homosexual as a term also requires a very limited scope of what the gender of a God's essence actually is. Some of the Gods' essences have both inhabited and been described as multiple genders- Slyphe and Mebrene being the most obvious.

edit: Is homosexual a lore-accepted term even? I've never really hard gay or homosexual or straight or any of those words canonically defined, and player use seems VERY spotty. Based on some RP from literally 10 years ago (so take this with a grain of salt) I know Shallam and the Priests didn't have words for these things because they were completely immaterial.

Damariel

Me personally, I don't think that sexuality or sexual preference is stigmatized or subcategorized the same ways in Aetolia as it is in real life. There might be oblique references to preference, but it doesn't - fortunately - seem to be something that's focused on to any great extent. Whoever you like, great; go you. It's possible to explain away the inconsistency in language by sheer dint of the fact that a single, unified word doesn't need to exist; there's never been a need for it because all sex and romantic love is considered a normal expression of sexuality and romance.

Gwenith

A simple one : What are havens? Are they pockets of your own mindspace? Or is it a small niche carved out of nothingness like caches?

Ishin

@Samp - I've never really hard the term 'homosexual' in game ever. The worst I've ever heard is the 'bundle-of-sticks' word when someone's angry. Ever since I began playing, man-man has more or less been one of those accepted things, both lore-wise and pretty much by the players.

Rashar

I look at havens, @gwenith, as a manifestation of your character's consciousness or will into something somewhat physical. I think some people play it differently, but for instance Rashar's haven has changed based on things that have happened, and he didn't know about it until he actually went there.

On the other hand, I play him as being able to manipulate it at will if he chooses, which some people do not do.

Basically, it's your place. I also use mine to make rooms on the fly for certain RP scenes that I can't find a place for or are too personal to expect a room for. ( History development, etc. ) These change as needed, and right or wrong I play them as not actually being in the 'haven'. Which probably doesn't answer your question at all, heh.

Aishia

Haven's haven havens Haven.

Moirean

Forget it. Sick of spending my time trying to make thoughtful posts about my ideas, just to get lolol downvote.

Ishin

...who downvoted? I don't see any disagrees.

Angwe

Wrong topic, I figure.

Rashar

Wtf is a downvote. Is there some kind of neat score system I don't know about?!

Moirean

Angwe said:

Wrong topic, I figure.

No, right topic. There's a trend lately of downvoting posts instead of actually having a back and forth dialogue, and I find it incredibly rude to just dismiss someone's ideas and thoughts like that.

Mephistoles

You do realize we cannot 'downvote' here right? This is not reddit (Although we should make r/aetolia). I am going to assume that you mean disagree when you say downvote. You shouldn't take a disagree as a sign of disrespect. Sometimes people say controversial things. People might not agree with some of these things. There isn't really anything wrong with that or expressing that. Unless you mean that people are flagging your poses as abusive or troll. Because that would be abusing the forums.

Moirean

A disagree is basically a downvote. It shows up on your public profile without any context as for why, so all that's displayed is you having a ton of disagrees. It's a black mark on your profile. There's no reason to vote posts down if it's something just being discussed - why not show some respect and post your alternative opinion or viewpoint? You can express a different opinion that way, without marking down the post you don't agree with. It's like if you and a group of friends were talking about something fairly civil and one person just started throwing out thumbs downs and saying boooo and stuff. It's just not polite or conducive to a conversation, and I find myself really turned off to participating in discussion when people go through and do that instead of having a back and forth conversation. It comes across like they just want to vote my posts away instead of talking to me.

Rashar

I'm going to stop listening to anyone with more than 50 disagrees.

They're clearly mentally deficient.

Lim

I just popped my 'disagree' cherry. :')

Maghak

This is not the thread for discussing disagrees or voting. Please do so elsewhere and keep this thread on topic.

Haven

I've always wondered what the gods thought about mortals who are worshipped as gods. Are some of these people even demi-gods? Is there like a certain threshold before its enough to cause a god concern? Or are a lot of these just one off quests? We have hints of and or open cults throughout the game (like Bearnath the destroyer I think he's called in the Beastlord dungeon area, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the one in Scidve) where there are a significant chunk of people worshipping them. Not to even mention the dead gods and what have you of Albedeos that allude to there being many more pantheon out there. It kind of makes me think of this one Supernatural episode where these pagan gods have a sit down and set aside their differences to discuss the posing threat of Christianity's god and what have you. I'm just rambling now but yeah, anything you guys can elaborate on at all following these themes?

Damariel

Haven said:

I've always wondered what the gods thought about mortals who are worshipped as gods. Are some of these people even demi-gods? Is there like a certain threshold before its enough to cause a god concern? Or are a lot of these just one off quests? We have hints of and or open cults throughout the game (like Bearnath the destroyer I think he's called in the Beastlord dungeon area, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the one in Scidve) where there are a significant chunk of people worshipping them. Not to even mention the dead gods and what have you of Albedeos that allude to there being many more pantheon out there. It kind of makes me think of this one Supernatural episode where these pagan gods have a sit down and set aside their differences to discuss the posing threat of Christianity's god and what have you. I'm just rambling now but yeah, anything you guys can elaborate on at all following these themes?

Without specifically addressing any one instance, I can say that there's a variety of explanations for why there are figures of worship, and forms of worship, outside the Aetolian norm; many arose because of limited input from the Gods of Sapience into some isolated populations, some others because certain heroic figures during their history were mythologized into demigods and heroes, and still more might be based on some long-forgotten reality. Others, as with our own real world, arose as a way of explaining natural phenomena, and remain prevalent in spite of the clear and present reality of the polytheistic Aetolian pantheon. The Albedi pantheon, as established by Odravh's rise, is clearly on a level entirely distinct from the Aetolian one, and as you have observed, the Aetolian Gods are willing to band together to oppose significant threats.

See also: http://wiki.aetolia.com/Haridas_manifold

Erzsebet

Totally did not know this thread was a thing. >.> TIL Aetolia has other, regional Gods.

Think about it: you're the Manipulator. You're playing the long game. You have a tie to every single Syssin in the world, even if they aren't part of your contract with the guild. Why would you remove that as a potential angle?

Backtracking a bit--this totally explains why -Severn- and even maybe why his -Syssin- are cool with the class being a thing outside the guild given the stated origins, but it doesn't really explain why the light side are cool with it?

Mind, this isn't an attempt to try and say they shouldn't be able to have it, or anything like that, I'm just curious as to the lore of the -class- not just the guild being very much based in things that the light would consider shadow/dark. Unless they just...don't know of the origins or something?

Also. Tekal/Azudim/Idreth/Yeleni forms. There seems to be a rather wide, varied range of what's 'normal' and allowed, with no real stated specifics mandated beyond 'No, you can't be 20 feet tall'. Is there anything that is outside the scope of what an endgame form should be according to the lore? I mean, it's pretty standard, for an example, that an endgame type might take on more draconic elements to their form--dragon-type wings, horns, scales, etc. Is it feasible to be able to actually shift into a real dragon? For that matter, once your endgame form is done, is it canonically feasible, without divine influence to drastically change your form?

...while we're on that, the vampire skill masquerade--I've seen quite a few people use it for more drastic changes than that which would make one look alive, which is what I thought (and what the flavour text for the skill indicates) the lore was. Is that not the case? I've seen people do it to make them basically look the way they did when they were mortal, before the blood (and often) before endgame as well. Not sure if it's just a case of people conflicting with the lore, or the lore not being clear, or the scope of the lore here being broader than it seems or...what.

Haven

I don't think they can really say in regards to Severn without spoiling and or breaking plot points in the game that are central to the game's conflict. I really wish we got more info about Undeath to help solidify the lines in the lore because it can get real confusing really quick on what's what but I understand why it's done that way. To help keep the conflict on-going and allow room for interpretation.

Edit: I'd say it's largely willful ignorance of the Light side from a storytelling point of view. So many people want to believe in grey and this measure of "balance" in a world of darkness (or hehehe Age of Midnight). Which I think is kind of cool and speaks volumes of the "horror" of our era. From an OOC point of view, it was probably just players rejecting established lore in hopes of justifying their character's RP but now just a system of mixed messages since the class is oocly labeled neutral despite significant IC evidence saying otherwise.

Damariel

@Erzsebet‌: Syssin - Why the Light side is cool with them is up to RP. We haven't declared an official administrative stance, although Lighter Gods vary on their willingness to tolerate Syssin skills.

Endgame - Aside from general sanity things - i.e. no being twenty feet tall, no becoming pure energy - endgame has been normalized within the confines of a humanoid shape and a wide assortment of features. No, it is not feasible to shift into a true dragon, although your endgame form might have draconic characteristics. Shifting form depends on which endgame form you occupy; Idreth enjoy more leeway in this regard than other endgame forms, since they are a result of focus and willpower, rather than outside molding. Any form might have the capability to shift through variations, but Idreth is by far the most versatile in this regard lorewise.

Masquerade - All that masquerade should be doing is disguising blatant signs of undeath from people. It does not disguise anything monstrous, ugly, or otherwise conspicuous aside from undeath.

Serrice

Can herbs be used to treat chronic mental/physical disorders?

If a guy gets into a wagon accident where his legs get crushed, will restoration salve fix that up?

If you suffer from epilepsy, will goldenseal every day help hold back symptoms?

Damariel

@Serrice: Yes, yes, and yes. This goes for Reanimation cures, too. Disabilities of the kind you describe would still be a thing, albeit in more remote parts of the world where access to curatives is limited and there's no way of getting everything necessary. Consistent, steady access to curatives of that kind is more the domain of the cities and perhaps Delos. You would also need the gold to buy them, so families living in poverty might depend upon the charity of wealthy benefactors or adventurers.

Serrice

White hot fire sears across the sky followed a loud roar of power as Melantha
devours the essence of Fire to ascend to Yeleni.

That ascension line got me thinking - is the essence of a god 'tethered' so that it could only provide life/death power? I'm talking about their innate essence - I could plausibly see like, Auresae digging up some death essence from somewhere and stuffing it into someone, for example.

Ishin

Imo, 'life' and 'death' aren't static to either side. Spirit and Shadow, maybe. I could possibly see Auresae doing something like that if she were, say, making her Champion endgame and they wanted to be Azudim. That might even be some pretty cool RP.

Edit: To add - Burn them to death with a fire. The essence of death, her CHampion. Fighter. etc. Clarification. >.>