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Edit: Got distracted and forgot to ask the question I came to this thread about.
During the mad-bahkatu-guard thing today, I heard someone state something along the lines of, "I've got the answer, straight from the horse's mouth (i.e. Damariel). Bahkatu get their power from the leylines and the leylines are all funky so that's why they're mad."
My first thought was, "Well of course they get their power from the leylines. We've known that since day one of the bahkatu/atabahi."
My second thought was, the leylines (seams) that were such a prominent part of Ashtan's history, architecture and culture - are they just part of Aetolia conveniently forgotten on purpose, or were they in fact actually the same leylines we all know about today? Just interpreted (and used) differently.
I'd left Ashtan and caring about all that balance stuff long before the Dreikathi invasion, so it hasn't occurred to me to question this until now.
Leylines are woven in and out of a great deal of the Aetolian lore if you care to look hard enough!
I was thinking much the same when I was writing the post.
Except, I sort of feel that I already learned the answer back in the day, and since forgot it when I stopped playing.
I've forgotten the details of so much lore that I used to know really well, and it's frustrating because I don't remember where I learned it from originally.
I did like the Ashtan/mystics/leylines/balance lore. I thought it was well done (albeit really misunderstood by the majority of the playerbase), so it's nice to hear here, that it is still relevant.
Are there any gods currently known with the actual -affliction/gift/whatever you wanna call it- of Undeath/Vampirism?
I'm told Ivoln (I honestly thought he was just the guy who created it, not that he was it himself) and possibly Chakrasul (thought the same case with her as Ivoln). And then there are others saying the new Iosyne might be undead too since she died and was pieced together again or something.
Some clarification would be nice! Thanks in advance.
In numerology, we were given some scrolls about the Ankyrean cabal founders. They knew all the numbers, they were already transcendent-unraveling each other like champs. (Apparently one of them did an aoe unravel. pfft, teachers pet.) -- Our guild tutor found their not-really-real books in 107MA and heres us 300 years later, tossing out quality unravels that would make mama proud.. but just about all our accomplishments are still 'we found a thing they did and when we messed with it we only died a couple times, highfive!'
So. How do we measure up? For example, would there be pretendsies Ankyrean books in Eocik's pile, the magic equivalent of quantum field theory and non-commutative geometry that just baffle us?
Have mortals pretendsies-advanced since 107MA?
Could we have theoretically made our own fancypants lgaktian clocks 'n progressive enchantments, or is that no different from saying 'tadaa ive made steam-powered locomotives'?
Your point, however, specifically concerns forms of magic. In regards to that, I think it's fair to say that while mortals have mastered some of the processes that the Ankyreans used, particularly drawing upon their innovations in the elements, the planes, and Numerology... the breadth of knowledge that the Ankyreans took for granted simply does not exist for players in the present day.
Players are running blind, and further scientific inquiry is severely impacted by the war-torn, diminished state of the world. The Third Epoch is more or less an Aetolian dark age. Drawing a math comparison (not for a second intended to be literal), Aetolia in general is only up to an algebra/basic geometry level, and the Ankyreans and other precursor civilizations - like the Mystics - had calculus and non-Euclidean geometry going on.
You can make guesses at the sort of things they were doing, and occasionally, you discover a process that works. Your understanding of why it works, though, is limited by the fact that you lack the tools to develop a more solid understanding. This is one explanation for why mysticism has traditionally surrounded a lot of magical applications; the people who have adopted them have invented ways to explain the unexplainable to themselves. Going point by point:
-If there are, you haven't found them or been able to translate them yet!
-You have, in fact. It's not much, but player-created works have been accepted as canon throughout Aetolia's history: It was a player event that created the moon cycle; tools have developed for understanding the constellations; Zahmekoses' Systemic Theophysics explains the basic structure of the physical world; guilds have developed new skills and new skillsets from time to time, often drawing inspiration from precursors in doing so; commercially available fireworks, bombs, instruments, and furniture have emerged; and greenhouses now exist whereas before they didn't. Kelki clockwork, following the destruction of Kelsys, has spread through the world, allowing for more sophisticated machinery (that is, nonetheless, very primitive by our standards).
-In theory, yes, although in practice it would be a bit like (to draw from my example above) doing calculus without knowing the significance of the processes you're using.
On another note, I've always been curious about the less scientific and magical, and more curious about the..I guess mystical. Like, say, the way a Syssin channels the shadows, is able to will their body out of phase with the rest of the Prime Material Plane.
We have Abduct, now, which allows us to gank someone else into phase-space for a short duration, which I believe rather signals an advancement in our 'ability' to do that, but look how long Syssin have existed. Could it be supposed that Syssin in the past could do the same, and more, or have things along that line remained more or less the same?
The reason I ask about our guild, is that it's specifically stated that both the Syssin and the Atabahi were formed and created, respectively, during the time of the Ankyreans. Though, to be completely honest, I'm a little ignorant of most other guilds' histories as a player, except maybe the paladins/infernals/sentinels and a little bit of the Indorani. It makes me curious if we've always been...'lesser', I guess, or if our abilities have decayed/risen over time.
I remember, involve me and I
learn.
-Benjamin Franklin
Many stories feature a precursor element, with various spins on the exact nature of those precursors, and Aetolia is no exception in that regard. I say all of this to establish the vein in which these elements were established, and to emphasize that the Third Epoch is, in large part, a very stagnant technological period that is diminished from the higher enlightenment and achievement of the Second Epoch. The Ankyreans are like the Roman Empire or the Greeks, and you exist within a more splintered, feudal society which hasn't quite managed to replace the power vacuum.
Just to clarify: you're correct in that the Syssin and Atabahi were created during the time of the Ankyreans. The Syssin, canonically, derive their abilities from two sources: Ankyrean science/training and Severn's blessings. The Atabahi, however, were not so original; the Ankyreans stole the ideas from the Mystic, who were the first to discover the ability. The Atabahi were used for various planar experiments due to their hardiness, whereas the Syssin were elite guardsmen and defenders of Spinesreach. It is almost certain that both of them had access to more knowledge and skill, and thus could accomplish things beyond the current player scope.
Your abilities have risen over time. It's easy to explain, for example, the Syssin shift away from illusions to more reliable sleights as an evolution in combat mechanics. It's entirely possible that older Syssin did the same, or had a similarly reliable process. It's also possible that the madness that forced the dissolution of the guilds had an Ankyrean solution - or that the red-shirted way in which the Ankyreans used Atabahi kept their numbers low enough that madness never reached a critical mass. You're still not as good as you were during Ankyrean times - not by a long shot - but no one is. The Grand Artifice, the loss of knowledge, and the subsequent state of war did a number on everyone. Recovery from that is going to take a while.
Lots to think about either way. Really makes me wonder if like, the old Pre-Artifice Ankyrean-serving Syssin's techniques were actually LOST, or if the Grand Artifice 'lost' them temporarily, if you get my drift.
I remember, involve me and I
learn.
-Benjamin Franklin
Cause I originally thought they did but upon speaking to old Syssin and being in Severn's Order, over time I was corrected to believe otherwise in that Severn taught them/"showed them the way" so to speak but the powers themselves are NOT fueled or come from Him directly.
I'm really interested to see which direction the technology of the game takes us, given that we've already got magic and mysticism and such. Hoping something along those lines will come out soon and expand upon what we have already. Thanks, @Damariel, for elaborating
I remember, involve me and I
learn.
-Benjamin Franklin
I figure I won't get a straight-up, entirely complete picture, so I thought I just explain it the way I interpret it.
I look at Ylem energy as radiation, sort of. It is unhealthy in extensive doses, and can cause problems with sapient beings- as evidenced by the lycans. That said, it also seems to be a pretty nebulous thing, which is sort of gaseous in a natural (Ylem mist) state.
I also think that the body absorbs Ylem energy, or becomes particularly receptive to it, when in a lycan state, which is part of where madness comes from, but that's for another rant about ideas of Ylem.
I say gas, but I mean that in the sense of being able to see it, and see the flow of it when Ylem mist is released. Ylem itself dissipates quickly because it is a form of energy that breaks down or transfers easily into its surroundings. In large amounts, it saturates players, giving them auras. In small amounts, it seeps harmlessly into the surroundings.
Pylons appear to be sufficiently large, and probably complex, to act as a compressor. Similar to the way that CO2 can be compressed into dry ice. Pylons compress and organize the Ylem particles into a lattice structure, creating crystalline formations that are unstable, but solid. Oxidization and heat appears to release some of the stored Ylem energy, which I am describing as forcibly organized radioactive decay, and that is utilized by bombcrafting.
However, since it is energized particulate, it doesn't stay in lattice formation forever, and eventually the solid crystal deteriorates into nothingness, because it undergoes a process like half-life. To me, that also helps to explain why research trees are so costly to maintain. Whatever tech we have in place is powered by a very short-lived material that behaves akin to highly radioactive substances.