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Re: Orrery
I honestly do not understand why every single issue people have in a RP game has to come to the forums. Play the game and stop being jerks to one another OOC. There's enough horrible things going on outside of our little escape from the real world. Be adults. Be kind to one another.
Rhine
0
Re: Orrery
It does have to be separated though. That's the thing, Iesid. If we don't separate the two, there is GOING to be points of contention that will spill out from the intended avenue of PVP. As I had previously mentioned, we as a playerbase cannot self moderate. And I can start naming off supporting reasons that prove that we have no self-moderation. Additionally, I am not blaming anyone for utilizing a shrine to give themselves an advantage.
It was a sound tactical choice that was unexpected due to the fact that it's never been previously utilized (except during Holy Wars). More so that it was used when they were outnumbered. The tactics behind it I can understand. So it is not "being a sore winner". However, the problem remains is that Divine Orders should not have sway inside the Orrery, let alone have abilities used inside Orrery. Nor should either side be able to have such an edge all because they have a shrine in said location (Shadow or Spirit).
And yes, while the conflict can be organic, by being organic it -will- devolve into chain defilings. I'm sure that the individual has an RP reason for doing what they are doing, just as I am sure the Order will have an RP reason for doing what they have to do to retaliate. While it is organic conflict, the amount of conflict that is going to arise from such actions is going to become negative and some people are not going to be happy about it.
It was a sound tactical choice that was unexpected due to the fact that it's never been previously utilized (except during Holy Wars). More so that it was used when they were outnumbered. The tactics behind it I can understand. So it is not "being a sore winner". However, the problem remains is that Divine Orders should not have sway inside the Orrery, let alone have abilities used inside Orrery. Nor should either side be able to have such an edge all because they have a shrine in said location (Shadow or Spirit).
And yes, while the conflict can be organic, by being organic it -will- devolve into chain defilings. I'm sure that the individual has an RP reason for doing what they are doing, just as I am sure the Order will have an RP reason for doing what they have to do to retaliate. While it is organic conflict, the amount of conflict that is going to arise from such actions is going to become negative and some people are not going to be happy about it.
Ngl, chain defiling shrines an order without an active god, whose only member isn't on during Aetolian primetime, when the order is otherwise empty, is a pretty low blow.Also.... you remember when Templars blew up 40 shrines when the people of Iosyne's Order was all offline. Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Rhyot
0
Re: Orrery
Well, time to post another hot take:
I am against the notion that we shouldn't mix Peanut Butter (Shrines) and Chocolate (Orrery). We don't need stuff segregated into such bland lanes, we just need to act like adults. Just handle it IC and self-moderate. Stop blaming a person for making a sound tactical decision and just respond to it instead. I mean, ffs... y'all won Orrery and you're still complaining about the shrines, and this gives off the perception of a sore winner.
Situations like this make organic conflict, so long as one side isn't a bad actor. At this current time, I do think one side is being a bad actor. Ngl, chain defiling shrines an order without an active god, whose only member isn't on during Aetolian primetime, when the order is otherwise empty, is a pretty low blow. Especially when the person doing the defiling is basically giving no options for recourse.
That's not self-moderating. That's you being a bad actor. Anybody cheering this party on is also a bad actor.
Edit: in this case, self moderation would be going after the shrine in question in this thread and just that shrine.
I am against the notion that we shouldn't mix Peanut Butter (Shrines) and Chocolate (Orrery). We don't need stuff segregated into such bland lanes, we just need to act like adults. Just handle it IC and self-moderate. Stop blaming a person for making a sound tactical decision and just respond to it instead. I mean, ffs... y'all won Orrery and you're still complaining about the shrines, and this gives off the perception of a sore winner.
Situations like this make organic conflict, so long as one side isn't a bad actor. At this current time, I do think one side is being a bad actor. Ngl, chain defiling shrines an order without an active god, whose only member isn't on during Aetolian primetime, when the order is otherwise empty, is a pretty low blow. Especially when the person doing the defiling is basically giving no options for recourse.
That's not self-moderating. That's you being a bad actor. Anybody cheering this party on is also a bad actor.
Edit: in this case, self moderation would be going after the shrine in question in this thread and just that shrine.
Iesid
4
Re: Commodity Production Ideas!
No, that's patently false. A number of us have also presented detailed numbers over the months, whether that is through other forum threads, message to Razmael as he requested, or in general discussions on Discord.
Czcienn
4
Re: Commodity Production Ideas!
I think it's probably because no one has laid out the numbers in a concise, clear, and well organized way like @zaila did. I've seen a lot of arguments that used words like "frustrating", "problem", "failure", "overpriced", "tedious" and other similar descriptors. These are all subjective. We all have different tolerances for tedium, all have different ideas on what entails success, all have different ideas on what things "should be". It doesn't tell you a lot beyond the fact that people feel in a particular way and that there may be an issue, but given that the language used to express it is subjective it's hard to tell.
The fewer value words you can use and the more numbers you include in an argument about game mechanics the better. You end up providing a clear description of the facts in a way that's useful, testable, and reproducible. Tiur can test how long a process takes. He can't really test for something being tedious.
The fewer value words you can use and the more numbers you include in an argument about game mechanics the better. You end up providing a clear description of the facts in a way that's useful, testable, and reproducible. Tiur can test how long a process takes. He can't really test for something being tedious.
Re: Templar - Bladefire - Charging Changes
What else in bladefire can realistically be used in a group. That's my question at this point. I'm ignoring the above for reasons of not having been part of it and coming back around.Templar can still use Crescent and Hemorrhage in groups to do massive amounts of damage in a single prompt. They just have to build it - and it'll be useful against tanky pricks like Mazzion, Mjoll, or me, especially in skirmish size lessers. Everybody loses usefulness in these big 20-person ones.
Is there anything that Templar has to offer in a group besides the insta-gib that can be made useful in group? Should they be looking at the limb stuff? Can that be done in smaller groups or mid sized groups? Can Hemo be used effectively in conjunction with other classes? Is there anything they can do to make up for the loss of the arc-cheese. Don't care if my wording is agreeable, trying to learn something here. I don't play Spirit and I don't know enough about Templar to try and throw out advice, but from watching people like @Rijetta in web go back and forth with @Mjoll over their skills in web to know that if something isn't working right, you should ask questions and I thank both of them for making me see this and realizing I still have plenty to learn about WF. Same thing should be done for Templar right now I think. Ask questions, test things, see what can be adjusted and go from there.
Rijetta
4
Re: Templar - Bladefire - Charging Changes
It was ruled shortly after the Proxy War that a group heading to a lesser is fair game to attack outside aura. It was Spirit that caused Shadow to issue about that particular instance and find out (the hard way) that it was, in fact, okay, as our group was intending on fighting. Hound Track is simply an extension of that ruling. I know we've been hit by traps outside of a lesser area while moving toward it. I don't really see what the issue is beyond mere annoyance.
Iazamat
2
Re: Templar - Bladefire - Charging Changes
1.) My new outlook on the class is that anything that is good in it is inevitably going to be nerfed, because that has been what has happened in the past 6 years, as someone who has fought against it when I played Shadow, and played it now on Spirit. The entire Bladefire skillset is unusuable at lessers. That is a genuine fact. Until Keroc does any additional changes, the skillset is actually useless in group combat, beyond using empowers, of which in 2-3 hits you aren't going to do anything useful with, other than additional damage that may or may not put you on par with other classes.Keroc made a good response, I've made my opinions known, and everyone else has too. I'm probably just going to stop participating in lessers as much in the future. Not really much of a point when I get targeted first and die every time, and now an entire skillset of my most heavily invested class can't even be used at them anymore. So, okay. Thread over, you guys win. Good job.You may be frustrated, but your entire response to reasonable discussion and perspectives has been hyperbolic and childish. While you're "quitting" lessers for another reason, taking a step back isn't unwarranted in this particular situation, and I hope you can learn something from this and walk away with a new outlook on the class, especially after the full range of changes are implemented.
Edit: As for being targeted first, we have a number of players on Shadow, particularly mages and lycans, who end up consistently being first target, dying, and not really reaping any reward from it other than what their lesser points can get them. They soldier on. You could learn something from that.
2.) In regards to being targeted first, yeah, I am targeted first. A lot. Regardless of it making tactical sense or not. I have admittedly used this to our advantage sometimes, but when these group fights lately are so large, that I can't react or use Aegis or anything, it makes me wonder how is that any different to me deleting Bulrok with one combo? Because it took 4-5 more people of the 22 on one side to kill me instead of 1 killing 1 with something that you can't even spam?
So yeah, I will take a break from lessers. Until Keroc fixes the skillset back to where it's actually usuable in group combat again.
Aeryx
3
Re: Templar - Bladefire - Charging Changes
Keroc made a good response, I've made my opinions known, and everyone else has too. I'm probably just going to stop participating in lessers as much in the future. Not really much of a point when I get targeted first and die every time, and now an entire skillset of my most heavily invested class can't even be used at them anymore. So, okay. Thread over, you guys win. Good job.
Aeryx
1