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But sometimes it feels like that time I was an officer in an RP FC in ff14 - at one event I ran a ton of people (ten to twenty) would show up, and the next week I'd have, like, two people. No feedback, no criticisms, nothing in between but the occasional 'i had fun!' and I'm left doing guesswork as to why one approach worked once and then never again. At times it's worse in Duiran because I get a crumb or two of feedback, adjust accordingly, and continue to get nothing. I don't think I'm alone in that.

Duiran as a whole feels a lot like that impenetrable enigma. In one day, we get lore drops that should light a fire under our collective butt (most importantly, Haern reveals that Dendara is not only dying but actually in the death sleep) but seemingly really struggle to move forward with any of it despite what seems to me the best efforts of many players. I know I've chased geese down rabbit holes for RL hours in the time since and turned up, as best I can tell, absolutely nothing of value, and I don't think I'm alone in that either.

This has been something that has been very frustrating as of late. It's been especially prevalent in the past few years and I don't want to just call it 'apathy' and move on, it's more complex than that, but I don't know how else to describe it.

It's like... a lack of curiosity, and a lack of urgency both. Sib will get up to some crazy Shaman stuff and it's so disheartening to have no one bite, let alone riff off the situation. Or, like you described it, a lukewarm 'I had fun!' and nothing more. Everyone is nice enough, there's just no bite in anyone.

I think one of the mistakes Duiran might be making is that things get built up into unfeasible expectations. Eireachdus is a prime example of this. It's taxing and comes bundled up with a lot of stress in what ultimately amounts to navel-gazing. Maybe it's the reliability and predictability that's made it so unimportant over the years? There's just this great sense of no one caring about it.

Another problem I have with the Rhythm/Cycle/Balance stuff is that some of it can be restrictive - and honestly it wouldn't take too much to fix, but it's tough to go against the grain, and it's tough to have your character risk displeasing Dad. But now that I think about it, perhaps it's the player interpretation that's being wielded as a justification for so many years of neutrality. Maybe it doesn't have to be that way!

The other thing that's remarkable here is that there are clearly a good chunk of people who care deeply about this problem to try and do something about it, and all agree on the problem, but it's reached that point where it's an open secret, clearly.

This is something I've said before: Azvosh, Dendara, and the Shadow/Spirit plane, while absolutely interesting (and Azvosh/Dendara are some of my favourite parts of the game and its lore) are passive, intangible pieces of the game that discourage conflict rather than encouraging it.

If something happens to the Pillars, Azvosh crashes into Prime and everything goes kaput. If Dendara dies, everything goes kaput. If Shadow breaches Prime, everything goes brainwashed kaput. If Spirit breaches Prime, everything goes brainwashed kaput.

This is not compelling or conducive to conflict between orgs, as it is in no side's interest to potentially lose everything just to "get one over" on their enemy.

If this planar lore was a background set piece, this largely wouldn't be an issue. They would add flavour to their respective orgs and other aspects of org RP would encourage conflict. However, that's not how the planar lore has been introduced or implemented to the game at large, instead defining entire orgs and being the lynchpin of their RP and the game's "conflict".

Its unhealthy and, you're right, it needs to change. The planar lore needs to be shifted into the background or retconned entirely so as to be tangible, interactable parts of the game world that can be attacked and have stakes beyond "everyone dies".

I've been putting some thought into this over the last few weeks and thought a forum post would be the best way to express my opinion on the matter. I am aware that, as a city leader (and a long tenured one, if we look at all the times Iesid has been some form of leader in Duiran), it is something I am theoretically in the position to fix. That is not really why I am posting this; I'm not really looking for intervention or some kind of admin assistance, and I'm definitely not here looking to shame the people who work hard as guildmasters or other Speakers in the council. However, I think pretending there isn't a problem is doing a disservice to the other organizations in the game that depend on our participation to have the game world feel 'real' or 'alive', and it is also doing a disservice to ourselves as players who log in to find something interesting to do.

To cut to the chase, I think Duiran is an org that is largely defined by its apathy. No matter what angle a leader tries to go 'in' at, it never seems to really stick. The 'the world is bigger than us' and 'big picture' thinking is just too disconnected from the day-to-day lives that Duirani citizens seem to want to roleplay. 'The Cycle' is an excellent concept on paper, but it has been boiled down to a very tepid 'I guess we kinda dislike undead and vampires, sure' with back-and-forth law adjustments and hazy policy changes that give me the impression of an organization in full identity crisis. The apathy to organizational roleplay is so strong that a lot of characters did not even remember that Dendara is dying - a reminder from Haern about the core of our org RP ended up sending the entire council into a spiral of 'what if we do this?' and we have had not much to show for it after it inevitably burned out into 'whatever just put it on the town crier'.

Not only is the organization apathetic, I kind of perceive it as afraid. Duiran seems terrified of the idea of being the aggressor, villain, or antagonist. If nobody wants to be our villain and we won't play the villain, that means there is no story. Bloodloch and Enorian seem to be happy to bash each other's heads in, but there's no organization that wants to pick that fight with Duiran and Duiran sure doesn't seem to want to pick that fight either. To me, that's not fun. It makes me want to go do something else - or play someone else or somewhere else that isn't Aetolia. I don't want to feel forced to join Bloodloch or Enorian if I want a piece of the action, but Duiran's collective outlook (leaders and all) seem to be collectively unwilling to do anything besides say 'well we have to help Dendara' or 'well Dendara has to come first'.

Dendara, the core aspect of our organization's story, is being used as a way to avoid interaction/conflict and that is not healthy whatsoever. Something has to change. I feel as if we pick and choose what we care about in our organization's roleplay and, when we do not want to do a part of it, we write it off as 'for Dendara'.

Am I crazy? Am I just expecting an org to warmonger? Is it unreasonable for me to want my organization to do cool things instead of trying to make friends with every single NPC and every single PC org?

It feels like more a false stereotype of fantasy settings used to justify idle hands than anything else, if I'm being honest. The good guys can always go out and make sure their protectorates have what they need, they can always try to indoctrinate new protectorates, attempt to convert entire cultures, burn down the villages of heretics and slaughter those who won't convert or actively stand in the way of the Age of Dawn, proselytize at every opportunity (see: @Kurak), attempt to consecrate grounds to their various gods, etc.

You don't have to wait for the admin to respond to any of that. You don't need anyone's approval for it. This is going to sound uncharitable, but it feels less like an issue of permission and more that the attached consequences of doing so aren't something anyone wants to suffer.

And sorry for hijacking your thread, @Iesid.

I agree with this sentiment. I play as a religious zealot and I have a cool scripture to quote, sure. But I feel my rp would largely be the same if Kurak was Enorian. It is mostly a matter of shaking off the manacles of being reactive and being willing to get out and cause stories. Some people will dislike it and try to kill your character for it but that just means you are doing it right. If everyone loves your character odds are you are not creating impactful stories.

I think sometimes we can get so wrapped up in critical analysis that we end up psyching ourselves out of a lot of opportunities. Iesid's said exactly what I had in mind when I first responded to this thread in that these story hooks are prompts for players to wield and use to embark on a journey. Player agency potential is at an all-time high with all the tools currently in place now. Sure, some can still be refined but they -are- there. Just unfortunately underutilized.

Consider this: Players can organically select an agenda based on what's important to them and execute the concept now knowing that there can be some form of respected resolution if outside forces intervene. And this is without the need for heavy, if any, admin assistance at all.

A Syssin spies on an organization and discovers they have come into possession of interesting relics/artifacts? They plan a heist or maybe just sell the information to the Archivists or blackmail another org because [insert theme/hook of choice]. The Archivists lockdown a zone because they want to do some experimentation RP or believe the area holds a clue to [insert theme/hook of choice here]. Perhaps the Illuminai want to set up an outpost or encampments for healing/purging because [insert theme/hook of choice here]. Maybe Duiran shifts their policy on Spirean affairs and applies heavy organizational pressure now because [insert theme/hook of choice here].

They can hit up their crafters for supplies to try and get the city abuzz with activity in preparation for the operation: posters, manacles, food/drink, tents, whatever they need. Engage in political talks, leverage treaties or contacts/relationships to push their agenda. Using the context clues from their own skills, established lore, etc. organizations can craft a fun story of their own that is as serious or silly as they desire it to be. "Woah! Did you know the esophagus of a Grook produces 2 metric tons of kinetic force when spitting? Maybe we can harness this into a weapon somehow! FOR SCIENCE!"

All these in turn can prompt several things. A Celani might get inspired and involve themselves to help enhance the story. Another player or organization might catch wind of the activity and seize the opportunity to get involved and mix in their own agenda. If diplomacy fails and things escalate to violence, players can now use battlefields to dictate terms of resolution to any given story. The Duirani prompts aren't any different.

Are there players that will eye-roll and ignore your attempts at storytelling for one reason or another? Sure. Will there be times where the story hits a roadblock or questions go unanswered? Yes. While I can understand the fears and frustrations that can accompany it, failure is a healthy part of the process. Take breaks here and there if you have to but remember to keep trying. There can be no progress without a bit of player respect, ambition and desire to go out and do things.