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The Reality of it all...
Hello Aetolians,
As many are well aware I am the player of Oonagh....those who frequent the forums can read of many of the things I have done during my tenure on numerous characters across many platforms and organizations. Recently though a dark splotch on the community has seemed to fester and I want to not only take accountability to speak of my actions as a player, but also those which persist that cant seem to shake the line that separates IC and OOC communications.
We have seen as a community many technological leaps since the early days of MUDs, back on Telnet...which to some of our players may be a foreign word. We have seen each other through schoolwork, finals, dating, addiction, marriages, and deaths. When I made Oonagh, it was after me being a historically volatile character was wearing upon me as a person OOC. I created Oonagh and kept his secret identity of me the player secret for upwards of two years.....I had very few problems, in fact Oonagh was beloved by many, encouraging, motivational, and informational. Never had any problems from any players....until it slowly spread who I was, then the community turned on me, comparisons to my previous characters began, and I was discounted as a player completely and as an IC role.
I began to feel the wear and tear that I felt in previous times, because for all intents and purposes there is a collection of a few players who in my....over a decade of playing, have dictated the course of the roleplay environment and if you are not part of that group, you are an outsider, and wrong and bad. Then an opportunity came up, a silver lining so to speak, and change began to happen, immersion came back...roleplay increased, and alot of fun began to happen as the roleplay environment began to diversify. The "old-guard" did not like this so much, and did as they do and began to strike at it with intent to destroy that which would provide change to a game that ultimately NEEDS the excitement many in it's playerbase crave. Because at the end of the day it is a game, with a world that is dynamic and should have change in it constantly, developments, things beyond it being a chatroom with fancy clothes and baubles. Things outside of the circle that provides comfort, because in a fantasy world, there needs to be risk, heartache, strife....not just comfortable happy fun times.
Then the comparisons came...the social justice...the outcry to destroy something different.
So deep and harsh.
Then the OOC attacks, the discounting of ones credit in game.
Novices reaching out IC for knowledge and information and making assessments...
While being told on Discord that you are not a great source of information
Discounted because someone does not agree with your particular brand of roleplay.
Then beyond that getting messages in discord from people you dont even know, who share chat exceprts with you saying that the aforementioned group of people are working actively to remove you and others who agree with you from organizations. Is it hearsay, I dont know....but the attitudes and messages relayed say as much. All while the producer sits back refusing to make an assessment on how this kind of environment is harming the game, and refusing to make an answer or even acknowledge your messages and those of many others who are reaching out for information.
I have been in plenty of IRE games, and no other administrative team would tolerate this kind of nonsense, in fact I find it absolutely cowardly that this persists, because purely alot of the old players that are the issue, are friends with volunteers and admins that couldnt be damned to moderate the Discord Server. I mean theres a few players that have went up and down in the pools so many times you would think they were a buoy.
They like to say that there is a modicum of confidentiality in the Aetolia pools, but really its just a rotating cast of the Old Guard that help their friends and have them join one anothers Order and continue the persistant nonsense that has perpetuated the toxic environment that has been allowed to fester in Aetolia for well over a decade.
Tiur inhereted this mess, and frankly, hes in over his head and I think he knows it.
In fact I think a good portion of the newer playerbase knows it, alongside some of us old players that have seen this go on for years and have been helpless to stop it.
If I get deleted for sharing my feelings, I get it.
I am just hopeful that some of you get to read it and realize that the end of the day its a business and they are going to try and silence it to cover their ass.
At least I wasn't afraid to speak from my heart. Anyone who knows me, knows that about me.
As many are well aware I am the player of Oonagh....those who frequent the forums can read of many of the things I have done during my tenure on numerous characters across many platforms and organizations. Recently though a dark splotch on the community has seemed to fester and I want to not only take accountability to speak of my actions as a player, but also those which persist that cant seem to shake the line that separates IC and OOC communications.
We have seen as a community many technological leaps since the early days of MUDs, back on Telnet...which to some of our players may be a foreign word. We have seen each other through schoolwork, finals, dating, addiction, marriages, and deaths. When I made Oonagh, it was after me being a historically volatile character was wearing upon me as a person OOC. I created Oonagh and kept his secret identity of me the player secret for upwards of two years.....I had very few problems, in fact Oonagh was beloved by many, encouraging, motivational, and informational. Never had any problems from any players....until it slowly spread who I was, then the community turned on me, comparisons to my previous characters began, and I was discounted as a player completely and as an IC role.
I began to feel the wear and tear that I felt in previous times, because for all intents and purposes there is a collection of a few players who in my....over a decade of playing, have dictated the course of the roleplay environment and if you are not part of that group, you are an outsider, and wrong and bad. Then an opportunity came up, a silver lining so to speak, and change began to happen, immersion came back...roleplay increased, and alot of fun began to happen as the roleplay environment began to diversify. The "old-guard" did not like this so much, and did as they do and began to strike at it with intent to destroy that which would provide change to a game that ultimately NEEDS the excitement many in it's playerbase crave. Because at the end of the day it is a game, with a world that is dynamic and should have change in it constantly, developments, things beyond it being a chatroom with fancy clothes and baubles. Things outside of the circle that provides comfort, because in a fantasy world, there needs to be risk, heartache, strife....not just comfortable happy fun times.
Then the comparisons came...the social justice...the outcry to destroy something different.
So deep and harsh.
Then the OOC attacks, the discounting of ones credit in game.
Novices reaching out IC for knowledge and information and making assessments...
While being told on Discord that you are not a great source of information
Discounted because someone does not agree with your particular brand of roleplay.
Then beyond that getting messages in discord from people you dont even know, who share chat exceprts with you saying that the aforementioned group of people are working actively to remove you and others who agree with you from organizations. Is it hearsay, I dont know....but the attitudes and messages relayed say as much. All while the producer sits back refusing to make an assessment on how this kind of environment is harming the game, and refusing to make an answer or even acknowledge your messages and those of many others who are reaching out for information.
I have been in plenty of IRE games, and no other administrative team would tolerate this kind of nonsense, in fact I find it absolutely cowardly that this persists, because purely alot of the old players that are the issue, are friends with volunteers and admins that couldnt be damned to moderate the Discord Server. I mean theres a few players that have went up and down in the pools so many times you would think they were a buoy.
They like to say that there is a modicum of confidentiality in the Aetolia pools, but really its just a rotating cast of the Old Guard that help their friends and have them join one anothers Order and continue the persistant nonsense that has perpetuated the toxic environment that has been allowed to fester in Aetolia for well over a decade.
Tiur inhereted this mess, and frankly, hes in over his head and I think he knows it.
In fact I think a good portion of the newer playerbase knows it, alongside some of us old players that have seen this go on for years and have been helpless to stop it.
If I get deleted for sharing my feelings, I get it.
I am just hopeful that some of you get to read it and realize that the end of the day its a business and they are going to try and silence it to cover their ass.
At least I wasn't afraid to speak from my heart. Anyone who knows me, knows that about me.
13
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Experience Gained: 47720 (Special) [total: 2933660]
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Hi! I'm Justin. I'm the old player behind Seir, and the newer character of Nisavi. I run the Free City of Delve Discord server, which has always had the goal of uniting both tethers in hobbies ASIDE from Aetolia, in order to mend a lot of the gaps and misconceived notions that we can have about one another while playing the game. Speaking of playing the game, I've been playing IRE for about 20-21 years, since I was ten years old. Yep. I've seen a good deal. Where am I going with this, you might ask? I'm starting from the platform from where I can empathize with Oonagh here. Like Oonagh, I've gone through my fair share of both "popular" and "unpopular" characters. In my younger years, I played characters in Imperian and Achaea that were so contentious and volatile that I don't even name who they are to this day because I'd rather let sleeping dogs lie -- and like Oonagh, I know how long the memories of the playerbase can be, and how swiftly preconceived notions can fester within such a small community. Even as Seir, there was a point in time where it felt like everyone was against me, even people who I had never spoken to ever before were saying nasty and terrible things about me as a person when I had never interacted with them either in character or out of character. I was accused of being a stalker, a terrible person, biased, and pretty much every negative association you can think of by people who did not even know who I was. It took a break from the game, as well as a number of private, individual conversations with folks for them to realize that I was not as bad as I was painted to be, but I will not lie if I said that I still don't harbour some small amount of resentment towards the people who treated me like that back then. In any event, on the subject of toxic communities, Aetolia is no exception to this rule, and if I'm frank, probably suffers from the largest and most egregious examples of metagame, elitism, and generally toxic behavior that I've experienced in my entire time of IRE. Some of you may disagree, some of you may say that I don't know what I'm talking about. Let me clarify by stating that this is my subjective opinion. However, I maintain this stance due to multiple instances of "IRC Mafia"-ish behavior in multiple organizations, Discord metagaming, and one of the more recent examples that lead to a long time player leaving the organization that she had been a part of since character creation because the lines between IC and OOC got blurred.
With that said, this brings me to the part of the post where I address you, @Oonagh. Let me first start this post by saying that I think you're a good person. I have nothing against you on an individual level, and I can recall the time where even I've ranted to you about the actions taken by some players. I think you're a stand-up guy when you don't let anger get the better of you, and I know just how funny and jovial you're capable of being. I kept your secret when you accidentally let it slip to me who your previous characters were, and I did not begrudge you in the slightest for keeping it a secret. With all that said, I do know how angry and vindictive you can be at times. One of the earliest interactions I ever had with you was as Seir when I killed an Atabahi loyal for in character reasons and you proceeded to chew me out for it in less than colorful ways as your previous character. Still, I shrugged it off and never held it against you, because frankly I had dealt with it so much at that point from other players that I had become numb. Later on, you came to apologize to me when you realized that I wasn't a terrible person, that I wasn't doing what I was doing to be an ass, and you and I came to be pretty good friends. As your friend, I am going to tell you that I am disappointed in one of the most recent screenshots that I saw of something you had said regarding another player. It was a very metagame statement targeted against a specific player, and the fact that it was said has generated a large cloud of uncertainty, doubt, and ill will between the affected player and a few other unknowing and knowing parties that were involved. The end result of what you said in an OOC medium was a perception of targeted harassment that caused this player to leave an organization that they had never left since their character was 18. It is one of the reasons why I have said multiple times elsewhere that Duiran's defense of Bamathis goes beyond nonsensical and treads very deeply into OOC territory. However, that is a separate topic for discussion for another day. In any event, Oonagh, I want you to know that your apology isn't lost and I hear it. I truly do. I know how it feels to be treated differently because rude, disdainful individuals have infected others with preconceived notions when they don't often even know you as a person or have even taken the time to get to know you. I know how it feels to lash out in a self-destructive spiral that only makes the situation worse because you don't know who to trust and you just want the playerbase to accept you as who you are rather than who you were. I know how it feels to feel isolated and alone in this small community of a game that you love, but others would sooner see you quit than see you happy. I know how all of those feel, but I am still disappointed in you because I know you are a good person. I know that you have a creative mind who has done a lot of good as Oonagh for the Ascendril and establishing some lore for a seldomly ever seen race. I want you to know, though, that I am here for you as your friend. If you, or anyone else reading this, feels like no one will ever give you a chance and listen to you: I will. I have been an able and willing ear for any who feels that they have been mistreated or feels isolated. Make no mistake, I will always be honest with you, but I will be there to support any one of you if you need it.
With that said, I'd like to move on to address the administration. Let me state that I agree with the assessment of Ehtias, Oonagh, and a few others. I do feel the current Pools, of whom I know many that are up there right now, has become a revolving door of individuals who have historically been able to simply ask and be brought back up into their Celani characters. Let me also state though that I have nothing against these players. I know full well that, as players, some of them have said some rather nasty or negative things about me, but I have nothing against them as people. I also do feel that while the Pools share a certain sense of camaraderie after knowing each other for so long (bordering on decades for a few), it has fostered a sense of "cliqueishness" up there. In fact, one of the first questions I was asked when being interviewed to go up there was, "Are you sure you'd be able to fit in because we have a certain kind of atmosphere up here" or something along those lines. The Pools have had a history of elitist behaviour, and I know full well of this by the complaints of some former administrators who were chased off by said toxic behavior and the fact that emotes once existed that teased and ridiculed other players. All of this left a very unpleasant taste in my mouth when I went up there, because some of those emotes even mocked me as a player. Combined with a few other behaviors and actions, my log ins as a Celani got fewer and fewer, and eventually I stepped down altogether. Now, Tiur has taken actions on a lot of these -- apparently those emotes no longer exist and will never exist again according to folks. I also want to make it clear that people like Tiur, Razmael, and Keroc love this game and the people in it. Even if it was just for a brief time, I've seen their passion and excitement for a lot of the stuff that they do, or try to do, and I'm usually the first ones in their defense when they're accused of bias, not listening to the playerbase, or what have you. Their enthusiasm is truly infectious, but I can understand how said enthusiasm can get sorely dampened when people reject the projects that you've put your heart into, or who make unknowing, unthinking complaints... Which then brings me to my last subject to address: the playerbase.
I'm gonna be frank with you all and re-iterate this point: Aetolia has one of the most toxic playerbases that I have ever seen in any gaming community. The sheer amount of petty bullshit, snide comments, mockery, insults, vitriol, metagaming, harassment, and all of that other assorted nonsense is enough to make a sociopath blush. I have watched IRC communities dictate and plan things that should be handled in-game, and coordinate horse shit upon people who made the mistake of not "fitting in". I've watched Discord communities routinely split and lambast one another for being on different tethers, or having different opinions. I've watched players routinely spit at admins with accusations of bias, insults, and what have you because they downgraded a skill for a class, buffed an opposing class, refused to nerf a class, taking too long on issues, taking too long on responding to e-mails in the midst of a pandemic, and so forth. This is a game. A game that is largely fueled by the enthusiasm and good will of volunteers, and a paid staff that don't get paid nearly enough with all the vitriol they routinely get thrown their way. Don't get me wrong, I rant too -- I have ranted about players, I have complained about the administration, I have been in a clique and complained about cliques, I have metagamed in the past, I have been a troll of a PKer, and I have been biased in classread reports. I am a part of this community and I've been as much of a negative element as I've tried to be a positive, but I admit what my shortcomings are and I try to be a better person, mature, and grow from them. The key thing that I want you guys to take away from this is to take a step back, breathe, and catch yourself before you say vicious things about other players, to include the administration, and ignore the petty bullshit and just play the game. If the petty bullshit is overwhelming, take a step back and just go do something else for a bit. I fully understand that this post will absolutely be contentious. I understand that it may very well be removed as well, but I've said what needs to be said on this subject. I hope those of you who actually took the time to read this mammoth wall of text takes something positive away from it.
BUT I do chime in to say that I'm not going to delete Oonagh. It's okay to disagree with me, to not like me, to not like how I do things, etc.
The fact this is a statement a good chunk of people can relate to, and understand without any proof of reference speaks loudly enough.
Personally, while Discord has helped to make the small Aetolia community feel closer, I also understand how it can embolden people to cast aspersions without care, and how it can blur the lines between IC and OOC communications. It's a difficult boundary to toe; sometimes it is unwittingly crossed, and not everyone can keep the barrier. After all, it's easier to get information about stuff through mediums outside the game, than it may necessarily be to get it in it.
I sincerely hope things look up for you sooner than later, and people think twice about stuff they want to use in-game.
I don't think enforcing retirement is a good thing, but I do think that more distance in general would be healthy. Even if I trust the volunteers to be on the up and up, I honestly don't trust the playerbase to not abuse this relationship and use anything they hear from the Pools to metagame.
The recent criticism of dur Naya has stemmed largely from the ridiculous extremes that people in Duiran and the Sentinels have gone to defend Bamathis worship. A God that literally has the God of Artifice, which both orgs stand opposed to, as an Order representative. He is solidly aligned with Shadow -- and yet he's the only Shadow God allowed a shrine in Duiran, and people have gone to really meta lengths to protect him. The dur Naya, including myself, rightly called this out in Sentinel news posts.
Point is: Bamathis is not a neutral God. He's not even the closest thing that Shadow HAS to a neutral God. Even the one that IS closest to a neutral God has been banned from Duiran and the Sentinels. Y'all who are Duiran folks in his Order should've known that a day would eventually come where you'd have to choose.
The part @Lin posted above was a facetious comment made to Fezzix, in which he asked what was going on.
Nothing was acted on in game based on any of this on my regard at least.
As I said above the conversation from someone saying OOCly Lin and Sibatti were having issues with Bamathis, and I was just being a turd....cause turds be turds.
I also just had a long chat with @Seir that clarified the potential mis-interpretation.
I want to let you know @Sibatti - In your time from when I first started playing, up to current...
You have been one of the most consistent and strongest Roleplayers I have had the experience of interacting with. People enjoy your company, and your interactions.
I ...in "big brain time and plotting" wanted to think of ways I could ...legitimately roleplay combatting your RP, because lets face it, im a series of ellipsis and croaks. It was bound to happen and it didnt, and then the whole unfortunate and terribly unnecessary discussion about nazis, and what have you came about. \
(That is a whole other can of worms I was thankfully not present for)
Lets not mis-interpret....what people want us to hear or think. There is enough of that going around.
I invite you to reach out to me and chat, I think I owe you enough to hear your perspective and share honestly what I have been experiencing through this whole interesting arc as well.
Not even an IC chat, we can just legitimately chat as two players who have had very different stories.
Duiran is not one dimensional. Nature is amoral; survival of the fittest, etc do not necessarily care for notions of good or evil. I knew this would be a contentious thing to allow, but I expected people to keep it inside the game and understand things via in character mediums. I told myself I would pull the plug once it was no longer sensible for Duiran's overall narrative, as indicated by majority character opinion, an event with undeniable anti-Duirani themes perpetuated by Bamathis, etc. To my delight, the organization has only flourished further since this policy was instated: we picked up a bunch of people who have joined our community and their characters have adopted Duirani ideals. We saved characters from heading to Shadow out of boredom or upset. I like the minor friction that has developed between Enorian and Duiran. The leaders still cooperate when things need to get done, but I like the separate brand of RP we have from them that might indicate we take different stances or need to come to agreements all over again. That's a roleplay opportunity. A great example is Karhast barging into the council and preaching disgust for the policy, which our Cardinal responded to with great gusto. I don't feel anything 'meta' is being done to defend Bamathis; if you think otherwise, I think it is because of the exact reason we often given those few who voice their concerns - 'you weren't there'. When we tell people 'you weren't there', we are telling them that they decided to go off and do something else aside from Aetolia and, because of that, they need to catch up with modern society and story. I can detail a bit more of that later on in this post.
Truth be told, while I respect the dedication older players put into Duiran, I feel that they came back and expected the council to automatically align with their mindset. They expected automatic respect. My character has no reason or obligation to lend either of these things to any returning Duirani citizen whose first impression was to try and poke holes in a policy that has genuinely worked very well and brought nothing but good fortune. He judges people based on what he sees. What he saw from a certain few people amounts to indignant tantrums. In his eyes, he is dealing with Elders that have forgotten how to earn the respect that they demand; more than that, he is dealing with individuals that have forgotten that Nature is not a static force. It is always growing or evolving. That's a pet peeve that colors his approach to those people and they have nothing to blame except themselves.
Bamathis is in a unique position as being a god born before the very eyes of Aetolians characters. There's not a lot that is difficult or obscure about him. Varian, a god that every character generally lends an implied amount of respect and credence to, stated this new god's purpose. The purpose was clear: to stop the encroaching Albedi menace and secure Varian's Creation of Sapience. As a relatively new character, he has no history we can lean on to say "he bad" or "he good". We can rely on the fact that Severn is part of Bamathis' order as a representative, but what this really speaks to me (and my character) is that Severn goofed and his punishment is to be Bamathis' lackey - something that hampers his scheming and self-indulgent egotism. Though my character has no knowledge of this, I believe Bamathis was willing to kill Severn if the latter failed to contain Czjetija's influence during the Sciomancer Revamp event. This strikes me as putting the character in a further neutral light from the perspective of analyzing his motivations: Severn is a useful tool that is still expendable. Bamathis' purpose trumps his loyalty to 'Shadow'.
In the case of making Bamathis legal, I engaged in a social experiment and assumed the risk while having my character pull for it. Bamathis' discussions with my character were very interesting. They came to find a lot of common ground and Iesid's point blank question was what the Warlord thought of Dendara. It is no secret to any player of a Duirani character that Dendara is like a backbone for Sapience - without one, the other is in a near irreparable state. In Bamathis' words, "without Dendara, Sapience would be essentially unsalvageable."
At the time, we had very few active Spirit gods. We had no militant gods for our more militant or ferocious characters to turn to. Haern's been pretty reclusive since I started playing. Damariel, Slyphe, and Dhar were nowhere to be found. Omei was taking a pretty gnarly vacation from Herself. We had a celani willing to pay a lot of attention to us and our players, something I genuinely appreciate and sought out for the council I, as a player, am responsible for. I took a gamble because it made sense for my character and for the org on an IC and OOC level. My character has motivations for accepting an outright pact with a militant God created to destroy the Albedi menace. He had motivations for trying to convince Duiran this is a fine idea. In the end, he argued it to THREE other council leaders and they accepted it under the condition we write a binding agreement that lays out terms to protect Duiran's primary interest of Dendara. This was not it, either - no, we also had four months of roleplay throughout this discussion between Speakers, where Bamathis, order leaders, council leaders, councilors, and others willingly participated together to create an interesting story.
More than that, my character took an exceptionally long time to decide on his own feelings on the policy. While Skythrone gave him pause, he still saw the mission as necessary and saw it better to be closer to someone like that than further away; case in point: during the infamous Skythrone butchery, Enorian would not have known until it was too late were it not for Iesid having gained the Warlord's trust in a way that let him play witness to Bamathis' warning to the society of Skythrone and the Azure Guard's cultists. There was an almost immediate payoff for him to have been doing what he was doing. It resulted in plenty of Atav lives being saved from Bamathis' butchery and most of them were converted not to Bamathis, but to Dhar and Ethne.
Even further than that, to wash away hesitance, he asked Haern - in front of another Speaker, in fact - if it was alright to give it a spin. Haern's words shaped my character's policy on this storyline: 'so long as it does not harm Dendara, I do not care'. He went so far as to reiterate that to his own congregation later. We got a greenlight from an administrative figure, via a god central to Duiran's roleplay.
There was absolutely nothing 'meta' about this. Perhaps if those naysayers were around on more than just Discord, they would know all of this. They would have been able to voice concerns or objections to their Speakers. Instead, we have resorted to an ugly affair of mudslinging, crying foul, being vicious to one another, and generally alienating one another during an already abysmal point in human history. I pray that we find something new to fixate on by this coming Saturday.
I don't think this topic is about Bamathis or Duiran. Instead, I think this topic is being used to muddy the waters further and cement a narrative that just isn't true. There was roleplay behind this; just because it did not happen in front of you does not mean it did not happen. The path to resolving our conflict of opinion or lack of understanding is more roleplay, not a riot on Discord that is perpetuated in part by non-Duirani bystanders. It's important to remember that Aetolia's environment is inherently reliant on a collaborative effort that responds to everyone's notions or actions, not the fan fiction or 'ideal model' you personally have in mind for what the game's story should be.
On the player level... Sorry, Iesid, but it's not as clean a sweep as you believe. There's been more than a few complaints about your handling of things and your treatment of other players, particularly ones that haven't agreed with you. It's been brought up repeatedly that you're unapproachable and dismissive, and it's made people afraid of voicing objections because the result often tends to be to make things so unpleasant until they're made to want to leave. No one speaks up because many players have been conditioned to believe nothing will be done because nothing HAS been done.
You know how people people used to criticize the dur Nayas for being distant and unapproachable? That's kind of how Mulariads are regarded now. Distant, unapproachable, and if you voice dissent, your days are severely numbered. This has been the case multiple times as the experience of various players can attest.
People are frustrated and fed up because we feel our hands our tied, and feel like no one is listening when we ask. And when we do ask, how disheartening is it where you're just given a shrug and told to put up with it? How many people have stopped playing or just gone on to play Shadow side? How many are close to quitting playing now because they feel like they're unable to make a stand? Because honestly, the current environment feels like you're not given the time of day unless you're firmly on the Bama Bandwagon. Appearances matter a lot in a game like this, especially when we can't see the full story or full scope.
Who are you talking about? How do you know this while not being apart of a city? Who are the frustrated people?
The language you used in this post is also exaggerating things and ignoring context by not stating it. If you have examples of being ignored, disregarded, days being numbered, and all the other claims in your post. If this has happened multiple times and players can attest to it, I would like to hear the full story as well.
EDIT: I'm not trying to attack Phoenecia, I'm just curious what she's talking about and want more information.
I don't see a bandwagon. His purpose is pretty straightforward and aligns well with Duiran's goals. It aligns with everyone's goals, none of us wants to see our world die.
EDIT: EDIT:
This is the part I agreed with the most.
Speaking from experience in other IRE games, though, people generally feel that way when their tantrums aren't listened to. Older players shouldn't be bowed to and respected simply because they're an older player. Especially if they haven't had any sort of presence for years. Doubly so if things have changed in that time, and they're incapable of adapting to change.
If you want to leave a faction because you dislike things they did, then leave? You don't have to start berating leaders just because they acted in a way that you personally didn't want them to. Alternatively, contest their position if there's supposedly a lot who don't agree with it as you seem to imply.
I've had characters who have been shunned because they don't fit in with the cliques and enemied to organizations for unicorns reasons that I am pretty sure is because of miscommunication because english is not my first language. I've also seen others be shunned both icly and oocly because of who they are.
And I don't mean this happened way way back. I heard it a couple of weeks ago. I heard someone YESTERDAY being afraid of airing their opinions to the community because they knew people wouldn't listen to them.
So yes, Aetolia is toxic. However, I don't think anything can be done about that. People won't change and can always blame their behaviour, at least icly, on "rp". If there is hard proof of metagaming, that can be reported, but I have a feeling not much will be done because they are "highly respected and loved characters" and we can absolutely not piss them off by putting our foot down and shrubbing them for a few weeks cause all the other "highly respected and loved characters" will be upset about it.
As a small side note, Oonagh, no idea who you used to play, but if you see me around, hit me up for some rp if you want! If I'm not busy, I'm always interested!
You might have noticed I started playing again over the last few months, but truth be told, I've been playing for a while and I think I have a few things to say on this, but before I continue, I should make one simple admission: I've been playing Aetolia again for a few years now. Who it is doesn't matter, but for illustrative purposes, I will go on to point out that I am not really active in any of our OOC communities. The players I speak to OOCly are ones I've known for years and we rarely talk about what is happening ICly.
Across two different characters over recent times, I can happily say that my exposure to OOC has been kept to a minimum. If people ask me to add them to Discord, I'm always happy to chill out, but I can safely say that as far as my Discord contacts goes, it numbers maybe five Aetolians, most of whom don't know who the others are.
Now this being said, despite having no active participation in any of the larger OOC communities, I don't feel like I have had any negative pushback because of it in-game. Admittedly, this could be because of who my character is in some sense, but I will simply remind you that I have two characters, one of which has none of the history that Kylan does.
What I am saying in all of this is that I see positives in this community. As someone who is largely outside of the community OOCly, I don't feel that my opportunities have been limited because of it - on either character. Do I have my suspicions that some OOC stuff goes on? Absolutely, especially where my other character is concerned. I am honestly not sure how to deal with it other than keep playing my guy and what happens happens.
In regards to the admin, I have full confidence in Keroc, Razmael and Tiur. However, I will note some agreement in regards to volunteers going back to previous characters. In my opinion, you can't really go from being one of the men behind the curtain to the other side. While you are ultimately volunteers, you see a lot of priveleged information. Things that are upcoming and see how things are happening often as a third party. I find it hard to reconcile the idea of a volunteer having that sort of knowledge (NDA or not) and going back to a character that was previously very influential and likely still has influence.
As for the wider community.. what can I say? Have fun, but don't forget that we genuinely get new players. I try my best to interact with new characters across the board and try to introduce them to the communities my characters love. I am still sore that I was unable to convince @Martinaux to remain in Enorian! Since I took up being Ambassador for Enorian again, I've had so much fun interacting with new characters - are they alts? Probably a few are, but I don't care who they are, I can just assume that they are here to have fun.
Finally, @Oonagh I remember your previous on a past thread of mine. That message stuck with me and I am sorry you feel in this position. It sounds like you are letting OOC impact your enjoyment of the game and.. I can't say I blame you for that. I would suggest looking to distance yourself from it - I know, they are your friends. Perhaps set some boundaries. You might be happier for it. There is something to be said for blissful ignorance at times.
I do occasionally lurk the forums, but this certainly caught my attention.
See you all soon.
Spying on each other, taking snippets of vents and trying to use them to prove what a bad person another player is. That's petty and cruel. Does nothing to heal and make the game better, and just drives us further apart and makes us more distrustful. You are hurting the game by perpetuating a stereotype that most of the time doesn't even exist. When someone feels victimized there isn't a right or wrong. Feelings aren't right or wrong, they are feelings, opinions, not facts. You don't prove someones feelings wrong. They don't need to prove them right. It's a feeling. All living things have the right to feel however they want. We communicate to reconcile our feelings and get to a point we feel better about ourselves. Help your fellow players feel better. It's said all the time but always seems the first thing forgotten when some event doesn't go our way. Be decent to each other.
If you really find you can't get along with someone. You can't get any positive RP conflicts from their actions, you can't be content with just staying out of it, they just hit all your buttons. Well, that's why we have an ignore feature in the game. Use it. In this current thing with Bamathis it sounds like the majority of Duiran got some really great RP out of it, and it was heavily influenced and progressed logically icly. Some may not like where it went, that it wasn't fun for them, but is that really justification to try and ruin the fun and good RP everyone else was getting out of it? Fight against it icly, and I can guarantee you'll have more fun, even if you don't win, then just trying to handle it oocly, and making yourselves angrier and angrier. If you can't be decent to each other, at least have the decency to ignore them instead of feeding the hate cycle.
Finally, things change day to day in Aetolia. Both players and from an admin stance. Changes will happening. Basing things on a discussion that happened years ago even with admin isn't very feasible. Getting stuck in the past and the way things were is a very real problem that many older players struggle with. Things change, a lot of us don't like it, but they do. Current day aetolia isn't the same as it was years ago, or months, or even weeks ago sometimes. And as people who have led an org can tell you, after it's changed, forcing it to try and go back in time doesn't work. Your orgs flourish the most when you find a new path for them to walk naturally. It stimulates activity and RP, a passing of the guard, a catalyst for players to change their older characters. Anytime you try and force it back, you cause bad feelings lose members. Some changes will be mistakes, and you grow from those. Many are great things. The history helps informs us, but it doesn't justify the present. The past is the past. The present is now. Don't be stubborn about changes and insist they are wrong because it's not how your character was raised and cause of things that happened years ago. They make up your character but they don't define all you can be. If you can't adapt and change and grow, what are you still playing your character for? Take the changes and your characters views and meld them together and come up with something that fits. It will give you RP, and give others around you fun RP, and we are all here for fun. It's a game. Not to be right. This isn't a game you can win or lose. It's to have fun.
There are valid arguments for and against Bamathis. But you can't fault players or characters for being skeptical when they take the past into account. If Bamathis was always intended to be a neutral god that the whole playerbase should be getting behind, merging -just- Severn's order into Bamathis', explicitly listing him as a Shadow god, and making high ranking members of Severn's order, as well as Severn himself, representatives was probably not the best way to do it. And then there is the lack of buy in on Spirit side due to the fact that Spirit's gods are absent at worst or unwilling to publicly state the direction they want their orgs to go in.
If this is the new direction for Aetolia, that's all fine and good, but it needs substantial backing from admin both oocly and icly in the form of active godshells reinforcing the direction it needs to go. Right now? It's a bit of a freaking mess, quite similar to the mess that was Slyphe having mixed tether order members. And there are still people who are mad about how that was resolved.
Edit: I'm just going to add that I don't have a horse in the game re. right or wrong behavior on the part of players. I'm largely trying to stay out of that. I view this whole situation with Bamathis and worship of Albedi gods as the responsibility of the admin team. The players can only work with and react to what they are given.
Edit 2: I also want to say, regarding any accusations of metagaming, please -please- remember that just because you haven't seen the roleplay doesn't mean that it hasn't or isn't happening. I don't think people going out of their way oocly to stomp on other is something that happens nearly as often as we might think.
That just really seems like a Good and Light kind of problem, to me. Because the Dark and Evil just burn the village down and call it a day. Or grapple with the price of the Power they sought and turn Good.
Experience Gained: 47720 (Special) [total: 2933660]
Needed for LVL: 122.00775356245