The Reality of it all...

Karhast

Not to be a dick, but that's just a cop out and flat out false. A whole shadow guild recently got deleted from existence for the choices they made. If that's not punishment, what is?

Shadow-sided organisations have gotten the short end of the stick before; this I do not dispute. What irks me is that Spirit can do everything right, every time, and still get whacked for no other reason than there having been no good options.

Flinn

This is...vile.
I don't think I've ever been this entirely ashamed to be part of a community. This is reprehensible behavior. That's really all there is to it. I don't really have any greater thing to offer here. There is no way to justify this to me, or make me less disappointed that this happened. Even more because I was perfectly willing to shake my head and scoff and "It can't be -that- bad." and then here it is. Exactly that bad. That's probably the only reason I'm saying anything. I never admitted that I was skeptical, but I was, and I'm sorry. It's just...sad. I hope we can do better.

Escelika

I apologize.

I didn't help the discussion with my reply to Phoenecia.

We should all just apologize to each other and then figure out how we move forward and not dwell on our mistakes.

I realized that acknowledging the mistakes I've made, even when I didn't believe they were mistakes, to myself really sucks. No matter how small my mistakes are I feel there's no going back from them because others will remember. And realizing it's not even about being wrong, it's about acknowledging another set of values that makes my actions a mistake. "Mistake" is probably the wrong word but the idea is conveyed, I hope. The only way I've been able to cope with this is to remind myself that the past can't be changed but I can do things to change myself and not repeat it. I'm trying.

Borminchia

Can I just say watching two groups of oldbies/elites/cliques throw the same criticisms at each other is way more entertaining than it should be?

I was pretty ready to finish my popcorn and head out but something hit me the wrong way so I will also scream into the abyss.

To preface, I'd like to say I know Sibatti's player very, very well, and she even tuned me in to what was going on on her end. Interaction with Lin/Anfini is limited, but IC at least has been mostly neutral and a bit contentious. As for Oonagh, I definitely feel sympathetic especially since I am quite literally doing the 'play a new character for lowered assumptions/expectations' thing.

That sympathy went out the window when the decision was made to go after someone for taking their hobby more seriously than their job, especially when there seems to be some negative connotations into working at a gas station. I mean who knows, maybe Linfini gets employee of the month every month? Work hard play hard right? Putting people down for having "shit" jobs is probably not the best thing to do for the next few months anyway.

And honestly, those messages gave me flashbacks to that mediocre Stanford Prison Experiment movie (which I guess is a little on the nose). Yes you can acknowledge your character would act a certain way. But doing so as gleefully as Fezzix et al did, and fully acknowledging how it would punish players they seem to disagree with, is pretty.. gross.

Could my character eat some other player's character's baby? Sure, she's not a fan of the cycle or anything living. Would I probably be saying 'ok this is a little fucked up' as I did it? Yeah I hope so.

I have no idea what dur Nayas has done in the past. But as I sit in my grandparent's home in southern Italy I can tell you that holding onto grudges and vendettas is a good way to get rid of all of the villagers in this little village we call Aetolia (yes I watched the Godfather recently).

Some other notes that I feel might be relevant: I realized around the time Arion allowed Infernals into his order cause they could be 'honorable', that this sort of "neutral" RP generally sucks. It has been pushed various times in different ways and quite frankly, unless we can get rid of tethers and other mechanics to help make the lines in the game more blurred, then these sort of issues will pretty much always occur.

In fact, around 12-15 years ago when I did try to be a little RPer, I became pretty disillusioned when I realized how some people play Aetolia. The vampire goes out on their night hunt, RPing the big, bad, scary vamp. The noble Enorianite goes out and slays the vampire. The vampire.. continues to RP being big and bad without really acknowledging what happened.

They don't shake their first and say "I'll get you next time". They just assume they can continue being big and bad. There's no accepting that they lost (we're playing a video game, who wants to lose?), there's no rueing the day and acknowledging defeat by your nemesis, there's no character development that acknowledges that maybe your big, bad vampire character is a wuss (which to be fair, learning PvP and coding to be big and bad kind of sucks anyway). People don't want to play THE game, they want to play THEIR game. And the fact that our money gets involved makes it much worse.

And my last point, which is mostly in jest, is that I find it nuts that Duiran is willing to take in SevernBamathis. I don't know the RP that happened, the story line that's taking place, or really anything at all. But to assume that Bamathis is totally on your team because he said Dendara is cool once, and assuming the guy who can manipulate reality is totally under Bamathis' control? From an RP perspective, I hope the Duiranites that support Bamathis are playing naive, gullible characters. Cause yikes.

Ehtias

Why can Severn have a weebsword and the rest of us cannot?

Fezzix

If you look at the screenshots, you'll notice that the dates are several real life weeks apart.

Yeah, I'm "gleeful" when I talk about the possibilities of how Fezzix could respond to things in game. Putting the screws to people, sending assassins, and breaking into houses are fun ways for me to spark some conflict. @Borminchia, you said yourself that nobody likes to lose, and people don't like to acknowledge when they've been beaten. I do the things I've listed above, and of course it makes people angry. That won't stop me from doing it though, because shrines and foci get old after a while. It makes for a good, entertaining source of conflict, and I think it's fun. Also, note how all of this was in April.

It's been close to a month since I said those things, and nothing has happened in game because I haven't had the IC motivation to make it happen. As much as I think some players might be punks, I haven't had those opinions translate to the game.

The screenshots talking about becoming a rules lawyer and taking harsh in game action came yesterday after I found out that a friend of mine was called a white supremacist. That is a line you do not cross. I'm angry, and justifiably so.

Haven

Borminchia said:

In fact, around 12-15 years ago when I did try to be a little RPer, I became pretty disillusioned when I realized how people play Aetolia.

I just wanted to chime in and say not everyone plays Aetolia that way. If you're interested and have the time, give RP another shot. You gotta navigate a little bit to find your audience but once you do, Aetolia can really shine.

And just as a bit of a reminder to the community, despite all the ugliness that's been revealed recently, Aetolia/IRE's community is not a special or unique case on the internet. Conflict in your own backyard will always appear worse because of the higher probability of it affecting your own interests but it's not really any different any where else.

Borminchia

Eye for an eye my dude.

I honestly completely glazed over the issue/rules lawyer talk. I've heard (read) it 1000 times.

The disposition you have towards Linfini shown in the first message, and how that seemed to reinforce your potential interaction with Sibatti, is where some of the bad stuff happened. I actually 100% trust that IF you and Sibatti had IC interaction, there would have been a decent chance at interesting RP, good conversation, and maybe even sorting things out. But because we all seem to like this game so much, we end up chatting with our friends outside of it, which is likely to effect you and your character's mindsets.

As for the 'create conflict' talk, I am pretty sure Benedicto used the exact same reasoning when he and the Templar crusaded (hey look more white supremacy talk) Iosyne's shrines a few months ago. I will use the same argument against you that I would against him: As leaders in the game, your focus should be on creating conflict that you think most people can enjoy (can't satisfy everyone), including those that the conflict is aimed at. Not something that only you will find fun to do.

I believe Bene failed to do that by shrugging his shoulders and rolling over when the Templar picked Iosyne, instead of calling them all dishonorable cowards and stating that he would go after Bamathis' shrines alone if they all wanted to do Iosyne. I suppose you can decide if you've failed your leadership role by taking the route you have. And maybe Sibatti can ask herself about her role as well.

Edit: let me also just say that I have almost definitely spoken a lot of those words in those screenshots myself, since I am also a human being.

Razmael

This thread has had enough time to allow for opinions to be shared. It has run its course and we have decided to close it. I think everyone needs to reflect on how they're treating one another. We're a small community, and this type of toxic behaviour has very large ripples.