The Dominion, a not very sanguine experience

Tirria

I do agree there are issues, thats my whole point. I just believe the scope of those issues is a wider range that stretches across. I'm basing that on the log of the Tiur conversation where the OOC level of vitriol was on full display. yes it was a while ago but I don't like to underestimate the power of peoples ability to hold grudges.

yes there are issues, and my hope is that they are being addressed. but I've largely pulled back . I'm posting because I believe the scope of the conversation is being restricted.

@nhahlar sorry if I pointed to you for saying alt army, it's late and I believe it was mentioned at some point

Asaraii

I'm the one that said ALT ARMY. The only one that said ALT ARMY!!!!!!!

All the ALTS that logged on to not have any idea what was happening but jump on to talk crap to Asaraii over the course of several days over GT over things they should really know nothing about.

Said what I said. Please stop blaming other people for things I said and come at me for them.

Tirria

I'm not privy to every conversation or message, I can only base opinions on what I've seen. my trust level for people in general is quite low.

I will say that if true, it should be looked at with a side eye.

Tirria

@Asaraii I did say sorry.. not sure how to respond to something I already admitted to being wrong about.

Nipsy

Damonicus said:

I offer up two ideas, perhaps that can help.

One: A town hall with the Dominion and Ict. This way some rules and ideas can be tossed around. Lay some groundwork for the Dominion as a whole to move on from this.

Second: An IG town hall meeting for the Dominion members. Someone kill a Teradrim and only that person holding the head can speak, Pass it around. Say your grievances, changes, ect. Leave it in the confines of the Castle and work together. Let everyone have a chance to speak no matter what they say, no disfavors, no tossing. no creddies.

I volunteer as tribute!

Tirria

@nipsy yeah I actually think that would be productive (not sure about the teradrim sacrifice but sounds fun.)

Legyn

Elene said:

Urgh. I only have one comment to make.

The dominion does have an issue, being told by the Admin to "fix it" then getting little to no direction on how. abhorash char logged in refuses to respond to questions IC or OOC. the admin not just coming out and saying what they want.

Bloodloch is the same. I got no direction on how. I had to write things and sell the idea. Then Abhorash was on board with it. He won't dictate what you should do, and he will piss on your cornflakes if it's not worthwhile. It's the character.

It's not just Abhorash as a character. All my OrgReq-related interactions with Ictinus have been like that (without the pissing on my cornflakes, obviously). I pitch an OrgReq, explain why I think it's helpful, and get feedback. The only negative response I've had so far boiled down to "not awesome enough". I assume I'd also get a rejection if I requested something that didn't fit the Archivists' roleplay, but if the guild leadership has a clear direction in mind and it fits the guild's role, that shouldn't be an issue. The admin should vet requests, but it's better for everyone involved if the requests come from the players.

Xavin

Kurak said:

Depending on the election timing, it is very easy to accrue one vote weight during the course of an already started election. With the sheer amount of "ancient" vampire that logged in for the election even with a single vote weight, it would not be hard to sway an election, that is just math!

Maybe I'm mistaken but I was under the impression that unless you had vote weight at the start of an election you wouldn't be able to vote at all, though it isn't -too- difficult to get a vote weight up.

naadu

I wanted to apologize off the start of this, because this is my experience and how I perceived these events,I am not omnipotent so I am sure I do not know the whole story.

When I joined Aetolia (twoish months ago) I ended up in the Dominion because I thought the history of the guild sounded really interesting (and it’s vampires, I wanted to be a super edgy vampire okay?)
Someone mentioned the recent bloodhunt so I thought I would share my experience with that.
When I joined the guild I was greeted by a few people, but received only one tell from Callidora from the time I passed my novicehood test until the day of the bloodhunt. The tell was to congratulate me on passing my requirements and welcoming me to the Dominion.
I had actually never seen Callidora online much up until the events that lead to the Battlefield events, etc. I had told a friend of mine that I assumed she was on a different time schedule than me.
There was SO MANY people around during the events around the Battlefield event and the contestion that took place, it felt like the guild was over half the city with 15-20 people online at any given time. Some of these people I have not seen online since the contestion and that seems very suspicious to me but I’m new here and I won’t touch on that topic.

– The Bloodhunt –
I was online when the bloodhunt post went up, and I was talking to a friend of mine about ways that I could try to compete in the bloodhunt, with a hope that I could place in the top five. Reading over the rules of the bloodhunt, I decided to add in some newbie bashing areas into my loop, changing it on request from different people when I realized I was killing mobs involved in quests, etc. When the first rankings came out and the NPC that was running it made the comment that I had a ‘significant lead’ I decided that the path I was doing was working and I continued with my loop and left it at that.

I even joined the public web and talked to Dourif a lot and had a really good time with him in the last 24-48 hours of the bloodhunt.
During the bloodhunt, Calidora checked in on me six different times, to “see how I was doing” and after I would reply would not respond much outside of just an okay response that I had responded to her.
It felt very much like I was being AFK checked since I was bashing and around a lot more than normal. (One of them was to ask why I was bashing Bloodlochian guards in the newbie town, which that was fair, oops)
After the bloodhunt was finished the waiting started, I received a tell from Abhorash randomly about three days later telling me that the delay has to do with Callidora making a special request
He disappeared before I could really reply, so I just left it alone. Two more days passed by and I didn’t hear anything.
Finally the guildtells flashed up with Abhorash talking, and it was when the truth of the matter started to hit me and my enjoyment of having won the bloodhunt started to greatly decline.
I will not post the entire guild conversation, I will point out the lines that bothered me the most

This line gave me a sinking feeling when I read it, thinking that the time I had spent was about to be wasted, the time I had not slept to try to succeed going away because Callidora wanted to declare the hunt illegal real life DAYS later.
Callidora later decided to share with everyone in the guild what she had said to Abhorash that caused this response

This little line here, which I felt like it was aimed at my own tactics for having won the competition, removed any joy I had from winning the bloodhunt. At this point I really wish I could just give the powers back.

The guildleader who had congratulated me days ago is now advocating against me because I did not show a ‘true observation of strength’ when I operated within the boundaries of the bloodhunt.

This came across to me that she was wanting to expand the list of winners so that her friends could get access to these bloodstone abilities as well, and ‘the five of you’ were secondary in this now.
I will not get into the legalities of bloodhunts and how they are called, that is not my realm of knowledge and I’ve not been playing the game long enough to understand if it was or was not a valid bloodhunt.

The entire event just left a bad taste in my mouth. After the bloodhunt and everything was finished, I felt that a large number of people in the guild stopped interacting with my character and it has led to the situation now where I am lacking the desire to even speak in guildchat.

I’ll stop there so I do not get into the ‘I’m not in the pretty girl group’ high school banter about this.
I’ve been paused in doing much in advancing in the guild since then because I really don’t know what I want to do with my character at this point

As an outsider looking in, I agree with a lot of what Nhahlar said in the original post, it feels like there is a lot of actions happening OOC within a friend group and they have their own guild and everyone else just kinda exists in that guild. I don’t understand the fascination with flowers, I do not understand why there are occasionally chickens in the guildhall. I was confused when there was drama about flowers being flame sigiled around the city.

I just want to play a spooky vampire, dang it

Sryaen

naadu said:

stuff

Tbh, this sounds to me like Callidora was trying to ask if the Blood Hunt was going to follow similar rules to the Great Hunt, where mobs give points based on difficulty.



I don't know, though. Because again, I'm not privy to Dominion newsboards, guild events, chatter, etc. But if I held a bashing contest for the Templar that had an NPC we'd go to talk to about turning in corpses, getting ranked, I'd sorta want to know if it was 1 point per mob, regardless of the difficulty. And honestly, if someone wants to bash higher areas, that's ultimately on them. 10,000 1 point kills is just as valid as 2,000 5 point kills.

Nhahlar

All of those screengrabs are from well after the hunt ended, when the mechanics were understood.

Rasani

I've got no horse in this race but I really hope that admin look into this. To any older players who are feeling attacked for their rp choices as vampires, I'll say this: Your actions are making new comers feel unwelcome in a game that is already fighting to stay relevant. (We're doing great now, but how many rl friends do you have that play muds?)
As a leader in a guild, your story is about building stories for your guild members. You take that task on when you ask them to make you guildmaster. It's no longer about your or your friends or your desire to make a vampire guild into your hang out. Your biggest priority should be the guild members. If you've lost sight of that, it's time to step away.

Kodaza

Rasani said:

Your biggest priority should be the guild members. If you've lost sight of that, it's time to step away.

+1 here. The only position I ever really held in Aetolia was my stint as Chakrasulian order head, and I know I definitely tried to give plenty of notice as I felt I had to step down.

Ideally in Aetolia, I would wish there be absolutely zero shame in simply walking away from a leadership position if it doesn't seem like it's working out for the benefit of everyone. If there's any lesson I think we could have learned from the earlier Teradrim thread, it's that one.

Vorlus

naadu said:

This came across to me that she was wanting to expand the list of winners so that her friends could get access to these bloodstone abilities as well, and ‘the five of you’ were secondary in this now.
I will not get into the legalities of bloodhunts and how they are called, that is not my realm of knowledge and I’ve not been playing the game long enough to understand if it was or was not a valid bloodhunt.

I know I said I wouldn't comment but I felt I had to reply.

Regardless of the rest of the thread this assumption is not true. I personally had advocated to Callidora for the rest of the guild to get -some- kind of reward because I had seen many of the new and less powerful vampires joining in and hunting.

I wanted activity and effort to be rewarded. So if the timing and/or intent of this action felt bad I apologize.

This was in no way intended to diminish the effort of yourself the winners (including myself), and the interaction between Callidora and Abhorash was actually due to some interpersonal conflict the two of them had in character, was not intended to deprive you of your well deserved win.

I have been impressed with Naadu's ability and dedication to the contest and in the guild and would like to see it continue. Please reach out to me in game if you wish to discuss anything further.

Iazamat

Vorlus said:

I wanted activity and effort to be rewarded.

There is a reason the GM of a guild has access to credits that they can hand out as rewards.

Nipsy

As a GM who has faced this, I will say outright, you need to consider things and how it effects the health of your organization.
Even recently I push push push on things my character desired to do, from an RP standpoint it makes sense for Nipsy to do a lot of things that are unconventional and sometimes incredibly reckless and stupid. Though considerations came where I had to consider my organization over what "I found fun" because in the end, I am responsible for numerous other players, relationships between organizations, and other outliers that are beyond what I enjoy in the game.

There are two options, options I faced recently as a leader.
1.) Change and take a more passive stance that doesn't involve the entirety of your guild, and delegating and sharing responsibility in a responsible way.
2.) Remove yourself as leader and be humbled, allowing someone else to bring their perspective in.

I opted personally to take the first option, this does not change -who- Nipsy is, but it does change how much of Nipsy's hijinx I impose upon others. You can make adjustments to bring forward change in your organizations without detracting from the organizational goals. Don't exist in a place of comfort, or in a place where you ostracise or outcast others, promote positivity in your organization. Remove the people who detract from that, with IC reasoning, continue to cultivate a good organizational health.

It is a CONSTANT amount of work, and you CANT please everyone, especially your friends....they are not always right.

Illikaal

All I can say as a Guildmaster with no horse in this race is that if people felt they had to go so far as to voice their grievances on the forums, with evidence to corroborate their claims, I'd be trying really hard to either rectify the situation or at least explain my half of whatever 'misconceptions' are happening. Otherwise I'm not a fan of trying to please my friends or whatever group supports me while pretending that what appear to be legitimate grievances don't exist.

There's player agency, and then there's questionable behavior. I also find it somewhat disturbing that the people making the case have provided evidence of their claims while everything said in defensive of it had my raising my eyebrows in disbelief and or silently mouthing a wtf. I also don't think it looks very good that some people just leave reactions in a discussion directly about them and the org they're responsible for when they could be presenting an argument to defend themselves, or in the very least providing some semblance of an explanation that isn't whatever nonsense that has been posted already by clearly out of touch individuals.

Kurak

Xavin said:

Kurak said:

Depending on the election timing, it is very easy to accrue one vote weight during the course of an already started election. With the sheer amount of "ancient" vampire that logged in for the election even with a single vote weight, it would not be hard to sway an election, that is just math!

Maybe I'm mistaken but I was under the impression that unless you had vote weight at the start of an election you wouldn't be able to vote at all, though it isn't -too- difficult to get a vote weight up.

If that is the case then it is a bit of esoteric knowledge not reflected in the helpfile:

Playtime Vote Strength
-----------------------------------------
< 5 hours 0 Vote *
< 12 hours 1 Vote
< 19 hours 2 Votes
< 26 hours 3 Votes
> 26 hours 4 Votes

* You are effectively unable to vote with a 0 vote strength.

Vote weights will also factor in the time you've been a member of an organization for. This will
subtract from the vote weight you get from play time as follows:

< 1 (real) week: -4 to vote weight (effectively 0).
1 - 2 weeks: -3 to vote weight
2 - 3 weeks: -2 to vote weight
3 - 4 weeks: -1 to vote weight
4+ weeks: no effect

If this brings your vote weight to 0 or below, you will be unable to vote or contest.

After an election, there is now a 2 real-life week 'hard' cooldown on contesting that same
position/person. This includes someone keeping their place in that position, or someone taking over
that position. In addition to that, once the 2 week cooldown is over, there's a second 4 real-life
week 'soft' cooldown. The position can be contested during this time, but should the person being
contested remain in the position, a longer 6 week 'hard' cooldown will go in place on them being
uncontestable. Both of the above two rules immediately become void if the person in that position
goes 1 real-life week without logging in.

There is also a cooldown applied to those that contested the position for six real-life weeks,
preventing them from initiating another election for the same position in the same organization.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So while it appears a fresh alt will have no vote weight, a long dormant one could still gather one, in fact it is very easy.

Again, I cannot speak to the internal situation of the guild. I can only see what is presented to the city and through these receipts and other peoples stories. But there was a rather enormous influx of ancient vampires during the election, I will offer sincere apologies if these were not altpires that resurrected to sway to the election.

Zeheia

Not commenting, just a reminder that we are watching and let's try to be as kind to others as we would wish them to be to us. Tempers are getting a bit heated in some responses.

Ictinus

I think this thread has largely served its purpose now of making public some of the issues and grievances with the Dominion that are hard or impossible to grasp from the outside. I'm not going to publicly comment on the specifics of the issue(s) brought up or some of the speculation people have been making, except to say that I've read the thread in detail a couple of times over and I'm aware of the concerns.

However, I do have some broader comments to make:

I made a post to the leaders board some months ago about out of character org management. In that post I made it abundantly clear that running your org through ooc means (whether it be exclusive webs, ooc clans, or private Discords) is not appropriate under any circumstances.

While I am typically against heavy administrative intervention in player run organisations, this is one of the few things that I won't tolerate. Running an org like this is highly detrimental to the game, and I will come down hard on any leader who is doing this if I have evidence of it happening.

Nobody is obliged to go ooc with you, ever, and if you aren't interested in running your organisation in character, then I politely suggest you step aside in favour of someone who is. It is your responsibility as a leader to foster a healthy environment and a welcoming atmosphere, not to establish a fiefdom built on ooc foundations.

This applies to every single organisation in Aetolia and there are several that could do with listening to this advice.

If you're a leader who doesn't know how to move forward with the organisation, you're welcome to reach out to me for some advice or with questions. It is true that I prefer this type of thing to come from the players given that our orgs are player run (especially when it comes to things like orgreqs or specific day to day activities), but I'm happy to offer some advice or commentary when asked.