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Teradrim, A not very Earthen experience
I am one of the recent Aetolia transplants from Achaea. When I joined Aetolia I instantly fell in love with the Teradrim. I love the lore of Azvosh, the Pillars, and the Sorcerer-Kings. We are supposed to be badass earthen warriors safeguarding the Pillars. In many ways the Teradrim are an extension of the Order of Earth. I was hoping the recent addition of the Earthcaller would help reaffirm that role. But this guild has been a constant let down since I joined. We have a leader and leadership that is m.i.a most days(with the exception of Thronekeeper), all guild matters are handled in an ooc discord, all leadership position are filled by people that barely play, this guild and leadership prioritizes ooc friends in leadership and conflict people are actively discouraged from joining.
I wanted to bring some attention to the gross mismanagement and excluding tactics that are happening. From day one when I joined on Gribbit, I was not yet sure I wanted to make Aetolia my permanent home or not, I noticed newcomers in the guild were actively discouraged from participating in guild events with them not being told and only the small ooc friend group that runs the guild being included.
A guild needs all types to function and I truly believe just rp or just commodities is a fine route to take in a guild. But conflict is actively shot down with comparisons being made to that just being more Carnifex mentality. To highlight this fact all other paths of progression are laughably easy with the exception of the combat one that is designed to be an insane time sink with 125 lessers or 25 majors for a guild favor and Sect really not viable as a means of PK progression in the guild.
I have sat and mulled over how to handle these culture problems in my guild. I thought that maybe with consistent rp I could help right the guild. I have no want for a leadership position, this post is coming from a genuine place of frustration with the ooc leadership metagaming in my guild. These problems are mostly ooc in nature and kept purposefully out of ig systems so that this small group that is mostly not active can continue to control the guild. I am hoping that if I shine a light on these OOC issues to a larger audience it will place pressure for positive change within my guild.
I wanted to bring some attention to the gross mismanagement and excluding tactics that are happening. From day one when I joined on Gribbit, I was not yet sure I wanted to make Aetolia my permanent home or not, I noticed newcomers in the guild were actively discouraged from participating in guild events with them not being told and only the small ooc friend group that runs the guild being included.
A guild needs all types to function and I truly believe just rp or just commodities is a fine route to take in a guild. But conflict is actively shot down with comparisons being made to that just being more Carnifex mentality. To highlight this fact all other paths of progression are laughably easy with the exception of the combat one that is designed to be an insane time sink with 125 lessers or 25 majors for a guild favor and Sect really not viable as a means of PK progression in the guild.
I have sat and mulled over how to handle these culture problems in my guild. I thought that maybe with consistent rp I could help right the guild. I have no want for a leadership position, this post is coming from a genuine place of frustration with the ooc leadership metagaming in my guild. These problems are mostly ooc in nature and kept purposefully out of ig systems so that this small group that is mostly not active can continue to control the guild. I am hoping that if I shine a light on these OOC issues to a larger audience it will place pressure for positive change within my guild.
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Comments
It is one of the reasons I ran as Thronekeeper, because I saw a ton of positions that were filled, but rarely the people who filled them. While I get real life happens, I also think that for the health of an organization that these need to be placed in the hands of active players. Whenever I bring anything to anyones attention, I am generally met with OOC messages, or invitations to an OOC discord, which in all truths is as dead as the guilds leadership. The reason I ran for thronekeeper, was purely to show that as a whole representing the Teradrim to the CIty is something I had in my power to do, because I was not limited to an election intra guild. That being said there has been very little guild activity otherwise, save for a slew of novices I try to give my attention to when able to, and disciplinary matters which have led to one character creating three separate carbon copies of themselves. I digress however.
I respect Fyrren and Macavity who try to do things, but they are about so infrequently, despite being a wealth of resources, its difficult that these are able to be shared in such a limited capacity. I have brought some of these to @Fyrren at times, and he generally has reasonable response, but then he will say things like, they are my friends I have to wait RL days to communicate and replace them for when they login again after 9 days not logging in and the one day they log in is for 15 minutes, which is disheartening to me s a player.
There is so much untapped potential with the guild, but in reality if anyone aside from the circle of friends who runs it was to contest and try to make things work, people would come out of the woodwork to make it not change. It is one thing to disappoint your friends, but another to disappoint the culture of your guilds place in the community.
Also there are two of the "leaders" which have an inherent dislike for the Carnifex, that I hear what you say about them comparing combatants to being carnifex, or saying so much as "you cant change our guild to be warlike" - By no means is that the intention, as Kurak stated above, there is so much lore and available diversity in the Teradrim, that to shift to a militant guild would be a disservice, but you need to let go bad feelings and present some of that lore, instead of sit in a corner and gripe about having combatants in your guild.
Regarding progression: I understand this and actually had to ISSUE myself, because I was not going to be permitted to GR2 without completing 50 Sect Battles, that was the task given to me, and I had to be like, "This isn't right" since I know as a former player, restricting class to people is a big no no, but having been one of the guild leaders in Achaea, you also have to have engaging content, but like, I literally never actually had to do anything or had any hard expectations, interviews, or the like. I became thronekeeper and instigated a war, now I am GR3 having never actually had to demonstrate learning about the Teradrim. (I did on my own mind you, but I never actually did anything IC through the guild)
If the same meta-clique is continuing to hinder the current GM's progress or ability to do anything, it's beyond time for the org to be dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up, with more consistent RP roots and a far more friendly and IC group of players picked by the administration to carry the org on their shoulders for the first year. And I only say this because there's only so much players who aren't part of the meta-clique can do and there's only so much that can be expected of them - at some point, administration have to demand the org course correct.
Edit:
Sounds like some of the Teradrim need to learn their own lore, as the Earthen have literal warbands and the Teradrim are considered kin to them, not to mention Ivoln's and the Earthcaller's recent push of "May we never know peace."
I live in GMT+2 and it is extremely difficult for me to be around during Howling (prime time hours in general) as Howling is at 2am my own time and combined with the holidays, it has been very difficult for me to have any time to log in and I have tried to express this to people when possible so that they can understand this.
As far as leadership goes, I have not appointed anyone to any positions recently save for @Nipsy since I have heard anyone else show interest in a position. If players are unable to log in due to RL responsibilities, I can not pressure them into coming around when they have work that needs done. One other issue we have currently is simply a lack of people available or interested in filling the various roles, or if there are people interested, I have not heard from them.
There is definitely a strong paranoia amongst some of the players about this 'Carnifex Conspiracy' and I admit that I did get into this until very recently where I was able to voice my own understanding of the situation on the forums and I was able to get a far clearer understanding of things from the other side and have moved on since then and get along quite fine with most people now. This does not mean that I speak for these other players/characters as I have my own personal opinion on the situation now in light of many conversations over many months and ultimately it feels like it is a grudge between select players from each guild that has unfortunately affected other players' experiences. I had no idea that there even was this thing going on until I started playing again around a year ago and then I only had the information from the perspective of the characters of the Teradrim guild.
Regarding the Teradrim Discord:
I had been invited into this Discord around the time Damonicus had taken the position of Imperator in the guild and we used it mostly to discuss ideas for Org Reqs, and discussion on how to revise the entirety of the GHELP system (which is still very outdated but is coming along slowly), and just so we could be up to date on RL situations that might occur. This was before Ictinus had taken over and far before Earthcaller came out. I did not create it myself but as far as I know, it was never intended or in my own view used to "run the guild" and I can only give my own word that I try to run as much as I can through IC channels as is possible unless there are issues that bleed over into OOC conversation.
On the subject of Lore and direction of the guild:
Anyone who know me at all knows what my deal is. Lore, RP, and crafting. And that's about it. I've been playing almost exclusively the same character whenever I play and Fyrren has been in the Teradrim guild since not too long after I created the character. I love the lore and I personally am pushing for a very Earthen and Warband themed direction for things.
The lore that recently came to light has, in my opinion, allows for players to play realistically what every style they would like to play.
Be it bashing, PK, crafting, RP, lore, politics, etc. There are so many possibilities and I would like to make it clear that players should be allowed focus on their own interests. It takes all kinds to make up an organization.
The environment I am personally trying to promote is to allow everyone to be whatever they really want to be within the bounds of what the lore accepts (must be undead/vamp, and all that) but otherwise I do not try to push my own vision of the Teradrim down people's throats but rather want to help them find their character through enabling their own interests so long as they do not cause issues with other people playing their own characters.
Right now most complaints I hear are Crafters/RPer characters/players vs PK focused characters/players and vice versa. It has mostly been the issue of PKers being frustrated with not enough engagement in PK stuff and the RPer/crafters worrying about being pushed to do PK which they are not interested in for various reasons. Aside from group PK, I do not do PK at all since my system is not the most up to date nor the most comprehensive and I do not have -any- coding experience so I focus on what I am interested instead. And everyone should be able to just focus on what they enjoy about they game while enjoying the themes and lore of their guild and the stories we can be a part of together.
I will once again apologize for my own failings in the position but I have expressed it before that I am still very new to any leadership position in my entire time playing the game and there are definitely others out there who are better suited to run guilds and have far more experience than I but currently, we do not have many of them active in the guild and I have not been contested or approached by any other player interested in the position. Since taking the position, it has been an experience with a very deep learning curve and I am mostly relying on the advice and experience of players who have ran the guild if not other guilds before in order to understand how to do things better.
Avatar of Fyrren drawn by the amazing Sessizlik.
I have seen leadership be venomous to people that actively embrace PK. And I have seen very unTeradrim rp shown in guild channels against people that embrace conflict. And angry pushback when that behavior was corrected. Teradrim rp goes beyonds just simply being a vampire or undead. And the guildmasters job in may respects is to steer the ship and keep us on message.
“Established in the year 164 MA, the Teradrim warband are a group who pursued power through the domination of the Earth. “
That quote is from the help Teradrim, our guild is the warband. While that does not mean we all need to PK. It does mean that Teradrim rp comes with a certain amount of conflict style rp baked in and it should be accepted.
There is a large amount of ooc leadership handling in the Teradrim. Saying that it is not that case does not make it less true. And numerous people can correlate that it is the case. And has been an overarching theme with the current leadership.
In this discussion it was then followed up with some remarks about us "Turning us into the Carnifex."
By no means was anything stated which prompted this statement nor was anyone saying anything about her or her work ethic. We merely were having a discussion about strength.
That is where these sort of things stem from @Fyrren, and it puts a bad taste in new players mouths. When it comes to intra-guild stuff, as I told both you and Macavity before, I will keep that IC, I didn't feel in a good place in an OOC discord, and am truly trying to look at the health and well being of things. I am, and continue to be impressed with the interactions with both Fyrren and Macavity.
The others, while nice and social, not seeing as much help or leadership.
The rest I will discuss IC, and handle IC, but I at least wish you to have some perspective.
Please note all words are my own and only my experience, thus I do not speak for the guild or anyone else, just myself.
1) I want to know at what point did the guild leadership discourage novices from participating in guild events? Gribbit was there during the Earthcaller event, and helped Macavity to round up people for the second event just before Earthcallers was released. Gribbit was even mentioned in an Events post along with Macavity for being present. So you can see how I am a little confused on how someone was discouraged from the event?
2) As for the path systems, yes they need updating and I agree with that, however, that is not my job. I am in charge of the novices to help them graduate through the process to become full guild members. There was an issue the admin brought up to me about the advancement of non novices, but that was quickly corrected, and a post made to have those approach either myself or another. As for the rest of the paths, I cannot speak for them, as I am not in charge of them, nor do I personally have the time. This is why we have multiple people in positions to help carry the weight of the work load.
3) Please remember, this is a game, and some of us cannot no-life this game to your satisfactory levels. We have lives to lead and we log in when time permits. If this is not enough, then by all means RP our removal, or step up on your own to take on a position you feel suited for or want to work on. By NO MEANS, are we paid by the game designers to bring you content, RP, or any interaction what so ever. If you want to interact with my character, then you need to meet me half way through and actually reach out. This is clearly speaking more towards those within the guild. Even just a message to me, and I will hop on when I can next and have interaction with you. But I am not going to hunt you down and some how force RP upon you from me. That is simply not my style, never has, and never will be. I am perfectly fine leaving you to your own, to find your way through the game and develop your character to what you want.
4) when it comes to membership we have like 25 active members, and some of them will be dropping to dormant soon. Simply put, we are a small guild, have been for years. If I am not doing enough in my position within the guild or someone or group of people think I am doing a bad job, then have me replaced. Period. I promise you it wont hurt my feelings at all, and I would still even help out where needed. But to simply throw a post on the forums because you are unhappy with the guild, and not making any real effort to reach out, at least not to me, is a bit of a slap in the face. Its like you are waiting for us to hand to you on a silver platter everything. Sorry it does not work that way.
5) "There is a large amount of ooc leadership handling in the Teradrim. Saying that it is not that case does not make it less true. And numerous people can correlate that it is the case. And has been an overarching theme with the current leadership."
** Please show me and correlate this. I am really interested to know where this is coming from.
6) "I have seen active exclusion on the part of Teradrim leadership. With total lies that exclusion came down from admin and then when I just asked admin and told that was not the case the tune was quickly changed to they just wanted to keep it small."
**Also please expand on this? what are you referring to?
Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
― Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
Avatar of Fyrren drawn by the amazing Sessizlik.
Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
― Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
I have no expectation of being handed roleplay by anyone. Nor do I expect it. And my complaints are not really with Macavity. You have not actively been part of the excluding forces in the guild. And my problem is really not with Nipsy or you. Leadership does come with a certain time commitment to the guild.
I am not speaking of the Earthcaller event. But that event was not run by the Teradrim. Or I have no doubt I would have been excluded. I am talking the summoning event, the one that ended up having more Carnifex than Teradrim(probably because the Carnifex do not exclude people out of guild rp.) But it is actually funny that you bring up the Earthcaller event as an example, because the visions started with Gribbit and none of the active leadership believed him for the first TWO REAL LIFE days. I mean, why would a novice that was actively being excluded from participating have the visions start with him, right?
When a current leader felt the need to speak out against the sheer amount of OOC leading happening there is an issue. As far as receipts, I have none, I refuse to be part of the Teradrim discord because of all the ooc issues. And I have never been part of the leadership section in it. But I see enough of silent coordination amongst the leadership and enough in my limited time in the discord to know it is true.
Avatar of Fyrren drawn by the amazing Sessizlik.
Ultimately as the Manager(in this case Guildleader) you hold the responsibility for those who are your staff.
As for a novice hearing voices, or any young person hearing voices, this would be questioned by anyone regardless. And even so, this was an RP way for you to expand and RP with us.
As for the discord and proof, what you are saying is you have none, but simply stating you "in my limited time in the discord to know it is true." is simply not enough.
Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
― Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
I'm ultimately extremely uncomfortable with the flow of this thread. Trying to explain away every single thing as someone else's fault when they're bringing what appears to be genuine grievances up in good faith as a "well that was an opportunity for YOU to RP with US more, so really that's YOUR fault" thing is just...man I dunno. Seems really dismissive and unhelpful.
Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
― Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
In any case, I don't think anybody accused you of metagaming, nor did anybody suggest that the accusation be taken lightly. In fact, I even think I said the opposite of what you're saying when I said "This doesn't mean that all accusations of metagaming should always be taken at face value, by any means." None of that really discounts Kurak's issues that he's brought up.
I just think that there's a group of folks who are uncomfortable with change, and would genuinely not push things too hard when things get stirred up or change needs to happen.
In discussing IC, there's things that can be done, there are idealisms and modifications which can be made.
In the end, everyone wants to see the best out of their organization, see it flourish.
Sometimes you have to just let things be mixed up, restructured, pushed around.....even if it makes friends and relationships kinda weird.
The Teradrim have an amazing amount of lore, history, and from what I can see a very rich future.
Its been some of the coolest lore I have had the opportunity of being involved in.
Fyrren is a nice person, perhaps too nice, I love that about him though, he's got a good heart, and loves lore.
We will see what happens IC, for what it is worth, regardless of what happens, I don't think anyone is going anywhere, and I am hopeful we can do cool things together.
I have no ill intent to any of the current leadership. And I certainly do not want to get anyone shrubbed or banned nor do I think this post will. I just want to get the guild back on message. And I am hoping that initial hurt feelings aside this will have stirred things up enough to get the changes that are needed to get this guild functional and back on track.
Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
― Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
Approving of conflict does not automatically obligate you to participate.
There's a difference between 'conflict approval' and whatever 'turning us into the Carnifex' implies. Worlds of difference. You can roleplay a member of a warrior society without being a genius or active combatant. It is largely about the performative aspects of the guild (knights have peerage, syssin have spy RP, priest guilds often talk about the gods/light/fire/whatever, etc - what is 'performing the role of Teradrim'?), the way they achieve their goals, what goals they actually have, etc. There is a rich depth to the idea of 'warband' that goes far beyond 'ppl that pk'.
We have plenty of Shamans that are noncoms. Not a single one of them would drop out of the militia or abandon Dendara (or a war surrounding it etc.) because they are noncoms and or afraid to die. It's really sad and frankly embarrassing to see. I'm of the opinion Ivoln just needs to come in and clean house this point or the Guild will continue to suffer from lack of any real leadership or concerns for their values.
Edit: To clarify, I'm not saying that everyone should have to participate in every single source of conflict, because they shouldn't have to if they don't want to. What i'm referring to in this particular case is having no real IG reason to NOT want to defend something that is supposed to be extremely important to your guild culture aside from "I just don't want to" or "I'm afraid of dying" especially when you're guild leadership is past baffling.
it makes me laugh super hard that there are people who equate wanting to PK or being conflict-oriented with "being like the Carnifex." the fact of the matter is that we have a sizable plurality of non-coms and people who only occasionally show up for group fights. hell, i barely PK these days. nobody has to fight.
i wanna point out that we're a pretty big guild, and in my opinion, it's because we don't force anyone to participate in parts of the game that aren't of interest to them. the only thing we enforce is our ethos and lore, which includes a certain amount of military-like discipline (although even this is pretty loose outside of particular guild events). i can't take credit for our size and attitude, as it was really Mjoll's doing over the course of her time as Commander, but i'm quite happy to see it continue.
so like, anyways, uh, there are far worse things that could happen to a guild than becoming "like the Carnifex." maybe give it a try?
(Web): Abhorash says, "Nerds."
(Web): Abhorash has left your web.
Alela's Affirmations
I see the Carnifex as more army style (discipline), the Teradrim as more tribal and religious (blood to feed the Earth), and the dominion as, well, vampires - made to kill to preserve their very existence. There are distinct cultures apart from just "does pk." And each guild has room for both pk and other rp. Without both, they kind of fail to live up to what they're supposed to be.