Why is handling the Bloodloch Situation going to take months?

Tetchta

I was given permission to make another thread from a Celani after the last one (in my opinion) was prematurely shut down for reasons that I still don't fully understand. The response really raised more questions than it answered:

Why is deliberating on the Bloodloch Government Situation going to take so long?
The first solution, the one that was dictated to us from on high, didn't appear to take very long to formulate, so I'm not sure why it's going to take literal months to process the situation anew. What's the complicating factor keeping the paid staff from putting aside one day to handle it? Is it really that much more complicated than it appears from the outside?

I get that IRE has the brand of being the Scrappy Team with No Resources Making Due, but arriving at a decision on this and communicating it doesn't seem like something that resource intensive to me. Actually delivering the solution, I buy--but why do we have to wait literal months for an answer on something that, at the end of the day, isn't that complicated?

Tetchta

This is what @Tiur sent to me, maybe it'll make sense to you guys, because it literally doesn't make sense to me. Is this a resource-allocation problem, or is it just being put off because it involves making tough decisions that may upset people?

I'm pretty sure most of us would prefer to be treated with respect and to get closure on this issue than to be deflected over and over and over and over again with form responses.

Tetchta

I guess there's no answer. Sucks. Well, you win, I'm done harping about it. I've officially run out of steam. Least I can do is not pay IRE a dime more until it's fixed, but that's a hollow victory. It sucks feeling like expecting that the producer of this game do what seems to be the bare minimums of his job in a timely manner, or at least explain in detail why it appears as though he can't, is a huge ask, though.

Ayastia

My guess is, like any job, any corporation, there are priority levels and this just isn't the top of the list. Could be wrong though. And his answer seems to me to be saying: No matter what changes he makes, he's going to catch grief, so instead of just making changes, he will take time to consider the impact it will have and do what pleases the most people while causing as little boat rocking as possible. 

Tetchta

That's a reasonable interpretation for deliverables, but it's not a great answer for why it's going to take months to communicate at all about the issue, especially since it's already likely been discussed at length by the pools. I personally understand why deliverables take time, but acknowledging and communicating a plan, even a vague one, is essentially something that anybody should be able to do even if they're running on fumes, especially since they've already deliberated on this issue and communicated a plan previously, albeit it was a plan that wasn't very good.

Also, I dunno where you've been but this boat is already thoroughly rocked and possibly dashed against the rocks. We had an entire OOC meeting over this to discuss inter-player turmoil in Bloodloch, which is what kicked all this off to begin with.

Ayastia

I get what you are saying but you also have to look at the trend. The man has caught so much poop over the years no matter what decision he makes. He's caught a lot from this specific topic for what seems like ages now. And, to be forthright, he just got done catching some from me and other players over the most recent event. The simple fact is they are under no obligation to communicate what goes on behind the scenes to their consumers. Very few companies do. MMOs give patch updates, and they tell their consumers plans for future content only after it's already well on its way to be delivered. Ford isn't telling the average driver what comes next. We have been somewhat spoiled by the fact that IRE tries to be open with us and let us know when our grievances are being handled but, again, that is the exception to the rule. 

Tetchta

Ford literally has concept cars at car shows and entire advertising campaigns to tell us what's coming next, Ayastia. Telling people what their deliverables are is literally baked into the plans of millions of entertainment companies across the globe. And I'd rather this not detail into a conversation about the content delivery schedule of Aetolia over the past year.

In any case, while, yes, you are right, the producer of this game is under no obligation to tell us anything, in cases like these and many others it's really gross to remain silent. He didn't remain silent on the Experimental Changes, and he didn't remain silent on the Bamathis conversation (the latter of which impacted about as many people as the Bloodloch issue).

Dealing with feedback and still doing your job is, like, a PART of why he's paid to do this job.

Ayastia

I agree. It is something he should address. But here is what you are forgetting. Those concept car reveals? Those are on their timeline. They do it when they feel comfortable doing so. Not when the consumer demands it of them. 

Tetchta

That's a very poor analogy--Aetolia isn't a huge AAA MMO, nor is it a multi-billion-dollar Car company that can afford to ignore people. It's a game with ~200 active players, even less of whom that carry the game financially. Aetolia, and IRE, lives and dies based on its communication, processing of feedback, and assessments of player perception.

See again: Bamathis, Experimental Changes, Curse. And that's just the stuff that happened while I was here and paying attention.

The silence on this issue, one that impacts ~50 players of that 200, is really grim.

Ayastia

It impacts roughly 50 players. From my count, there are roughly five or six making a huge deal of it. Again, no matter what way he goes, he will catch flak. They told you it was put to a vote. Your argument was it wasn't a big enough majority so the vote shouldn't matter, if I recall the log correctly. That isn't how votes work. Not in IRE. A simple majority is what it's based off of. Literally no matter what is decided, he cannot win. Either the dominion will complain about favorites, or the others will. Do I agree with the concept that the dominion should have an automatic seat? No. Is the roleplay excuse flawed? Yes. Is it worth getting this worked up over? Hell no. I've heard a lot of people complain about a lack of story driven rp these days. Hell I am one of them. But we know the aetolian pools is not that expansive. And every day they are having to deal bill crap issues. Complaints of perceived sleights. In this case one actually had to step in and mediate. This is a minor problem they can put on the back burner for something that, let's be honest, about 15-20 people are truly effected by. If that many. I'd rather see a focus on something that progresses the game. I get your frustration, I do. I'm not trying to downplay it. We have all had issues with the game that has raised our blood pressure. Anyways, I'm rambling, unable to stick to a single point. Just try and give them a break. Remember, they are human too. They get stressed as well. Get overwhelmed. And the excuse that 'it's their job' is spoiled bull crap.

Tetchta

Ayastia said:

I get your frustration, I do. I'm not trying to downplay it.

Yes, you are.

Ayastia

Again, we come back to perceived sleights. But that's your decision. I'm gonna end here. Just gonna leave you with some advice you left us before quitting a shared discord channel: it's a game. Quit taking it so personally. 

Tetchta

Ayastia said:

Again, we come back to perceived sleights. But that's your decision. I'm gonna end here. Just gonna leave you with some advice you left us before quitting a shared discord channel: it's a game. Quit taking it so personally.

I don't believe you sleighted me, but this is nothing but a huge attempt to downplay the issue, whether you're aware of it or not. And I don't think that's exactly what I said, but I do think there's a difference between getting frustrated at the way a human being in charge of a company treats the playerbase and other things that, frankly, I'm not going to bring up here. I'm not roleplaying, here.

About as many people were vocal about the Experimental Changes as have been vocal about the Bloodloch issue--and if we count how many people have been loudly complaining about it for years, the number is much larger than just the 8+ that voiced their support in the thread about it. Some people are shy, some are tired and worn down from years of being stonewalled by the Producer on issues like this. Some are banned from the forums. Just becuase 50 people didn't jump into a forum topic doesn't suddenly make this issue unimportant. How many people emailed about The Curse? How many broke OOC/IC barriers to complain about how it was impacting their friends?

How many people really spoke up about Bamathis in public?

This is literally a classic logical fallacy.

Ayastia

Ok last thing then I'm done. It's no longer about the topic at hand... completely. I'm sorry if you feel I'm trying to downplay your concerns. That is not at all what's going on. I'm trying to get you to look at the issue from another perspective beyond your own. That is not the same thing. It is easy to forget that there are people on the other side of these messages. People with feelings and issues all their own. Now, this is where I get aggressive. They said something will be done about it. It was put to a vote. Your side lost. Even if it was only by two or three votes. But let me ask you something, and be honest with yourself here. If it was reversed, and your side won by two or three votes, would you be arguing that it wasn't enough of a majority? I don't think you would. I think you are upset you didn't get what you wanted so you are continuing to make a fuss about it, and you will continue to do so until you get what you want. Your concerns were heard. They took steps to address your concerns while also taking into account the rest of the player base it will most effect. It's time to get over it. 

Tetchta

Sis I'm not going to argue the merits of the system with you. That's a derail, not what this thread is about, and there's a closed thread over there that has all the arguments to the point of exhaustion that you're free to read. Try and stay on topic.

Amrynn

Tetchta said:

Sis I'm not going to argue the merits of the system with you. That's a derail, not what this thread is about, and there's a closed thread over there that has all the arguments to the point of exhaustion that you're free to read. Try and stay on topic.

Hm, there is relevance though. The vote and response to it would be factors in the decision process for the admin as would things like goals/lore/etc for the city.
With the numbers you've suggested 1/4 of the population being unhappy isn't good, but if it is basically a 51%/49% split rushing runs the risk of potentially just switching to a different quarter being unhappy instead.

To me the next step would be more of a search for a different option. Digging into all those arguments, reaching out to stakeholders that haven't been as vocal so it's not one-sided, etc and figure out something that will try to make as many people as possible happy. Maybe it's changing the political system but adding something else in that wouldn't be as problematic to the other side, maybe it's a different political system, whatever.

But that's something that would take time, it's pretty reasonable to expect that a smaller time-frame is more likely to end up with something that could just cause more issues and would be a waste of time if you need to just need to replace it again later.

Czcienn

Let's be completely honest for a moment. What would happen if Tiur came back with an answer today but it's actually just "sorry, people wanted an answer quickly and we couldn't come up with something that won't just annoy another group of people so we'll just keep it as it is"? Would you accept that and move on?

I don't think you're pestering them for an answer. I think you're pestering them for an answer you want to hear.

Tetchta

Czcibor said:

I don't think you're pestering them for an answer. I think you're pestering them for an answer you want to hear.

what about this reply do you think is helpful?

Tetchta

Some of y'all didn't read what I actually wrote and tbh it shows.

Tetchta

Kelaarian said:

I came to this game to try and enjoy it as a new player, but since coming here I have heard from numerous players about how bad the producer/volunteer team is.

Our community in general has a consistent problem with lumping the volunteer staff in with the paid staff when it comes to criticisms, and it's thoroughly unfair. Our volunteer staff is comprised of some of the most incredibly passionate people from our community, and they're the lifeblood of the game. It literally breaks my heart when I see them put into the line of fire, and it's not always the players' fault when that happens unfortunately.

That said, given some of the responses to this thread, I don't overall find myself overconfident in defending the playerbase either. I've done my best to come forward in as good of faith as possible, honestly, voicing my concerns concisely and as fairly as I can, but some people will read what you do as uncharitably as possible.

In any case, I'm sorry you feel this way, And I hope you give the game another shot at some point. Many of our players are extremely kind and understanding people. Most, even.

Ayastia

Ok now I'm just laughing. Anything disagreeing with you is off topic but a post which is basically just a slam against the development team is 'insightful'. You don't want a discussion. You just want an echo chamber where people agree with you. Got it. 

Tetchta

Some real grim stuff from Aetolians this evening. Really disappointed in a lot of you. I suppose I was wrong, yeah, closing the threads was a good idea. Sorry for doubting you, @Raah.

Raah

Thank you - I genuinely appreciate that.

Alas, however, I think this thread has run its course like the last one. Time to make like Madagascar and shut down everything.

Tiur

I am using my power to post to a closed thread.

Up above was a very incendiary comment from someone purporting to be a new player. They were using a false registration and low hour character, which appeared to be a newbie, but which shared an ip with an ex player with vastly more playtime/experience. So the comment is deleted, not for it being critical, but for it being disingenuous and purposefully inflammatory.