Don't bite me, bro! - Vampire vs Praenomen

Escelika

This post is a bit less coherent than I wanted but I hope it offers some ideas. I'm going to try and restate the problem and someone please correct me if I'm wrong:

The goal is to make VAMPIRE subrace it's own thing with unique elements (sort of like Duamvi).

In doing this, PRAENOMEN will become its own class that can be used by anyone, living/undead, but still shadow-locked. Or lore locked.

The VAMPIRE was supposed to be a permanent, unchangeable choice and the subrace is meant to reflect specific personality changes laid out in the HELP VAMPIRE scroll. Tearing the class from it won't change that, I believe, but it will significantly reduce the reason to become a Vampire outside of Roleplay. All of the class, none of the drawbacks.

A quick idea to make this possible would be to explain that the class requires vampire blood but it’s not enough to make someone a full on Vampire. They’ll be vampyrs or whatever else. Wouldn’t even need to change much for the class.


If you divorce VAMPIRE from PRAENOMEN, you radically change the Dominion guild. It'd be more like Teradrim: a heavy RP guild that grants the Praenomen class to anyone on the tether that wants it but requires special circumstances to be in the guild. It would be an opportunity to finally free Vampires of roles they've been stuck with since the start of the game. Maybe it will encourage people to form clans again and natural communities and groups will grow. The guild can really focus on those who want to be there.

PRAENOMEN divorced from VAMPIRE wouldn’t have to be different if it’s explained that those who are apprenticed are given vampire blood and still need to feed to replenish. I would lock the flavor vampire stuff away for anyone not a vampire subrace (like turning into a wolf or bat) Similar to how each flavor of WERE has unique abilities. Have the sire npc offer the class with a fun ritual of blood offering. This could also make it easier to mirror the class later.

I'm not a fan of homogenizing things but there's some merit to a large group who see this as a problem. There's some merit to giving the tools to the sandbox early and saying go have fun without jumping through early hoops.

The issue of 'I want to play the class, not the subrace' is solved when mirror classes come out. Unless mirrored classes will be tether locked. That's not a right-now fix, but it's something that will happen eventually.

Tetchta

Escelika said:

The issue of 'I want to play the class, not the subrace' is solved when mirror classes come out. Unless mirrored classes will be tether locked. That's not a right-now fix, but it's something that will happen eventually.

Aside from the likely case that Mirror Classes are probably half a decade or more away from being released, I'm not sure why you'd think that mirror classes would solve the problem. From my understanding, Mirror Classes weren't meant to create Neutral Classes That Can Sidehop Without Issue, but rather Mirror Classes are going to make tether-branded classes that more or less match their opposite, currently-exclusive classes. So there's no real faith to be had that a Spirit Praenomen would solve this problem at all, since there'd be little reason to change the current Praenomen class.

Other than that I think your points are pretty on the nose and a decent summary of the issues at hand.

Iadra

I've a few questions.

Vamprie used to be a class entirely in its own right. You were a vampire -class- straight up. What was the reason for splitting vampire into a sub race instead of a class?

Is there a reason why we can't go back to this? Make vampire just a class instead of a race? This sounds like it may fix a number of the issues as it is starting to sound like a lot of the issues are how vampire has been seperated into a sub race but not really because it is still required for this -class- in an odd half way house kind of method.

Teani

@Iadra, multiclass makes that impossible, since if you don't want to play the whole vampire rp part, you'd essentially have to get the cure every time you're done fighting as Praenomen.
The only way to get access to the utility of the Praenomen class is to become sired and turned into a vampire, and due to a lot of reasons (mechanical or rp, large or small negative effects, etc.) some people just don't want to go vampire just to provide a fuller range on the battlefield.

Naos

New suggestion: 

All Players with the Shaman class are now Subraced as trees. You do not get an option, you must be a tree. You don’t eat meat, existing only on a diet of sunlight and water. You no longer have hair, you get leaves. No skin, only bark. 

Or, maybe we should just untangle forced roleplay from competitive PvP classes?

Sibatti

Naos said:

New suggestion: 

All Players with the Shaman class are now Subraced as trees. You do not get an option, you must be a tree. You don’t eat meat, existing only on a diet of sunlight and water. You no longer have hair, you get leaves. No skin, only bark. 

Or, maybe we should just untangle forced roleplay from competitive PvP classes?

OK, OK, I hear you..... but

Jiri

I would like to sign up for the ent subrace.