Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE

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Comments

  • Moirean said:

    If you pay me 200 credits, I will only gun for 2nd.

    Would love to, but I won't be able to fully participate in this one due to being TDY in California. I'll get some bashing in, but not enough to make top 5.


    I have a small stockpile of globes I was planning on selling as the Great Hunt got nearer because... more people want them = higher prices! I was thrilled when it got announced because I had made a last-minute purchase of chests and gotten quite a few of them!

    Now I foresee them being worth less because nobody is going to pay a premium for just experience. I feel obligated to find a way to bash 10 globes this weekend so they don't decay, or sell them for next to nothing.

    Also, I'll still buy your globes as I can bash them relatively quick when I need to, and considering that I am TDY and unable to wholly participate, I think I'll just use this Hunt for the xp gain.
    Alexina said:



    I don't really think it's fair to the rest of the people that're actually going from area to area competing with the rest of the game that a select few can just sit in their Haven and win credits in an event that's meant to be a competition.

    Essentially, if elementals were going to award the same points as before, why not just have a vendor in Delos that could sell you points for gold? It'd be as fair as the globes were in previous Great Hunts.

    EDIT:
    I also really disagree that 'a few people' affected the entire game in a way that is adverse to the majority of the playerbase. On the contrary, I've heard a lot of people being frustrated during Great Hunts when they were trying to keep up with characters that were solely using orbs to progress through the huntranks.

    You're disregarding the fact that certain people (Moirean, Ezalor, yourself) can outbash almost ANYONE/EVERYONE in the 99+ tier. And you can't say that you can't because I have witnessed your bashing speeds either personally or via forums. So while you're saying that its removing the competition, no its not. Its allowing the freeing up of more areas for other people to bash. And if you wanna spend gold for points, then be my guest. Its not like there's a huge use for gold in the game anyway short of buying credits/chests because I highly doubt there will be anything worth spending a large chunk of gold on anytime soon.

    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


    TragerXarianNola
  • I have to disagree Zsadist. Apparently un-kidnapping Ishin is worth 300.000. :D
    imageimage "Little pig, little pig, let me in, let me in. You look tasty and smell like bacon." *LICKLICKLICK*
    Ishin
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander Portland
    edited August 2014
    I bash fast because I have sat and written code to make my stuff better. I bash fast because I've been trolling the market to collect compendium pages and chocolates for ages now. I bash fast because I have sat and made paths to all the areas, learned respawn timers, learned routes through them. I bash fast because I know exactly what skills to use to help me. I bash fast because I have spent years doing bardics and artisanals and building and other things to earn credits to buy artifacts.

    I think it's really kinda lame and an insult to our efforts to just act like we logged in and somehow are magically better at bashing.
    TragerAryanneYarelAarbrokRivasNolaOmeiIshinMephistoles
  • Someone who is good at something...winning a competition? What.

    Arbre-Today at 7:27 PM

    You're a vindictive lil unicorn
    ---------------------------

    Lartus-Today at 7:16 PM

    oh wait, toz is famous

    Karhast-Today at 7:01 PM

    You're a singularity of fucking awfulness Toz
    ---------------------------
    Didi's voice resonates across the land, "Yay tox."
    ---------------------------

    Ictinus11/01/2021

    Block Toz
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    limToday at 10:38 PM


    you disgust me
    ---------------------------
    (Web): Bryn says, "Toz is why we can't have nice things."

    Ishin
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander Portland
    I just wanna call a time-out and do a that's so raven here - event hasn't even started yet and we're already arguing over it.

    Oh Aetolia... :P
  • ArekaAreka Drifting in a sea of wenches' bosoms
    I do like the change to tiers, I think it will even things out more, keep endgame competing within endgame.
    image
    MoireanAarbrokAryanneNola
  • AarbrokAarbrok Breaking things...For Science San Diego, CA
    @Moirean‌ - Preach on!
  • Moirean said:

    I bash fast because I have sat and written code to make my stuff better. I bash fast because I've been trolling the market to collect compendium pages and chocolates for ages now. I bash fast because I have sat and made paths to all the areas, learned respawn timers, learned routes through them. I bash fast because I know exactly what skills to use to help me. I bash fast because I have spent years doing bardics and artisanals and building and other things to earn credits to buy artifacts.

    I think it's really kinda lame and an insult to our efforts to just act like we logged in and somehow are magically better at bashing.

    You entirely misunderstand my post, and thats my fault. I am not insulting your efforts about how you can bash so fast or the time you spent doing such a thing. I am merely pointing out that when it comes to bashing, certain people bash a hell of alot faster than others, which makes it entirely that much harder for anyone else to bash. Because of this it is entirely useful for people to be able to bash with globes with the full 5 points because even if someoen is bashing globes, its easy to pass them. As has been witnessed when you managed to get a 10k lead on me WHILE I was bashing globes.
    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander Portland
    Trust me, that was far from easy.
  • edited August 2014
    Everything gives an unfair advantage in the Hunt... artifacts, chocolates, class. Like, you can pay for a ton of things to improve your chances. Seems funny to draw the line at globes other than the fact that it can be done somewhere that isn't an actual hunting ground.

    I'd personally like to see a lot of consumables that help with hunting up for sale outside of chalices. There might be less complaining if they were more readily accessible. A random chance from chests means that even if people do want them, they can't realistically obtain them. No amount of chest purchases will guarantee any hunting items and you buy credits that in turn need to be sold for gold. Not gold itself.

    Hunting is something that I think needs a deeper thinktank on the side of the admin and players for how it's going to progress in the future. As it stands it's a way to easily grind gold for 1%ers that others have limited access to. The majority of the playerbase is end game, yet there are very few endgame hunting areas and whenever content is added, there is no incentive like gold drops to hunt there. I don't know where @Razmael and @Oleis see hunting going in the future, whether it's a time waster that's fine as is, or whether it's a feature that should be expanded and marketed but personally I think it should be looked into.
  • AlexinaAlexina the Haunted Soul
    edited August 2014
    I personally think there should be fewer areas with great gold drops and not more, unless we see some significant goldsinks added to the game. Otherwise, credit prices will go up and the people that don't spend all day long bashing will have an even harder time progressing with their skills/artifacts/etcetera.

    Competitions in IRE are never balanced for the contenders to have an equal footing (the whole concept of artifacts takes a level playing field out of the equation pretty quickly), but that does not mean that these events should not be balanced to be fair in regards to the basic principles of the event itself; for example, in the Brawl (I think it is the Brawl), grouping up to clear the competition does not work because targetting becomes unreliable with large number of people in the room. In the same vein, prohibiting people from sitting in their Haven racking up points (and enough points to win hundreds of credits, at that) promotes the concept behind the Great Hunt: people compete to see who is the most accomplished hunter, not who happened to buy the most globes.

    That said, I'm all for disabling artifacts/chocolates/grimstims/whathaveyou in Great Hunts. I used to be opposed to it because, well, what's the point of Pay-for-Perks if you can't use them? Anyway, if people feel strongly about this, limit everyones' access to skillsets to weaponry, give them 12/12/12/12 stats, and give access to scalemail armour. I think Moirean and Ezalor would still have decent chances of placing high, but maybe some new names would show up high in the rankings. It'd be interesting to see, for sure.
    image
    AryanneMoirean
  • edited August 2014
    I don't think you should disable artifacts. There needs to be a point in buying that kind of stuff. They're available to everyone and if you feel it's worth the investment, that's your decision. If you don't, make do without it, that's your choice. The only things I feel are kind of unfair are the things that are not available to everyone because then it's not a case of opting out, it's a case of not being given the option.
    Moirean
  • AlexinaAlexina the Haunted Soul
    Oh. I guess I misunderstood the 'seems funny to draw the line at globes' comment, then.
    image
    TragerXenia
  • Alexina said:

    I personally think there should be fewer areas with great gold drops and not more, unless we see some significant goldsinks added to the game. Otherwise, credit prices will go up and the people that don't spend all day long bashing will have an even harder time progressing with their skills/artifacts/etcetera.

    I disagree with you. If you are so worried about other people not being able to buy credits on market because of the credit market prices increasing, then maybe they can implement a max credit sale policy. In that, no credit price may go above... we'll say 6500/7000 gold each. Not only would that give the game potential to increase credit prices, it would also give the players the ability to continue to buy credits at flexible prices without having to worry about never being able to buy them. Imperian would be a great example for why there should be a limit to how expensive the market can be, 11k/credit on average. Thats just ridiculous.
    Alexina said:

    Competitions in IRE are never balanced for the contenders to have an equal footing (the whole concept of artifacts takes a level playing field out of the equation pretty quickly), but that does not mean that these events should not be balanced to be fair in regards to the basic principles of the event itself; for example, in the Brawl (I think it is the Brawl), grouping up to clear the competition does not work because targetting becomes unreliable with large number of people in the room. In the same vein, prohibiting people from sitting in their Haven racking up points (and enough points to win hundreds of credits, at that) promotes the concept behind the Great Hunt: people compete to see who is the most accomplished hunter, not who happened to buy the most globes.

    You want events to be even? Remove artifacts 100% from EVERY event. And thats also an inaccurate statement. Have you not ever been to a lesser fight? You'll have 6v6 and all 6 people will target one person... easily. So yes, you could team up in Brawls to eliminate everyone but the people you want to win. So while you're saying "Oh no, the globes give an unfair advantage to people who pay money." I hate to say it, but thats Aetolia and every other IRE game made. Its all pay to win. All of it. You want to be the best, you better damn well be willing to invest some money into the game. Also, who cares about who's an accomplished hunter. The same people will win it every time anyway until they quit. Why? Because they have the experience behind themselves to know they they need to do and what they need to fix to make themselves faster.
    Alexina said:

    That said, I'm all for disabling artifacts/chocolates/grimstims/whathaveyou in Great Hunts. I used to be opposed to it because, well, what's the point of Pay-for-Perks if you can't use them? Anyway, if people feel strongly about this, limit everyones' access to skillsets to weaponry, give them 12/12/12/12 stats, and give access to scalemail armour. I think Moirean and Ezalor would still have decent chances of placing high, but maybe some new names would show up high in the rankings. It'd be interesting to see, for sure.

    Um... thats exactly what a globe is. Its a Pay-for-Perk. So you're eliminating something you believe in? Even if you included scalemail into everyone's accessibility, it would still be dependent on class on if you can wear it or not. Unless you make scalemail available for EVERY class during the Hunt.



    Overall, globes were a money maker for Aetolia during the Hunt because of the great point values they provided. Now that they have been nerfed, not only have they reduced the in game value of the globes (which affects their sales) but they have also reduced the chance of people getting globes in chests, which reduces the likelihood of people buying credits to sell for chests to get globes (another affect against their sales). So, I think this was a very bad business move on their part to do this as they are affecting their sales from multiple angles.
    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


  • edited August 2014
    I guess so. Just to clarify further, what I was trying to say is that saying globes are an unfair advantage because pay to win is ALMOST like saying hunting boon artifacts are an unfair advantage WITH a couple of exceptions.

    The first being that they're not easily obtainable and second being that you don't need to actually be in a hunting ground to use them, so there is no actual "competition," with other hunters, it's just your own private spot to farm points.
  • edited August 2014
    If globes were easy to just buy from Qeddwyn the only issue I'd see with them is that it defeats the spirit of the whole thing.

    Like you're not actually out and about hunting, everyone roaming and fighting over the same things to kill. Killing areas that aren't usually hunted because of the lack of stuff. All the rest.

    As for you personally Zsadist, you could claim you were sold a fake rolex, in a sense. That's always been an issue with Aetolia though. Like they've refunded deleted artifacts but you may not want anything else with the credits, or they'll nerf a class you went and invested in to the point it's not fun any more. There are always instances of changes screwing someone over for the sake of someone else.
  • AlexinaAlexina the Haunted Soul
    edited August 2014
    I'm not entirely sure how to respond to your post, Zsadist. Maybe I'm just imagining stuff, but when I read your posts they come across as you're pushing for things that benefit you personally rather than the game as whole. More gold in endgame bashing areas? Suddenly, the people that bash the most buy more credits from the market and the rest of the people playing the game does not have more gold. Seems like inflation to me, which is why I'd first want more/better/meaningful goldsinks (ten million gold ships go!).

    I don't really want events to be even. Those comments were aimed at Rowena who said that artifacts/chocolates/class are unfair. It was an exaggerated example to point out that there always is someone else in Aetolia that has more bonuses than yourself (unless you're @Daskalos, of course). Anyway. My whole point was that the Great Hunt is meant to be a competition between bashers to see who has more hunting knowledge and perseverance. You claim that globes are good for the Great Hunt because they generate revenue for Aetolia? Myself and plenty others have expressed a concern that the globes work against the intended spirit of the event, and with this most recent change it seems the administration agrees with the general opinion. I'm sorry, but again, it sounds like you're pushing for something that benefits you personally rather than the game as a whole.

    You seem upset that a few people that're actually good at bashing are placing high in a competition based around bashing? Well, it's the same with the Delos arena events, with the Iron Epicurean (it seems @Eleanor makes delicious foods), with artisanals/bardics, and most other events. That doesn't mean that it's impossible to win, it just means that the odds are stacked against you.

    You say that Ezalor can outbash anyone in the 99+tier, but he has only placed top10 in a Great Hunt once and I doubt he will try for #1 again because the effort/reward isn't all that exceptionall once you're in the top five rankings. Also, I didn't even participate in the last Great Hunt. I won't be participating in this one. Munsia placed second in the first Great Hunt she ever participated in. If anything, I'd like to say that a lot of people have a pretty decent chance of competing for the top spots. The outcome is far from as predetermined as you make it out to be.
    image
    Yarel
  • Munsia is a bad example.

    Last Great Hunt was the first one I ever tried in and I was only around for half of it and made top 10.
    Trager
  • TragerTrager Raiding your underwear drawer.
    ...Because of globes...
    Indoran'i is back baby. It's go-... Oh.


    Rowena
  • I only had like four globes.

    I was in the volcano most of it, I'm tanky enough to handle multiple aggros there and I kill fast.
  • I think disabling artifacts in an event that directly leads to getting more artifacts ( I.e. credits) is different than just disabling artifacts. I have a couple arties, and I can still say I'd be down with that.

    Just because you can't use arties to easily gain yourself more doesn't mean they're not worth having.
  • edited August 2014
    Rashar said:

    I think disabling artifacts in an event that directly leads to getting more artifacts ( I.e. credits) is different than just disabling artifacts. I have a couple arties, and I can still say I'd be down with that.

    Just because you can't use arties to easily gain yourself more doesn't mean they're not worth having.


    The issue I have with that is that it devalues something that's already very expensive.

    Also, some classes like Teradrim and Praenomen without artifacts are FAR better hunters than say... a Mage even with artifacts.

    Disabling artifacts wont suddenly create a level playing field, it will just punish those that financially support IRE.
  • Maybe there is that. I'd argue that if you have credits for massive amounts of arties, you have credits for another class. And, really. A second class is pretty inexpensive if you're an endgamer, and Lycan is very viable for bashing with no class slot or massive lessons. At low levels the difference isn't as profound.

    Also, there is encouraging other people to participate, which is a snowball. I never considered buying arties ( or pking ) until I bought a chest set and got a sweet amulet of protection and a pair of wings. That was the day Aetolia got me, sadly
  • You can't balance the game by turning them off. That was the point.

    Classes have advantages.

    Hunting boons like who has chocolates / pills / blessings give advantages.

    If you take away the benefit of tanking artifacts you'd still get people with friends that are willing to heal or reflect them.

    Artifacts are just part of the game and they're a part that help pay to keep the coder and game master and servers. It's counter productive to penalize people for having them for any reason.

    The only solution that would work is create a mini-game that doesn't use class / artis etc. where everyone is on the exact same level. Depending on what it is, that could just come down to whoever writes the best script or has the least latency.

    TL;DR - The Hunt is what it is, it's fine as it is. The globes were against the spirit of the Hunt which is getting out and finding stuff to kill and competing over hunting spots.

  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Administrator, Immortal
    This isn't an angry modpost "move on" kind of thing. I'm just a human being expressing wonder that you're still finding the willpower to argue about this.

    Globes gave a very large advantage in a competition for which bashing area availability was the largest control. When that was blown open, the spirit of the Great Hunt (beat the other guy to the good XP) was foiled. The last 10 posts are just a smokescreen to mask the frustration that someone's EZ-win button was nerfed. Tail-chasing theorycrafting about 'fairness' is not going to get you anywhere at this point.
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
    XarianArekaMoireanNolaSlypheTragerMephistolesRivas
  • I didn't really see it as an argument. I thought we HAD moved on past the whole "oh no my globes," thing and were just discussing the fairness and nature of the hunt itself.
    Alexina
  • ^

    Though I'm a casual observer at best. I don't really bash, and I don't really care about great hunts. Just sort of giving an objective opinion here.
    RowenaAlexina
  • AlexinaAlexina the Haunted Soul
    edited August 2014
    Oleis said:

    This isn't an angry modpost "move on" kind of thing. I'm just a human being expressing wonder that you're still finding the willpower to argue about this.

    Globes gave a very large advantage in a competition for which bashing area availability was the largest control. When that was blown open, the spirit of the Great Hunt (beat the other guy to the good XP) was foiled. The last 10 posts are just a smokescreen to mask the frustration that someone's EZ-win button was nerfed. Tail-chasing theorycrafting about 'fairness' is not going to get you anywhere at this point.

    The whole fairness argument was just a tangent. I think people focused on it because the only other argument (people will no longer buy chests for globes so revenue will go down) doesn't really have any merit to it. Also, I think people generally want to feel that they get treated fairly in whatever competition they're participating in. IRE muds are a bit blurry in this regard because people essentially pay for advantages, and when all advantages stack on top of each other it is hard to feel like you're competing on equal footing.

    I don't really think it's a discussion that should be casually dismissed because it's relevant to the whole atmosphere of the game.

    Or, EZ-buttons and tail-chasing.

    ^_^
    image
    RowenaRashar
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander Portland
    All this being said, Aetolia could still use another few bashing areas.
    FaerahOleis
  • I don't typically get involved in these discussions because well, it's not my thing, but man. @zsadist, you're complaining about three people out of, uh, how many, who have made efforts to be successful at bashing.

    All of which have been playing, at least three years, some longer. I doubt they were the top bashers that entire time.

    You and I started at roughly the same time and already you have come to be ranked at #1 in experience at some point. I think this, in itself, is quite a fete. Yet you're over reaching and complaining about something that you simply shouldn't be, because at some point you will get the artifacts (from all the gold you make from all the bashing you do day in and day out) to bash as equally fast as the people who've been around for 3 times the amount you have, will.

    TLDR: Chill out man, you've got it good and are on the road to being right there with them on bashing speeds.

    Trager
This discussion has been closed.