Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE

Ilyon

Yup, looks like shield stops it properly on the liaison testing server, but not in-game. Reported - but you really should bug these things instead of hoping someone else will do so

Ashmer

Ilyon said:

Yup, looks like shield stops it properly on the liaison testing server, but not in-game. Reported - but you really should bug these things instead of hoping someone else will do so

@Ilyon you make me look like a foooooool sometimes. Thanks for testing that.

BACK TO RAGING FOLKS

Meyvitch

How did this happen!?

+ Fox of the Rhythm, Meyvitch Qefin-Yaslana ------------------------------+
| Strength : 7(-7) Dexterity : 8(-7) Timeout : 60 minutes |
| Intelligence : 5(-6) Constitution : 6(-7) Statpack : Athletic |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Ashmer

Did you Mutate?

Zsadist

Meyvitch said:

How did this happen!?

+ Fox of the Rhythm, Meyvitch Qefin-Yaslana ------------------------------+
| Strength : 7(-7) Dexterity : 8(-7) Timeout : 60 minutes |
| Intelligence : 5(-6) Constitution : 6(-7) Statpack : Athletic |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Someone REAAAAAAALLY doesn't like you. :P Have you pissed off any admin lately??

Toz

Stats are dropped heavily when you mutate and get mutation sickness. Halved, in fact - which is p much what seems to have happened there.

Rou

I'm gonna go ahead and rage at the new push-button shamans too. I dunno what extreme buffs they got after the changes, but they're clearly where it's at. I couldn't touch @Raeche‌ with a 10 foot pole as Praenomen, granted I have no silver crown or weapon rune, but eq enhancement at least. Do I really need 1600cr worth of artifacts to validate a class?

Serrice

I can't imagine anyone getting anywhere with a 3.72 combo speed, especially when you can only dish out one venom at a time. I would say it's less about what buffs Shamans got and what nerfs Praenomen got.

And you do sort of know what extreme buffs they got. They're all posted in the liaison changes thread.

Ilyon

Shaman anti-affliction effects are indeed very good (probably too good), but that's not a recent change - they have been like that for a long time.

Ashmer

I don't rage so much as scratch my head at the Praenomen offense. I can't imagine ever locking anyone ever currently as the class, with the paresis change. And with equilibrium enhanced I think (please don't quote me on this) you can hit 3.44 per combo, but still only one venom and no way to capitalize on a ton of Mentis afflictions on the target. Seems like mostly you just spray and pray.

Edited to add: This is all theory, though, I don't really have the class and haven't really fought Praenomen much since the liaison load.

Oleis

Ilyon said:

Yup, looks like shield stops it properly on the liaison testing server, but not in-game. Reported - but you really should bug these things instead of hoping someone else will do so

Forgot to say on here that this is fixed now.

Rou

You're right @Ashmer give or take a few hundredths of a second, if not spot on. @Serrice speed is without EQ Enhance. But the offense isn't so much about locking someone as it is damaging them or setting up Annihilate. Still, I never got close to either, and was out dps'ed or afflicted in the two bouts I gave it. Seems pretty absurd for a Praenomen to flake out in less than 20 seconds with Purify and Mend and such. Will chalk it up to "Needs 1600cr worth of artifacts minimum to compete." Thanks for opinions.

Serrice

I know it's without EQ enhance. That's why I said 'I don't know how anyone gets anywhere with a 3.72 combo'. I can see how they'd get somewhere with a 3.44s combo. :P

Seir

Personally, I wouldn't mind giving vampires the ability to afflict at a rate equiv. to other affliction classes at the expense of losing the ability to go through shield/barrier. Having played a vamp, their potential lies with the fact that their afflictions cannot be stopped short of the vampire being hit with paralysis/stupidity or prone/stupidity and how much combined health/mana pressure they can dish to either damage kill or go for an annihilate. I would like to note that truelocking as a Vamp IS possible but highly difficult and it's far more effective to just focus on damage/mana pressure. Unfortunately, I feel that the advantage of going through shield/barrier gives them too much of a leg up in a group setting where multiple vampires just laying down the affliction hinder train (on top of BB doing mana damage with their whispers through shield/barrier) is a bit much.

For some examples: On my alt, if someone barriers against me, I'm not really restricted save not being able to frenzy/slash because my whispers are still hitting them with mental affs like Indifference, Recklessness, Berserking, etc. all of which do contribute much to a group setting. On Seir, if someone on the shadow side barriers, we're generally forced to change target and shielding does a lot to slow down the combined spirit offense. Yes, I'm aware that Luminaries can strip barrier, but the ability to just ignore shield/rebounding/barrier outright is very effective and useful.

tl;dr Having played a Vamp, their affliction potential is largely crap and their offense is mainly reliant on health/mana pressure. Their slow offense is the reason they can ignore shield/barrier, but I feel this gives them a leg up too much in group settings given the popularity of the two vamp classes. Speed up the vamp offense, lose the ability to go through shield/barrier. Health/mana pressure could be adjusted accordingly for the speed change.

Edit: I do realize that such a change would also affect Bloodborn by possibly putting them over the top. I feel like Praenomen, as a class, should focus more on health/mana pressure with minor affliction support (Edit2: Without becoming something like Carnifex because we all know how that turned out. I could try to come up with details) and Bloodborn should be the affliction-based vampire class. It would do wonders in setting the two vamp classes apart thematically in terms of combat.

Haven

Honestly, I think the class needs a close look and possibly a revamp because it seems strange to me that the class needs to leave its guild skills in order to even compete and kill. Weaponry should be a flavor option in my opinion, not a necessity. Maybe it was different when black bile was a thing (I don't remember what it did) but from what I can tell... If you cure properly and can tank their damage, they can't kill you at all unless they're artifacted to the teeth and even then if you can tank then you can laugh at their offense. This might be a touch bias though since I mostly use Syssin and Luminary.

Seir

Haven said:

Honestly, I think the class needs a close look and possibly a revamp because it seems strange to me that the class needs to leave its guild skills in order to even compete and kill. Weaponry should be a flavor option in my opinion, not a necessity.

Maybe it was different when black bile was a thing (I don't remember what it did) but from what I can tell... If you cure properly and can tank their damage, they can't kill you at all unless they're artifacted to the teeth and even then if you can tank then you can laugh at their offense. This might be a touch bias though since I mostly use Syssin and Luminary.

They do not need to leave their guildskills any longer:

Swordplay (Sanguis)                           Known: No
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Usage: SWORDPLAY SELECT <weapon>
       ENVENOM <weapon> WITH <venom>

The ancient art of swordplay was once widely practiced amongst the Consanguine of old, and has begun 
to see a new rise in popularity amongst the Blooded in modern times.

A Praenomen can select a single weapon to master and gain proficiency in, from any weapon of the 
small blades class. This choice is permanent and cannot be changed.

Vampires are kind of in a weird position where they have a lot of good utility, a solid audit, and if you're a Bloodborn, they have a very, very potent offense. Praenomen kind of got the short end of the stick, but it was needed in some regards due to how powerful they were. They pretty much had everything and didn't really sacrifice much in that regard save maybe a sip malus that could be countered by an artifact. A revamp is probably needed, I would agree. Getting the vampires away from having shared abilities will create individuality and originality between the two, giving them their own unique offenses. Vampires just seem to have this thing where their mechanics and changes make them either ridiculously powerful or horrendously crappy.

Edit: Praenomen are still viable, I want to add. They're far better off in PvP compared to some classes.

Sheirosia

Rou said:

You're right @Ashmer give or take a few hundredths of a second, if not spot on. @Serrice speed is without EQ Enhance. But the offense isn't so much about locking someone as it is damaging them or setting up Annihilate. Still, I never got close to either, and was out dps'ed or afflicted in the two bouts I gave it. Seems pretty absurd for a Praenomen to flake out in less than 20 seconds with Purify and Mend and such. Will chalk it up to "Needs 1600cr worth of artifacts minimum to compete." Thanks for opinions.

Honestly, Prae -really- is capable with zero artifacts

Sheirosia

We're only seeing outliers like this because of heavily artifacted people. Nothing new, really.

Rou

Mkay well it wasn't capable at all against Raeche, is all I was saying. I must be missing quite a few things for Shaman. Thanks for the disagrees, unasked and ongoing opinions/comments/nuh-uh's, etc, etc.

We can move on now.

Edit: Not even sure what could be disagreeable with this post... Unless insinuating that we should stay off topic and continue to try and prove others wrong when they rage.

Riluo

Berserk should not have been stripped from Bloodborn. Yet it was. It needs looked at or sunder (frenzy skill) should be looked at for Bloodborn so that the chance of it ticking is increased. Currently 90% of us PKer Bloodborn refuse to fight in our class as we can not over come the turtling. Sure whispers can bypass shield, but really who can not cure two whispers easily whilst hiding behind shield? As it stands you have me at lesser in Bloodborn whilst the rest of the city is flinging cards or using syssin to snipe. Even Ezalor will not roll out Bloodborn anymore as he feels the same about the turtling issue.

Anyway no one has to agree or disagree with me, I just felt the need to vent.

Daskalos

Shrugging. Why does a skill with no cooldown let you -select- which affliction you want to cure and completely bypass built up softlocks?!

Daskalos

Riluo said:

Berserk should not have been stripped from Bloodborn. Yet it was. It needs looked at or sunder (frenzy skill) should be looked at for Bloodborn so that the chance of it ticking is increased. Currently 90% of us PKer Bloodborn refuse to fight in our class as we can not over come the turtling. Sure whispers can bypass shield, but really who can not cure two whispers easily whilst hiding behind shield? As it stands you have me at lesser in Bloodborn whilst the rest of the city is flinging cards or using syssin to snipe. Even Ezalor will not roll out Bloodborn anymore as he feels the same about the turtling issue.

Anyone no one has to agree or disagree with me, I just felt the need to vent.

I would point out that I am not a scrub at combat and @Ashmer completely and utterly destroyed me while in Bloodborn about a week ago. That haemophilia time bomb, man

Seir

Daskalos said:

Shrugging. Why does a skill with no cooldown let you -select- which affliction you want to cure and completely bypass built up softlocks?!

Because it's a far lesser evil than what came before it, as well as his even more evil brother: Immunities.

Aishia

Not to be contentious, but the rage thread is not the place for making unarguable points about combat balance. It's for complaining about things that make you mad. If you just said something to the effect of. "Things about how Bloodborn combat work right now are making me really mad" Fine, no argument. But if you're going to try to push out your own brand of information and opinion, and potentially be WRONG, biased, or not looking at the big picture, you can't at all expect people to just read it and say nothing. Not saying anyone is wrong, just, don't expect things to go unreplied to. If anyone could complain about imaginary issues here without dissent, all sorts of misinformation would spread rampantly. That being said, if you really do want to start up conversations about combat issues, balance, abilities other classes have that FREAK YOU OUT, there are totally threads for that!

Ashmer

Daskalos said:

I would point out that I am not a scrub at combat and @Ashmer completely and utterly destroyed me while in Bloodborn about a week ago. That haemophilia time bomb, man

I'm back in Syssin now, bb. C'mere, I have something I want to show you.

Aarbrok

One bad IC interaction bringing back a bunch of problems that I am ultimately going to avoid like the plague. I don't have the energy to deal with political handjobs and pretending that a make believe text life is super srs. I have way too busy RL things going on to play games.

Yes, I can't fight so call me out on it and make me feel like a dumbass for not being able to code or afford artifacts, because all the liaisons should be required to wear no artifacts when testing things, and see how real players play the game, not those who pay to be the best. Sure you earned them, but you measure your statistics on survivability and aspects of those who do have them. Its an unfair balance

I really do not need responses especially from people who have so aptly chosen to threaten to issue me after challenging a similar opinion before, so save it I am in no mood. Just a general venting.

Also, alts...blatant alts who know things they should not know.
Though you can't prove metagaming so oh well.

I really don't care to play that game again.

You win.

Moirean

A nearly invisible magical shield forms around Kheoss.
******** kheoss Shielded! Hammer it! ***********
******** kheoss Shielded! Hammer it! ***********

[Murdertime!]: Kheoss shielded! (Touch hammer)

You have not gathered a sufficient quantity of souls to perform that feat.

----

Stop your raging. I'm a Carnifex. I win.

Edit: not @aarbrok, meant that for the PK talk.

Zsadist

If we're gonna start pointing out skills to look at, I say Retribution. That skill is just.... well, just super op. Especially in a team fight. 1 round and you die, no questions about it.

Edit: Yes, I know everyone says, "You need to heal this." Well, its not always easy when you have 1 person just spamming retribution ALL THE TIME!! Seriously, this skill needs looked at.

Zsadist

Can someone please tell me the difference between this command:

buy artifact power enemy_expand for amulet lvl 3
There is no more 'artifact' in stock at the moment, please try again later.

And this command:

BUY ARTIFACT POWER enemy_expand FOR amulet LEVEL 3
You have purchased enemy_expand for a Celestine stalwart silver amulet of protection!

I seriously do not see any difference between the two commands. Sadly, it took me about 30 minutes to buy this artifact power from Qeddwyn because of this little 'bug'.

Serrice

Well, Lvl isn't the same as Level.