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Racial Flavour (not that kind of flavor)
Tiur
Producer
As we move ahead with some of our projects, and the consideration of racial skills and flavour, I wanted to hear from you, the players; what you find useful or important, so that we can best put our time to use with development.
What kinds of things do you find important, when it comes to developing your character and their racial tie, or would you like to see when it comes to NPC communities?
Unique holidays
Racial games (Trollish oiled wrestling, Impish kick-the-beehive, Djeri Hazard/craps?)
Cultural foods
Toasts
Clothing/garment/material preferences
How much language would you like to be made available?
Footnotes on age/gender/occupation dynamics?
Etc (fill in your own blank: "I wish I knew more about ___ for ")
Additionally, have you seen other players do something really solid with their racial RP that you think should get more of a spotlight/be taken under consideration as canon? Keep in mind this is not a guarantee nor right.
----
Less serious notes:
All recommendations of Tsol'aa information will be discarded, because I am a racist.
Rajamala Harem Island is already canon, no worries.
What kinds of things do you find important, when it comes to developing your character and their racial tie, or would you like to see when it comes to NPC communities?
Unique holidays
Racial games (Trollish oiled wrestling, Impish kick-the-beehive, Djeri Hazard/craps?)
Cultural foods
Toasts
Clothing/garment/material preferences
How much language would you like to be made available?
Footnotes on age/gender/occupation dynamics?
Etc (fill in your own blank: "I wish I knew more about ___ for ")
Additionally, have you seen other players do something really solid with their racial RP that you think should get more of a spotlight/be taken under consideration as canon? Keep in mind this is not a guarantee nor right.
----
Less serious notes:
All recommendations of Tsol'aa information will be discarded, because I am a racist.
Rajamala Harem Island is already canon, no worries.
0
Comments
There's something of an El'jaziran movement in the game at present, with more and more Human characters casting themselves from a Mhojavian background. The RP is potentially badass but El'jazira is pretty stuck in a niche in which they're subservient to Bloodloch. Personally I'd like to see more desert-dwelling Humans in other areas, like say outposts or nomadic camps for those Humans who chafed under Lochian rule.
Djeirani:
I think they should be a playable race! They have some seriously in-depth lore and culture. A deep caste system; social status and noteability based on skin and hair color; the quasi-Italian royalty motif. Plus we could stop making fun of people who try to RP as them.
Unique holidays/celebrations: I love these because it gives insight into what a given culture values or views as important. Attica had a quest added to it recently that I love where you're essentially helping the entire village celebrate a birthday, and I'd love to see similar things in other NPC settlements that give a little something extra to it. Like a rite of passage for hunters in the Mitrine where you help a young hunter take down difficult prey. Or helping gather things for a village that worships and reveres its ancestors. What do the Mhun do to celebrate the Liberation of Moghedu? What are different marriage/courtship customs like in different regions? What important events do they celebrate? Things like that.
Racial games: If you can code it or imply its existence, I'm all for it. For some reason I imagine Rajamalans playing whatever that Mayan ball game is because Saluria comes off as very Mayan/Incan/Aztec. El'Jazirans? Desert horse races since Jaziran horses are known for speed and stamina. Back when Esterport was still Delos, I used to RP that whenever the arena wasn't being used for combat by players, they have scheduled 'gladiator' fights akin to what TV wrestling is like with Face and Heel fighters, and ridiculous storylines.
Cultural foods: This I am hugely in favor of as food is very heavily influenced by culture. I once had a discussion about what kinds of foods various regions would have in Aetolia based on their surrounding resources and the RL cultures they emulate. For example, Arbothia sells wine in its inn, and also sells a few ingredients used for brewing, which would imply to me that it's in a region that produces a lot of wine/spirits. Also to reference a particular quest in Attica, all of the food you're required to get ingredients for are local favorites, and use ingredients primarily found in the region (fish, cheese, dairy, artichoke).
Language: As far as language goes, I think most racial languages are covered, along with languages from some NPC villages. If you want to go more detailed than that, I'd probably suggest dialects as opposed to out and out new languages. A Kelki from Mournhold wouldn't speak the same way as a Kelki from Kelun Harbor. You could probably have it so that once you've learned the general racial language, it gets broken up further into dialects. Maybe it's too complicated - I dunno, but it's something to consider.
Races in need of more love: Rajas have some pretty awesome lore, but some of it can be difficult to find. At least it was before Ati became a huge thing. Grooks and Horkval could use more expansion too. Like how the hell do they breed? Do they lay eggs (speaking of, which races lay eggs and which ones have live birth, or are they all capable of live birth)? Do Horkval worship/pledge fealty to a queen? Atavians in Aerie and the Atav have caste systems, as do the Grecht - what other cultural Dynamics exist within the other races?
Naming conventions: This can be relatively minor, but I know some people use it in naming their characters. The Mhun, for example, tend to have -entesh in their names. Djeirani names trend towards Italian-sounding. El-Jazirans have Middle Eastern sounding names (apparently the Caentoi in Albedos do too). Attican names are very German. Salurians have names that sound vaguely Mayan/Incan/Aztec.
Whether it's that or the other options listed above (which I am in huge support of), please PLEASE give the older villages/areas some love instead of making new areas to drop lorebombs. There have been a lot of non-playable races added in the past few years, with really cool flavor - but it would be much preferable if that flavor was something that you could tie into a character's background legitimately, instead of trying to bastardize your origin story.
How do various species' reproductive systems work?
*Hot controversial topics*
- Tsol'aa: Pregnancy length- I've ICly heard STRONG OPPOSITION on the answer to this question. Something this seemingly insignificant to the game shouldn't be causing the IGNORE command because people can't agree on the answer. Just make something up and stick it in the HELP file! Save us all!
- Xoran/Kelki/Horkval/Grook: Are they Mammals? Do they get boobs?
- Atavian/Xoran/Kelki/Horal/Grook: Live bearers, or do they lay eggs? We know Kelki roe is a thing.
- Interspecies breeding: Can they? Do half-breed species *really* exist? Are they all Asari and always come out like Mom? Is it a 50/50?
It is hard to RP things consistently when there isn't a official stamp somewhere!Not sure if anyone has really seen it, but Helba is a very good example of an NPC village that feels alive (could use more NPCs wandering around, but I digress). Helba functions on a schedule in some parts, meaning the shops are only open at certain times, or you'll only find an NPC in a given place at certain times. It has a tavern, a post office, refinery for the mines, scout towers. There's a lot going on, and it's neat to see.
I'm not saying every NPC village has to be as complex as Helba, but as I said, it's little things.
(On a real note, I'll come up with something official. Either we will flat out say "We will never answer this." or we'll try to make data)
That is to say: An Azudim (Human) and Yeleni (Rajamala) would have either Human or Rajamala offspring, fully one or the other, not a hybrid.
We'll work on making this type of information more accessible once @Razmael stops cringing.
But, as neat as these sound to my ear, as I said, the trouble for imp players probably doesn't outweigh the nifty (though useless) "benefits". It's not as if these things can't be roleplayed or emoted without being hard-coded in...
With scarification, I feel a little more canonical basis would be nice to work on. At this point, Caolan's designed (and shared with his family) the scars for the Laidir bloodline, but I had to make it up off the top of my head since I couldn't find any accessible information on it. I don't think it needs a mechanic, just maybe some info in a help file or a denizen book on it, or something.
RE: Oiled troll wrestling, I've mentioned before in the class fluff thread, but I would love to see a mechanical wrestling system (oiled or muddied or whatever.) Even if it's just a greenskin (orc, ogre, troll) thing, but it would also be nice to have a mechanical thing. It could be a kind of paper-scissors-rock system, or PRNG based on stats, or anything, but I'd love it.
Cute-Kelli by @Sessizlik.
I would be on board to have Djeirani as a playable race, since I have kinda muddled my own backstory to be a Dark-Elf archetype, that being said, Tsol'aa lore is consistently based around, being the children of the forest, so they always seemed kind of a super Spirit aligned Race....Perhaps something akin to Tsol'aa who used elementalism or were mages would be cool, not that im saying its a must have cause roleplay can workaround and create itself based on a players needs, but myself and Siofra both worked to develop rich elementalist tsol'aa lore and backstory for ourselves and left it super vague to its ties to sapience on purpose for something akin to dark elves practicing magic.
So that would be cool if we could have some sort of place to tie it back to if that is the case.
Also, ability to switch Heritage on new race release would be awesome for those sorts of people who may have ties to different races. Somewhat like we did with the Orc, Ogre, Arqueshi, and Nazetu releases when there were some neat events, I was able to heritage change once from Troll to Ogre which was super cool.
HELP HORKVAL
The file doesn't give me a hive location I can visit or HELP. There's no information about what I can and shouldn't look like. I'm uncomfortable, as an experienced player, knowing that:
, and their chitinous bodies lend them a natural protection unmatched by any other mortal race. These blessings of the body have taken their toll on the Horkvali, however, and they find themselves less prepared to master the magical arts.
is wrong and useless because it's based before statpacks existed.
HELP HORKVALORIGIN
The most this tells me if that, more than likely, women are in charge in Horkvali society, and men are probably fewer and farther between outside of "hives". Cannibalism should be rolled into any cheeky conversation.
That's it.
Let's look at a more modern race.
HELP ORC
Here, I have philosophy, looks (both body and equipment), locations, and religion. It may be a few before I figure out to HELP DUN, HELP RAHN, and then take some time to look for books or other in-game history tied to both things, but I have something to look at all.
What matters to me?
Cycling back to the other HELP files is on our To-Do list, as is giving some TLC to existing areas before creating new ones when it comes to some cultural development.
RE: Heritage
The changing Heritage is a topic of hot debate, as we want to give more meaning to race, not making more of a fashion. This is also a discussion we're having as we look at racial skills, in terms of adding distinct and unique use to each race without falling back into the trap of min-maxing. Heritage is the last hallmark of the race you were before you Ascended. You have 98 levels to decide what that will be before you commit to it.
RE: Help Pregnancy
Maybe, jokes aside. We're working over fleshing out more in depth profiles for each race now, so there's more even coverage of information. Some of this information will leave terrible mental images, and make others rather unhappy in implications of their own reproduction (which falls back onto "what you do in private RP tends to stay there, unless you take it into the public, at which point, don't expect it to be upheld by canon if it deviates").
Making it clearer in help files that Tekal hardlocks your Heritage so make sure you're what you want to be before hand is something we can do.
As I said, it's an issue of debate that we're working through.
More in-depth Heritage discussions can be saved for a dedicated thread.
Dwarves: If I remember correctly Dwarves were promised to be encouraged towards drinking, else they would face unspeakable consequences, in the Town Hall. Though I might be coloring the words of @Tiur a bit here...memory is hazy.
Humans: Since they are a numerous race in many fantasy settings, a flavor ability along the lines of the theme "Adaptability" would be great. Such as an additional language choice, or something else which will show their widespread nature.
Oil Wrestling: I am Turkish and I support any kind of oil wrestling! Now if only we can find a tailor who can sew those "kispet" (wrestler's tights) for all those ready to "get their hands in this" challenging and oily sport.
more Seriously, though, reading through some of the thread makes me really hope those races that aren't well-defined in HELP files (or wherever else) don't receive the DEUS EX RETCON treatment - rather, i'd hope admin will take the time to speak with players who've taken the time to develop their characters' identities into account. maybe this sounds overly-dramatic, but i'd quite seriously be furious to find that all of the things i've thought out and integrated into my character were suddenly WRONG. you know, kind of like what it sounds like happened to @Toz. for real, i feel very strongly about this, and people who've gotten to know Vyx can attest that what i've developed is both consistent and integral to the character.
... but moving on.
without getting too long-winded about it, i feel like some of the conception of race we're using here is inaccurate, promotes harmful ways of understanding race IRL, and ultimately limits what's possible for players to do with their characters in unnecessary ways. sci-fi/fantasy genres tend to conflate a number of concepts - including ethnicity, nationality, culture, species(!!!), etc - with race. are some of these related? sure. are they the same? lol, no. unicorns no. yet, here we are discussing "races" as though they, for the most part, should be treated as ethnically, culturally, etc., homogeneous. this doesn't make sense to me. here in the OOC world, "race" is a complexly-constructed and context-dependent social-economic category, and most of us are aware (i genuinely hope, anyways) that human "races" are not distinct species, race and ethnicity are distinct, ethnicity and culture are distinct, etc. to take my own background for example, i'm ethnically iranian, culturally west-coast-us american, racially coded as white or (sometimes) other, and so on and so forth. i share some of these things with other iranians, but far from all. i share some of these things with other culturally west-coast-us americans, but verrryyyy far from all. h*ck, even "iranian" as an ethnic term is oversimplifying. etcetera, etcetera ad nauseam.
my point is: combining all of these things under "race" has generally been a bad deal. maybe some of you don't particularly care how perpetuating discourse in a game also works to perpetuate it 'outside' (or just think the RL-effects aren't as big of a deal as i do), so think a bit about where this leaves us as players. do you really want "races" in the game to be monolithic? must all race-X be from location-Y, share the same culture, etc? that doesn't make a lick of sense to me as a person who knows this isn't how things work, and it doesn't appeal to me as a player who would like a degree of freedom to be a part of developing lore that expands the game world.
tl;dr this bug is against canonizing static cultural/social/etc identities for the IG races
I think the whole point is being able to offer more for players to draw from in creating back stories and histories and culture for their characters that fits into the existing world instead of blindly making stuff up and finding out later that what they've run with the whole time runs contrary to what actually exists.
I would also like to draw attention to this important point from the rather short first post: If you, or your peers, feel someone is making well-grounded and reasonable, interesting lore considering these gaps, those things should be posted here so that we, the volunteers working on this, can take it into consideration. If it isn't on our radar, we have no reasonable way to hunt it out.
maybe y'all disagree or don't see the big deal or don't even understand what i'm talking about or whatever, but at least do me the courtesy of not assuming i'm out here in left field talking gibberish at a volleyball or something. yes, i read that. as you said, the first post is rather short. however, as i continued reading the thread, it became clear that there've been times when folks' "well-grounded and reasonable, interesting lore" got singularity-bombed - not because they'd come up with something "contrary to what actually exists" (since nothing exists or existed at the time) but because... well, i don't want to assume motivations or anything. it happened, is my point, and i was expressing my feelings about the possibility of it happening again.
i'm also less-than-thrilled by the way the onus is being put on players to bring things to admin/volunteer attention. while i don't expect (and would find it super creepy tbh) that y'all monitor and keep notes on all my or anyone else's RP, i do think there are some things that could be done beyond making a forum post that folks may or may not see. this game's player-base is really pretty small, and some of the races whose lore is not well-established or documented are played by an even tinier percentage of us, so there's a pretty small handful of active Horkval players. ("handful" might be generous, too.) it's hard for me to believe admin either don't know or couldn't easily find out who we are. seems to me this puts you in a position from which to easily find out what we've done through a variety of methods. instead, my impression from the OP and your reiteration here is that we're the ones who have to do this work - on top of the work we've already done of establishing lore where none existed or was available - and even then, it may be ignored. this doesn't inspire feelings of goodwill in me, and i think examples in this thread of people having their RP steamrolled by inattentive admin/volunteers should more than justify my concern. there were gaps, and we filled them. if what we do matters and there's a drive to canonize (which, tbh, i don't really understand the need for), i'd think you should be canonizing player-created lore. right now, it seems like we're being told "we might take it into consideration, maybe". if things i do in-game ultimately don't matter because somebody who's not paying attention to or knowingly disregards what's happening in-game decides "well, it's X now"... why am i bothering? why have i bothered? why not just read a book?
this has been my $5 of opinion, i guess. do with it what you will.