Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
- 3.7K All Categories
- 3K The Midnight Age
- 757 Announce posts
- 125 Newbies
- 6 Class Guides
- 804 Harpy's Head Tavern
- 57 Echo Canyon
- 310 Self-Affirmations
- 163 Town Crier
- 135 The Exchange
- 167 Sparring Grounds
- Combat Guides
- 30 Combat Logs
- 188 Idea Box
- 9 Classleads
- 578 Roleplay Logs
- 107 Aetolia Development
- 5 The Void
- 744 Miscellaneous
- 9 Announcements
- 417 OOC Chat
- 217 Tech Talk
- 47 Scripts
Looking for more active discussion? Join our Discord at https://discord.gg/x2s7fY6
Comments
Will we be seeing more of the cult system? For instance, a small number of us are still in the cult of Heva (although actually it might just be me, now), but nothing whatsoever has come out of that. Has this project been dropped?
Re: the first point, I'm not sure what you mean? If we measure lost lessons in credit value, then instead of spending credits on lessons to lose class, you want to spend lessons on an artifact that lets you lose a class? How is this different? Or do you mean paying a hefty upfront cost in exchange for being able to freely lose classes from then on?
Re: the bolded section, it's... actually much more involved than that? The "element stuff" is not separate from the Shadow/Spirit stuff. There's a lore on why Ascendril can't use Earth and Sciomancers can't use Water, for example. You couldn't keep using Air and Earth with no connection to Shadow, so it's not as vanilla a reskin as you think it is.
@kodaza The best way to make it work, imo, is by making the skills weaker without the hard connection that being in the tether provides. That way, it'd let people still be able to function, but would make true transitions more appealing because you wouldn't be handicapped.
Also, don't forget, you guys can pause your classes when you tether swap. If Tomi, for whatever reason, joined Duiran, I feel it'd be more cost effective for me to just put all 6 of my shadow classes on hold and play as neutral classes until the day I rejoined the Shadow (if it ever comes). They did that specifically for people like me, I feel, who would have a literal heart attack at having to give up (6 x 900 / 2) credits.
I also want to re-prompt for ideas/teasers as to whether Scio/Asc changes may happen in the future at some point, and what direction you, @tiur, have in mind for them. Mind you, I'm just asking for a "I'd like this, even if it never happens" sort of response. No hard commitments, just hype :P
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ SUMMON MAGE REWORK ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
I like ideas >.>
(I'd prefer BEAST).
To stay on-topic: I'd really like to bump @Kalak and his proposed talking point of the alleged barrier to PvP, and your thoughts on the matter -- not even just the crown, but what you see generally as the difficulties (or lack thereof) of getting into PK on Aetolia, and ways that you and your team can help alleviate those -- and then ways that we, as players, can do so as well.
Secondly, there is no power creep. You either learn how to fight, or you don't. Simple as that. If someone suddenly becomes a very hard person to beat in a fight its because they either a) learned they're class and everything therein like the back of their hand or b) paid for an offensive system. So this is just a myth that there's a power creep and a barrier to PvP.
Sure, the EQ crown is annoying, but you don't NEED it to be viable in PK, even for EQ classes. You can always just make sure you are eq-enhanced with your augment points and you'll be fine. This is a hot topic of debate among many people that bounces from both sides of yes/no... but I don't foresee the admin doing a complete refund of EQ Crown with how long its been in the game and the fact that EQ classes are actually based around EQ crown being owned.
Thirdly, Ylem aura and PVP rules are fine as is. The ylem aura stops others from griefing other people just for participating. For example, there have been lessers/minors where newbies go and do them... if we were allowed to PK them just because they were doing them, you'd lose a lot of players in the long run or no one would ever want to do them. Simple as that. Same goes for PvP rules. Your actions have consequences.
As far as Roguery goes, I'm not so sure that it would be conducive to the game to enable rogues because as a rogue, you inherently accept that you don't have access to a large portion of the game and rp accordingly. If you could choose to be rogue and do whatever, your game play would be filled with so much grief that you'd quit the game. Especially if you were a Templar/Sentinel who started helping out the darkie side because they paid you. You sacrifice large portions of mechanical advantages just to be a rogue. Again.. your choices have consequences. Removing the consequences because you want a safety net doesn't help the game at all... it'll only hinder it and remove any sort of negative repercussions for your choices.
This is all just my two cents, I'm not quite sure how the admin team feels about it, but we'll see what happens.
(and what questions I'd be likely to ask)
1. Spirit Tether -
As of late, it appears that the lifer's participation has waned. Without giving away any big secrets, what are the future plans to breathe new life into these two cities and/or their guilds/classes?
2. Future Events -
Do we have any events forthcoming in the near future? The most recent Sapience wide event kept us on our toes, kept us engaged, and was quite entertaining and interesting.
3. Leadership lead events -
This may already exist, but is there a venue that city or guild leaders can approach the pools with ideas for internal events and obtain approval from the divine and assistance with some of the flavor that a mortal player may not be able to create?
4. Exploration -
As noted by @Jaymi already, are there plans on cleaning up the areas with obvious problems with either unreachable rooms or broken trigger manipulations? What can we do to assist you? I hate filling up the bugs queue, but if that's OK with the Pools, I can. At a minimum give you some areas to focus on, based on my atlas, combined with a study of the Aetolian map in comparison to my player created map.
5. Kitsune -
Do we have a potential time frame for release?
- You have to get all class skillsets. Some classes may offer exceptions, but at the presence of tons of passive curing it is imperative that your offense should be full.
- Endgame advantages add a level of power creep, so you either have those advantages or not.
- If you are not having the necessary cure advantages of Survival and RNG advantage of Avoidance, you will get a harder time.
- Good luck with having no audit skills, certain PvE places will mow you down. And you will go down so fast against damage.
- Relics/Artifacts do not make someone a combatant, but they make a combatant far far better. In the hands of non-combatants they offer better chances of survival and escape.
- Coding knowledge is a part of power creep, because paying for offensive system or creating one is a barrier within itself. You need to track afflictions? You have to get an affliction tracker or write one. They all add overhead costs and that raises the barrier.
- Eq-enhancement means 6% less mana/health, meaning it is a trade-off rather then cheap stuff. Eq-crown will still remain as a 850cr necessity over there. 7% speed bump may seem smaller, but it is an advantage. Advantages pile up and up, hence the power creep starts. I do not expect its removal and full-refund but the bad fruit is there. Asking if there is something to do.
- Ylem stuff, also add additional PvP necessity. Small advantages of course, but they help.
Now do not get me wrong, I have PvPed successfully in various games without a problem. I did not write this because I ail from one problem or another or I need to "Git gud". But when I make comparison it is blatant that in Aetolia you need far more to stand a chance and have options.
Ylem advantages are a good example, though, you're right there. They may be small advantages, but even if two combatants have the exact same research perks, the power level of the fight has still been elevated by their presence.
EDIT: Endgame races might be another example as well, actually, recalling something @Toz said off-hand about them being much more common now than they used to be. I don't know what the game was like before they were introduced, or what made them easier to get.
The definition provided by these sources states that it is the items/options in a game becoming obsolete as new content is released, because that new content has more 'power' than the previous content. Example? I buy the EQ crown for it's speed buff. It cost me 850 credits. After a year of having that power, they release another item that renders the EQ crown useless, and I am forced to buy the new item just to compete at the same levels I was competing at with the EQ crown.
It's more blatant in mobas, where the release of a champion makes other options of a similar style useless because the power of the newly released champ is at levels considered OP (so people buy it and revenue continues to flow).
By that definition, Aetolia has 0 power creep.
That said, it is generally accepted/agreed that Aetolia DOES have an entry barrier that must be scaled before you can compete at medium to high levels.
Right, use of the term "power creep" was not proper. Arms race, high entry level, necessities etc etc. Ultimately call it X, Y or Z; I refer to things which raise the barrier.
@Phoenecia I always found it weird that Esterport lacked a bank and post office as the most bustling trading city in the continent. One would think that pile of gold would attract some attention!
To get back to Town Hall stuff, now on Mage hype:
- I always found (perhaps masochistically) the supportive role of the Mages via Crystalism as an attraction point to the class itself. Will you be allowing it to remain (or something similar to it) within the new form of Mages?
Now I'm one of them... they're everywhere... -hiss-paranoia-darting eyes-
To more solidly add to what you said about that, though, way back in the day being an endgame player was something that you strove for. Why? You literally got a free boost to audit + a free affliction cure. Those are massive in combat. It was a chore, though, and it wasn't something I'd say "Oh, I'm just doing that in my spare time." I had to dedicate time to bashing. So much so that I had admins asking me if I was auto-bashing or afk-bashing (while I was bashing half asleep with a trigger that just hit my attack button whenever I got balance)
I suppose this all ties into a vague question about your intent on the future state of bashing, and whether endgame races will be diversified/expanded on further? Yeah. Lets go with that.
Being vague on purpose. AAAAH MORE CULT STUFF
The META fluctuates depending on the class flavor of the month usually as things get buffed/nerfed and whatever or whoever is reigning as king of deathsight. In order to be competitive in the current META, you are usually required to be endgame, at least transcendent with your class but ideally omni-trans, have a thorough understanding of combat, and have some form of system in place (or I guess not so much anymore since FirstAid has been upgraded from what I'm told.).
If anything, I don't believe the game offers enough applicable material in learning how to PK as you progress through the game. The game's intro teaches how balances and certain items work which is great. But beyond that? Not much. You aren't really introduced to afflictions or kill conditions or complex curing outside what other players are willing to teach you. This kind of goes back to PvE largely being restricted to 1-3 skills, where you aren't really encouraged to learn as a player what your other skills do and how best to use them. Because of this module, there's this vast and steep learning curve within the community that continuously generates a huge disparity in population between the tiers of skill level among combatants.
-Class skillsets: This is not a barrier. Its intentional. Under no circumstances should some novice with 0 investment into his skillsets be able to successfully compete with an Omni-trans fighter and win. That's just retarded. So of course, you need to learn your skills to be able to fight. Just like you need to learn to crawl before you can walk.
-Endgame advantages: Not really an advantage when getting to level 100 is stupid easy and most every fighter has achieved this. It's become a standard, a requirement. Something you NEED to be competitive. Also, not a barrier.
-Cure advantages: There is no cure advantage. Sure, some classes have more passives than others, and some have more actives than others. This is by design. Its intentional that some classes don't do so well against others, but perform superbly against some. IE: Shaman v Prae.
- Relic/Artifacts: Artifacts ~= Barrier/Combat ability. If the person is already a good combatant, yes this might make them a little better, but that's not a barrier. That's an amplification of the person and their ability to fight.
-Eq enhancement: This is not a barrier because damage scales based off your health. So to argue that you have 6% less health isn't a real argument for this because you still take the same amount of damage. If you take 10% damage at 6500 health, you still only take 10% damage at 4500 health. Furthermore, everyone has access to this enhancement. Literally EVERYONE. You just have to put in some time/effort into getting level 100, which isn't wholly difficult, especially with all the xp buffs we have now. EQ crown is not as much of an advantage as you are making it out to be, its just annoying because you just might want to have it to perform at PEAK operability. This is not a power creep nor a barrier.
- Ylem stuff: This has almost no barrier to PVP because again, EVERYONE has access to it. To be a barrier, it means it needs to be something that I have that you don't have or that is really hard for you to get. If you already have access to it, it's not a barrier.
POSSIBLE BARRIERS
- Audit skills: There are miniskills that only cost like 600-700 lessons to trans out and provide a significant amount to audit. While this may be a barrier to mitigate damage, it is in no way stopping you from competing. Yes, you might be easier to be killed through specific types of damage, but you can still be venom locked and killed as well.
- Coding knowledge: THIS is arguably the most barrier like thing for PVP out of ALL of the arguments. Reason being is because not everyone is good at it. However, this has no power creep. The Firstaid system is available for everyone and is modifiable by EVERYONE. Additionally, it's always being updated to make it better. People help out everyone else to make their use of Firstaid better as well. An affliction tracker, limb tracker, resto tracker.... all of that can be obtained through hard work, coding, and quite possibly the free systems that are already out there WHICH IS AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE. The only thing I see the coding argument about is because everyone wants an instant top tier killscript written by the admins so that people can instantly win at everything they do. PVP/Coding is not for everyone. So if anything is a barrier, its going to be coding. And that's an acceptable barrier because it forces people to learn something more than just the bare minimum. This is not WoW or LoL where you can faceroll your keyboard and win the game. This is Aetolia, a text based game built off intensive coding and that coding translates to an actual requirement on the player.
TLDR; The only true barrier to PVP is the ability to know how to code an offense and understand combat theory. Everything else is accessible by everyone after a little bit of hard work.
Of course, this all revolves around 1v1 fighting. @Rhyot sums it up quite nicely.
I do encourage you make another thread for your friendly debate, if you'd like! But let's not encourage @Tiur wrath for exploding people because his thread for you guys got derailed.
On average you need 400 of one type of pill, and then you do need the 2000 anabiotic, which is a great amount of gold for a novice to gain, (even hard for an endgamer)
Also, Comms, once city is out of comms they have no way to regain them so in a few weeks when Cities are all out the prices are going to increase.
++ Also just thought of this while writing the above, Are certain classes Admin know are broken/useless in PK ever going to be fixed and able to use once again in combat? I know classleads are suppose to fix those classes but with the lack of people around, or does them I dont think it'll ever happen that way.
Those are the main things I'd love to hear feedback on.
Next question: Townhall style in game, or since so much is predone, Twitch?
Other question: What broken classes? I mean, Cabalist was broken, but that's fixed.
paybribethrow wenches at @Antehe to transcribe the video.