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Townhall - Future
Tiur
Producer
Alright! I'm going to pretend I know what's going on now and that we can move on from the honeymoon phase and get into some serious work. I would, however, like to give you all a chance to ask me and guide me towards what's important to YOU.
So we'll have a townhall. But it will be a softball, with pre-chosen questions of a sort. That's the point of this thread. A problem is timing, we have a lot of timezones and people have jobs, etc. So, mostly pre-done questions and we'll post the results. We're looking at mid to late August. And if this works, twitch after that. We'll pick the date once this thread reaches steady state. (um.. that's chemist for 'no more changes because all input/output balances')
What I need from you:
Let's generate some topics, and rate them in rank of importance. By the end of this thread let's have 5-10 topics to discuss and ask questions within. I usually answer questions willy nilly, but for this, I'll promise higher grade answers than normal. There will be questions within these topics during the live townhall... so while it's fine to put in the questions you want hit on a topic, know that we'll be having admin x player feedback during the actual townhall and let things rise up organically too.
I'll be moderating this pretty heavily. Every couple posts I'll chime in with a reorganized list based on what you guys have been saying. I'll also bring things back on topic pretty viciously.
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NOTE FORBIDDEN TOPICS:
I'm not comfortable promising things by X date. To be frank, I don't have the experience to accurately gauge the difficulty of a project before we embark. I think I've done a good job of making sure the things I talk about actually happen, but there will be things that come off as impossible.
Overarching storyline. There have been leaks and discussions of this before, but I'm not taking that path. I will not answer you if you ask me where we're going with Albedos, or what Severn's really up to.
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Current Topic/Questions of import:
1. PvE
So we'll have a townhall. But it will be a softball, with pre-chosen questions of a sort. That's the point of this thread. A problem is timing, we have a lot of timezones and people have jobs, etc. So, mostly pre-done questions and we'll post the results. We're looking at mid to late August. And if this works, twitch after that. We'll pick the date once this thread reaches steady state. (um.. that's chemist for 'no more changes because all input/output balances')
What I need from you:
Let's generate some topics, and rate them in rank of importance. By the end of this thread let's have 5-10 topics to discuss and ask questions within. I usually answer questions willy nilly, but for this, I'll promise higher grade answers than normal. There will be questions within these topics during the live townhall... so while it's fine to put in the questions you want hit on a topic, know that we'll be having admin x player feedback during the actual townhall and let things rise up organically too.
I'll be moderating this pretty heavily. Every couple posts I'll chime in with a reorganized list based on what you guys have been saying. I'll also bring things back on topic pretty viciously.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE FORBIDDEN TOPICS:
I'm not comfortable promising things by X date. To be frank, I don't have the experience to accurately gauge the difficulty of a project before we embark. I think I've done a good job of making sure the things I talk about actually happen, but there will be things that come off as impossible.
Overarching storyline. There have been leaks and discussions of this before, but I'm not taking that path. I will not answer you if you ask me where we're going with Albedos, or what Severn's really up to.
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Current Topic/Questions of import:
1. PvE
- There was talk some time back of raid bosses and complex instances being developed to make bashing more challenging and to encourage grouping. Is this still in the works?
- How do you feel about the grindy nature of bashing? Is it something you wish to pull away from or continue to embrace?
- How do you feel about players being confined to 1-3 skills when killing mobs? Is this something you'd consider exploring?
- If yes, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Thrims from the Kerrithrim event that controlled players and made people involuntarily attack/kill others but would it be possible to construct an NPC Veteran that can PK players and vice versa? While making all our skills useable for bashing would probably be a massive undertaking and maybe not worth the investment, I wonder if it'd be possible to make a handful of NPCs that roam the game that players can kill/challenge for small special achievements or something.
- Boats and more world!
- Hunting skills?
- Plans for difficulty increases?
- Ylem as a mechanic, currency, tool, etc.
- Random encounters?
- RP vs Mechanical
- My feelings on it
- Frequency
- Player direction as to the future and where their orgs are going
- Factions and how I see them/plan for their use
- Future for Cults, views, etc
- Do we have any events forthcoming in the near future? The most recent Sapience wide event kept us on our toes, kept us engaged, and was quite entertaining and interesting.
- while there's not a huge outlier, it seems like quite a few oldbies have been able to stay in their guild while in another city
- More discussion of orgreqs and RP direction
- Since the removal of the war system, PvP has become detached from the overarching story and thus the core of the game. While I understand implementing a new and improved war system is a massive undertaking, are there any other conflict systems that you have in the works in the mean time?
- Will Order Wars be looked at and revamped at some point? Or are you content with its current design?
- Will city raiding be looked at? Is that even something you guys want in the game?
- Ylem Aura and PvP Rules. Will there be a revision upon them or you are satisfied with how they are?
- This might be a giant can of worms but what kind of content are you hoping to develop for players that reach this point in the game?
- Do you intend to make endgame more unique than it currently is?
- What about Haven Points and Havens in general?
- Commonality of endgame stuff and balancing towards it. Changes?
- What's the plan on getting new blood into the game? I recall IRE utilizing Kongregate and other advertisements in the past. Any similar plans in the future?
- Has IRE considered tackling the writing community like NaNo for new recruits? I recall someone mentioning that the advertisements didn't yield enough to warrant the costs or something. I'm mostly curious as to what markets were being targeted. (Don't really expect an answer for this one lol)
- What originally drew me to Aetolia was an ad and the overall presentation of the game. I never tried a mud before Aetolia and it really blew me out of the water. As I played, the biggest draw for me became the rich story and unique conflict systems at the time. Finally, a game where the players appeared to really be in control! The possibilities felt endless. As the grandeur faded though - what kept me for the longest time ultimately was the community. Eventually that didn't feel like enough to no fault of their own to keep me here. I often think about why and I have many theories but one that comes to the forefront often is this feeling of reaching the ceiling so to speak. As players gradually master different or all aspects of the game, I guess my question to you is, what would be your approach to tackling the issue of the "ceiling" and the feeling of what now? How do you plan to do to keep the game fresh and engaging?
- Cost of entry/skills.
- As of late, it appears that the lifer's participation has waned. Without giving away any big secrets, what are the future plans to breathe new life into these two cities and/or their guilds/classes?
- How do you feel about the limited shopping system here?
- Is there any chance that more shops will be added to the game?
- Would you be open to removing shops all together in favor of an Auction House or Marketplace style system instead?
- Repair skills? Broader armor system?
- Clearly we need to discuss commodities and gold sources
- Are you going to fix the broken or inaccessible areas?
- Emus
- Fruit
- Kitsune - Apparently I'm serious about this now
- Flavor vs Mechanical skillz
- Celani apps
- Todo: Unlease man-eating pumpkins
- Teasers for Ascendril/Sciomancer changes
- ylem/refining
- Neutral support
- Summarized updates on July 23
- Summarized and reorganized July 26
0
Comments
1. Conflict / War
2. Player Shops / Auction House
- How do you feel about the limited shopping system here?
- Is there any chance that more shops will be added to the game?
- Would you be open to removing shops all together in favor of an Auction House or Marketplace style system instead?
3. PvE / Bashing Upgrade- There was talk some time back of raid bosses and complex instances being developed to make bashing more challenging and to encourage grouping. Is this still in the works?
- How do you feel about the grindy nature of bashing? Is it something you wish to pull away from or continue to embrace?
- How do you feel about players being confined to 1-3 skills when killing mobs? Is this something you'd consider exploring?
- If yes, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Thrims from the Kerrithrim event that controlled players and made people involuntarily attack/kill others but would it be possible to construct an NPC Veteran that can PK players and vice versa? While making all our skills useable for bashing would probably be a massive undertaking and maybe not worth the investment, I wonder if it'd be possible to make a handful of NPCs that roam the game that players can kill/challenge for small special achievements or something.
4. Endgame Content- This might be a giant can of worms but what kind of content are you hoping to develop for players that reach this point in the game?
- Do you intend to make endgame more unique than it currently is?
- What about Haven Points and Havens in general?
5. Retention / AdvertisementsWhen I dabbled in Achaea recently, they had a system in place called, I think, Battlerage? Or something similar. A small set of class skills that could only be used on mobs, and had their own separate balance queue. Achaea didn't take, for me, but I really found this awesome—bashing as different classes felt truly different.
I don't expect that to be copied over completely, but in general it's always a little odd when you AB your guild skills, and see a massive list of things that all come down to PVP afflictions. More PVE or even just utility skills would be cool! Right now, if you don't fight, you don't get a huge sense of your class except for whatever RP your guild invests into teaching you.
Heck, even lightly cosmetic things would be neat for class fantasy, like Ascendril being able to leave fires in rooms that don't do anything but put a cozy red line in the shortdesc, or Wayfarers being able to skin animals to produce wearable clothing items that decay after one week.
I know loading up every class with ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つGIVE MOAR SKILLS ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ would take quite a lot of effort and time—and giving tiny utility skills probably isn't worth the amount of effort. But it'd be nice to show a novice who isn't interested in PK their skills and not have to say, "okay, here's your Bashing Skill A, use that until you hit level 60, then switch to Bashing Skill B. Ignore everything else on this list."
how do i get that op kitsune raceWith regards to what @Kodaza said, I think there are currently classes that DO have those nice little fluff skills -- Corpus, for example, has at least three skills whose only benefit is RP (and that's fine!). It would be nice to see, or perhaps have things pointed out to us that we're missing, more of that in other classes.
For questions related to the Town Hall, I was speaking with someone recently about wanting to see more RP events. Since you've taken over, we've had the vampire stuff (which was cool!) and the cooking things (which I didn't partake of). I'd really like to see you stretching your limbs with some more frequent events, though, however minor or major. I realize, of course, these things take exorbitant amounts of time to plan and to prepare and even then no plan survives contact with the players, but I think with your transparency and the general goodwill you've shown towards players, things could go well.
so, I guess my question/comment is, do you have plans for more frequent RP events, even ones that lead into more/changed mechanics? Or, in general, could we talk about RP and its importance to Aetolia, and where you stand on the matter?
2. Flightless birds
3. More Fruit.
4. ???
5. Profit.
my point isn't really to complain -- ok, my point isn't only to complain -- but to say that, more events that don't have an obvious (or at least widely-guessed) mechanical purpose would be welcome to this bug. i'd love events that have no purpose other than fleshing out the world, advancing the story, giving us more insight into the lore. RP-fuel, if you will. i know such events would still require work on the admins' part, but it seems like RP events might be less work than mechanic-release events. story-writing of some kind would happen in both cases, but the former wouldn't require as much coding as the latter, right? and aside from encouraging RP, a benefit of holding more non-mechanical events might be that it would become less obvious (and therefore less like a waiting game) when an event is tied to an expected mechanical change. keep us guessing, you know?
i have a sort of ~wishlist~ of other things, but they're mostly things i'm working on pursuing IC, so not really much point bringing up here. looking forward to the town hall. thx!
Also I have to ask can we more fumology ingredients please. And can we have perfumes as a new fumology item.
And yes. I know how important these topics are. (Not very.)
Some of these things are really small, or a request for things. Feel free to move some of them to Small Questions or one of the idea threads. I really do read those.
While I won't ask for specifics, or deadlines, is there an interest or general theme you might have for differentiating the Magi classes (Ascendril/Sciomancer)?
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Would you be interested in implementing a talent that is almost identical to fishing, except it revolves around hunting animals?
I started MUDding in Imperian, so 70% of my ideas are likely to originate from things that are there.. with that said, is there an interest in adding in the need to repair your gear, limb-specific armor, and the amazon class? (wtb groinkick)
Last couple questions are only playfully serious.
1) In your post you mentioned something about a kitsune race, can that really be a thing?
2) With bashing as simple, mindless, and as easy as it is, are there any plans to make really hard bashing areas that force players to work together, much like what Haven suggested about dungeon crawling areas?
3) Razmael mentioned that what the Wayfarers do in Albedos is play on Hard Mode when they defend the borders/territories. Can that be a thing we can all get involved in as well? Something like Ciem, only more group PVE based and not PK based, but only the people you started the event with can participate instead of everyone flashmobbing it?
4) Will prizebags ever be adjusted or fixed to allow that gold sink to actually be worth while?
5) Will gold gained via bashing get a little more stabilized/lucrative with the recent changes to the curing system and the increased prices/necessity of gold/ash/ice/silver??
6) With the recent change to vampirism and the Gaes of the Progenitor being an actual negative repercussion, will we see any further punishing factors for non-blooded vampires beyond a simple 1% blood loss?
7) When is the next set of Celani spots going to be available for players to submit their resumes? Additionally, do you tend to get decent turnouts with those openings?
I support @Haven idea's 4. Havens/endgames and 5. Advertisement questions. (I do not support idea 2.3, removing shops. I love my shop don't take my shop plz).
I support @Rasani and questions about more transparent lore ideas.
Piggybacking off of that - Is there any way to update our wiki with the lore that's happened already? Something like the events posts but in depth? I ask this because a lot of guilds (specifically shamans but others too) have suffered from 'X told Y but it was never written down so no one knows about it but is expected to know about it'. If the current event is done with, it'd be so nice to have a dump of the lore somewhere to reference.
In support of @Haven's question about the limited number of PVE skills, what is the admin perspective on how skills are focused? Currently, most guild skills are overwhelmingly PVP focused. (To be fair, this isn't without good reason, as PK interactions require a certain amount of complexity, and diverse skills are required for that! So don't read this as a complaint.) Do you feel that the current emphasis within skill sets is fine as it is? Or was this already being considered? Or even, is this something you're currently neutral on, and would want to hear more input from us in the future?
Considering there are a few potential class reworks floating in the ether of Someday, it might be a good Town Hall in general to talk about what a Skill even is, in the current design paradigm. Nothing binding, and nothing that would need to be consistent with other producers or other Town Halls (either past or future). But just the present views at work, in the Tiur-styled transparency (Tiuransparency?) we're all getting used to.
There is NOTHING natural about Shapeshifting the way the -thropes do it. The Old-Druid style of Metamorphosis, yeah, okay, they were getting along with animal spirits or whatever, Squirrel, Owl, no worries. The Ashtani/Ankyrean style of Shapeshifting is literally ripping apart a persons Seams and pushing them to extremes one way, and then pulling them back into line (ish). There's a reason that Shapeshifters are effected by Ylem/leyline disruptions, and there's a reason that Shapeshifters battle with Madness. Because it's NOT natural. Wolves, Crocodiles, Bears, Boars and Ravens don't usually lose their minds and go berserk.
I'm not saying Duiran shouldn't have Shapeshifters, but to claim any special or closer kinship or ties because of how natural, or close they are to the Wilds? I'm not convinced, and I'd argue they're more abherrant than natural.
On top of that, something like this would make me extremely bitter, salty, dirty, and a few other unpleasant flavours, since it would be far far too much like back-pedalling for my taste. Why even bother, then, deleting Atabahi and Bahkatu, making the changes to make Shapeshifters a class-race, if the end result is just going to be to allow Shapeshifters guild-mechanics without being part of a currently established guild. Further, Duiran's close ties to nature don't, and shouldn't, give it first crack at Shapeshifter guild reboot, and to Guild-like privileges to Duirani characters, and totally overlook those in other cities would not only be unfair, but infuriating beyond words (at least to me).
Cute-Kelli by @Sessizlik.
@Phendegwen
Stay connected with Duiran Shifters through a Pack, perhaps?
I would say that what you are speaking of is essentially your character having a very strong connection with both the Illuminai and Duiran (through your RP as a Shifter/Bear/previous Bahkatu), is it not? You are definitely not alone in that. Look at the Carnifex, plenty of whom has/had a deep connection to the guild as well as Spinesreach. And some older Sciomancers, who haven't been in any other guild (aside from Magi, before the split) and who also have a long history of being Bloodlochians. It puts a strain on all these people, having to choose one over the other.
In Lusternia my personal power was a vital aspect of my combat capability and it had multiple utility uses. Regaining it was a constant activity and I could see a direct impact if I stopped. Going rogue was a major pain as you would lose access to a link. It was integrated into multiple game systems.
Here I basically find Ylem to be pointless. If I am lazy I can use a bit to teleport back to my city and I can boost my exp gain slightly. Most of the other powers I have access to would only be helpful in very specific situations. Fighting over foci seems to be intended as a major source of conflict but I am at a loss as to why anyone would bother to fight (and I have yet to see a single battle around a foci).
Honestly the only reason I bother to gather it is the rather large rewards offered by Spinesreach for it's collection (I have no idea why they are offered, though I suppose there is not much else for the city to invest in so why not?). I also know that a few awesome players are able to gather huge amounts of ylem making my own contributions pointless.
Am I missing something obvious? Are there plans to change how Ylem works?
Also what is the deal with ylem madness and the mines? The first time I saw that I thought it was going to be like Lusternia's Insanity system (which I loved) but as far as I can tell it is just RP flavor for why you can only do the quest once a week.
Ylem powers the research trees for the city. This means that all those things you use now and then, being lazy or whatever, cost upkeep every IG week, being drawn from the city reserves, simply to be accessible to the citizens. There have been times when people have ignored going out in search for Minor or Lesser foci for so long that it's actually been feasible to close down a research tree. This means that a bunch of passive perks are suddenly gone, which impacts your life in things like prices going up (because one perk is that shopkeepers get more gold per purchase) or less gold drops from NPCs when hunting.
I'm more than willing to explain it ICly, if you want.
Too much time in the mines DOES do stuff mechanically (the Aetolian version of radiation poisoning).
The gathering of ylem is done to both maintain current levels of activity, and advance certain areas (modifications most specifically). A lot of the benefits for having a happy pylon a newer player would not notice, or take for granted.
Some examples include: Higher crit chance, the ability to learn more than 30 lessons at once (60), 50% reduction to building costs for guilds, elimination of fees for using the banks, being able to create an icon (which eliminates God essence loss on death, aside from having a few other nifty functions), arena modifications, funky ylem items like amulets and orbs, the ability to create vigor elixir, ouabain venom, and elementals to rat with, and the presence of the city portals room...
I could go on, but you get the point. Trust me. You'd notice if some of these things started to disappear.
If ylem levels start dropping, some of these things deactivate, or have to be turned off to build a surplus up, hence why Spinesreach, as an example, is pretty generous for rewarding people who make a solid effort when it comes to ylem gathering. Because it helps the entire city.
Cute-Kelli by @Sessizlik.
It would be interesting to see the stats on the use of research trees and refining skills. I strongly suspect that a majority are very rarely used.
My comments were more to set the stage for my question on what the plans (if any) are for Ylem as a gameplay system. I personally think there are a lot of issues with it but if a lot of players like it then it would also be good to know as it would not be something the admin should invest in changing.
Also, regarding shops, there's a ton sitting out in the refugee camp/Liruma scrubland area after Ashtan went poof that kind of...sit there. Shops are valuable to have, but those are so out of the way and don't really show up on shop directories that they don't really serve much purpose. Any possibility of those getting nuked, relocated, or having that area turned into something useable?
Edit: Oh, there was something in there about shops too. That'd be kinda interesting to have answered too, I s'pose.
Cute-Kelli by @Sessizlik.
Being one of the first Bahkatu when they came out, I know very well about the whole Balance Seams thing- but, although there are shifters who don't play a tie to the Wilds, a lot choose to, and see the madness as instinct overwhelming rational sensibility rather than aberrant (easily logiced given the Seams are a component of the natural world in Aetolia). Everyone who plays a shifter plays their own way, and some characters consider shifting a part of who they are in a more racial sense, rather than just a thing they do for a convenient extra skill that doesn't take a multiclassing spot. But as this discussion is supposed to be about coming up with topics for a townhall discussion rather than arguing game lore this will be my last post on this here, sorry to derail.
Oh, and please don't nuke our refugee camp shops. Some of us have been paying taxes on those things for RL years hoping that they'd be turned more useful eventually. (Unless I am compensated with a FREE GIANT AIRSHIP. This would assuage the pain. Ah, wishes.)
- Ylemcore: That is full health/mana reset, per RL day.
- Warlock: I am not sure how much damage difference it gives, and possibly could not test right now.
- Quickassess: You can assess people without needing to lose your equilibrium by using mana, handy in fights.
- Critical Advantage: That is 5% critical hit chance.
- Refining Skillset: An entire skillset revolving around Ylem, has some advantages, for example using it for endurance/willpower regeneration. Shell defense, etc.
- Tokens and Parxian Orbs: They are good mechanical advantages for your effort.
- Manipulations: Some of them bring more experience (like wisdom) some provides more gold etc. Small skills, some of them are very conditional but there are the options.
But one thing I can tell, it is a detached, soulless system which does not fit to my RP-PvP mentality. I can feel no drive towards it. I would explain my reservations in detail but perhaps this might not be the proper place.
Now on the topic of Town Hall stuff:
1. PvP and Barriers
- Currently one of the matters with PvP is that it is very skillset/arti intensive on 1 vs 1. Will you be taking steps to alleviate some parts of the power creep? For example; there will be any action towards the dreaded Equilibrium Crown?
- Holy Wars and overall PvP will see some form of attention in the future? Perhaps some form of soft-war (PvE and minigame activities) and hard-war(sieges, capturing locations, relic possession battles etc.)?
- Ylem Aura and PvP Rules. Will there be a revision upon them or you are satisfied with how they are?
2. Roguery
I know this is not a favourite topic of many because organizational stuff should be endorsed and such. But that is one of the point of interests to me because mercenary, bandit, pirate, freeblade, sellsword, vagabond roles being absent from a dark fantasy game appears a bit awkward to me. For the record I will put forward:
- Would you be partial to allow some basic necessities such as a general tutor, bank in Esterport (cuts 3% instead of 2% perhaps as a sinkhole) etc.
- Would you allow limited forms of interacting with the Ylem or Refining Skillset? Or should it remain as a deadweight/non-option without cities?
- What is your view on conflicts caused by rogues?
3. Reskinned Classes
- It was mentioned in a recent thread as a possibility to offer optional reskins of classes, fallen forms of existing classes. How would you proceed with that if you found time for it one day?
- Instead of lesson forgetting cost, they'd be artifacts which makes the necessary changes?
- For example, in current Sciomancer/Ascendril case, it could be easy to reskin a Sciomancer or Ascendril since it is only Sciomancy with part of skills which expressly mentions shadow needs to be changed, since Air and Earth are element stuff. Would it be feasible for all classes?
- Would it help with the balance of the game?
4. PvE-Questing
- It is not an easy task but, would you be willing to add NPCs which would go for killing routes legitly? They would of course not be as player-effective but at times they could provide a different outcome.
- The PvE of IRE games is perhaps the weakest part of it. I am prone to see it like a necessary evil to get by rather then an engaging activity. Will there be any steps towards making PvE more interesting to participate?
- PvE/quest dangers/encounters on the roads, cities and wilderness perhaps with a bit of chance to occur? Like a dynamic event, you may come across while travelling/exploring. Would it be possible to add? Kinda like you enter a choose your own adventure moment while exploring places. Instead of usual questing, that would make quite the difference.
5. Misc
- Will you unleash man-eating pumpkins on the world?