Mafia: The Syssin Strike Back

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  • BufordBuford Member Posts: 280 Immortal
    Emir said:

    IKarhast I'm not defending Sibatti, I'm giving my reason for not jumping on the train. 

    Except you didn't mind hopping on it yesterday when 3 people before you had already been voting for her. You added your name to an already-growing train, then suddenly hopped off. Good way to later on be able to feign (if it would have continued into death) innocence.

    As for Lehar, I think that's quite plausible. Been quiet for a big chunk of the game, which is a smart move for an important role such as that. If the Templar can keep Lehar protected, we should be able to whittle down the list and have a constant resource until everyone's exposed.

    ...Unless, y'know, the Iosyne worshipper pops in and does their thing. Not sure if the Knight's protection protects against being primed, but.
  • IlyonIlyon Member Posts: 746 ✭✭✭
    Interesting developments. Lehar's roleclaim, if not challenged, implies that all those messages were fake ones, which gives us some interesting data.

    The messages mentioned three people - Xenia, Jami, and Sibatti. Xenia, as we know, was a citizen. It seems safe to assume that Sibatti is a citizen, too - the syssin wouldn't be drawing attention to one of their own.

    This, then, leads me into suspecting Jami. The first message mentions her, it looks like the syssin may have been trying to get us to trust one of their own. More interestingly, as soon as Sibatti casted a vote on Jami, a train formed on her instead, which would seem like an attempt to prevent Jami from being targeted.

    As such, I am going to:

    VOTE: Jami

  • ValingarValingar Member Posts: 314 ✭✭✭
    I'm short on time, so gonna be quick as I can.

    At this point, as @Lehar is a more-or-less confirmed Psychic since no one has argued against it, it gives us an huge advantage of a confirmed, trustworthy citizen. It will be a lot easier for us to work with logic from someone we know is out to do this right. He should be more than safe for now, despite the reveal - the Knight has a starburst tattoo and isn't even probable to be hit, so he can and should keep his protection on Lehar. It'll get a lot harder for Syssin to try put the breaks or muddle up things with even a single confirmed citizen.

    I'll check on this later and actually read things more carefully, and get some voting done. We haven't lost yet, guys. It's a rough start, but it often is. We can easily pull through to a win still.
  • EmirEmir Member Posts: 386 ✭✭✭✭
    @Buford

    I didn't mind hopping on the train when the train makes sense. Sibatti looks set up, just like you claimed originally. Was pretty slick. Defend her while throwing suspicion on me so you have ammo against the both of us during the day. The more unlikely it is that she's scum the more other people want to kill her. 

    Your plan for arsonist target reveals sounds like at least one of the mafia have been targeted so you're trying to narrow down who it is and take them out before they light the match. 

    Another tell was wanting to lynch whoever if Sibatti ended up being revealed as town through lynching. No townpeople ever post like that. You're posting with foreknowledge of how Sibatti is going to flip once killed, trying to set up the next lynch after that. If Townies were trying to forecast the future they would be focusing on who to lynch if their lynch target flipped Mafia, because they are trying to lynch Mafia and naturally lean towards that result as it's the desired one. You, however, make no mention of anything along that branch and instead only focus on what to do if she flips Town because you know she will flip Town.
    (Web): Toz says, "Emir's Express Evacuation and Existence Eradicator, Every Experience is Explosive - Experience the Entirety of your Existence!"
  • EmirEmir Member Posts: 386 ✭✭✭✭
    Forgot the second potential plan for arsonist target reveal. You know who you have to kill during day/night and who you can just let the Arsonist kill for you, if mafia haven't been targeted. 
    (Web): Toz says, "Emir's Express Evacuation and Existence Eradicator, Every Experience is Explosive - Experience the Entirety of your Existence!"
  • BufordBuford Member Posts: 280 Immortal
    Boy oh boy.

    Re: Hopping on the Sibatti train/it being set up, etc. etc.


    I started that Sibatti train the last round to get her to post. I had no intention of seeing her actually lynched. Why was this a safe bet? Because half the town had already split towards other trains at that time. She was in no danger of actually being killed. And would you look at that, she posted afterwards. Mission accomplished.

    Deciding who to vote for/second point:


    Looking back, I don't know how I didn't catch that goof. That unvote was supposed to be for you, actually, not Karhast - voted for you that round, and you were the one my suspicion was on. You were putting in quite a bit of effort to see Sibatti lynched; I don't get how saying "If Sibatti isn't actually mafia, then I'm going to be even more suspicious of her biggest adversary that I'm already not at all convinced about."

    "Citizens would focus on if their lynch target flipped mafia, not if it flipped civilian, you're clrly mafia"

    ...You're playing with words here and talking semantics in an attempt to make me look guilty. I was defending Sibatti in the beginning, you were on the offensive. My goal was still to kill the mafia - you, who I suspected at the time - and so I had a good feeling that if Sibatti turned out innocent after you pushing so hard, we'd have our mafia. You're grasping at straws with that argument.

    Finally, it's in nobody's interest - mafia or citizen - for the arsonist to remain alive. I don't think it's quite sunk in that right now they're capable of handing this game over to the Syssin if they have targeted two civilians already (which is pretty likely). Sure, mafia can skip the folks that the arsonist has targeted, that is if they want to risk being blown up themselves with every round that passes by where they attempt to let the arsonist do their job for them.

    You're really, really pushing, unlike you have for any other votes in this game thus far, and only after this idea of trying to squash the arsonist.

    Afraid you'll get killed before you get to set off your spiders?
  • EmirEmir Member Posts: 386 ✭✭✭✭
    100% verified scum.

    6 votes needed for a lynch, and there's only 5 town left including the Psychic and Knight. The drunk wins if they die, so they have no reason to help the town. The Arsonist can hide among the town long enough to eradicate the mafia and torch everyone in the end or continue hiding and letting the town mislynch. You know how the arsonist can lose and the Syssin gain control? If the arsonist dies to a town lynch.

    Really, the town needs the Arsonist alive, we need you to kill them and the drunk for us, or this game is over for town.

    Only mafia would want to kill the Arsonist right now. The Town needs them and have a bigger threat to deal with, /you/.

    You're really, really pushing, unlike you have for any other votes in this game thus far, and only after I exposed you as mafia.

    Afraid you'll get killed before you run this town?
    (Web): Toz says, "Emir's Express Evacuation and Existence Eradicator, Every Experience is Explosive - Experience the Entirety of your Existence!"
  • EmirEmir Member Posts: 386 ✭✭✭✭
    Damn it, ruined my perfect mic drop. 2nd to the last line should read:

    You're really, really pushing, unlike you have for any other SCHEME in this game thus far, etc etc etc.
    (Web): Toz says, "Emir's Express Evacuation and Existence Eradicator, Every Experience is Explosive - Experience the Entirety of your Existence!"
  • TeaniTeani Evening Sky SwedenMember Posts: 2,073 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dammit, I don't really like it when Ilyon makes sense, since for some reason, he doesn't seem to like me, but he does.

    UNVOTE SIBATTI

    VOTE JAMI

    I'm also suspicious of Axius for his comment of backing Sibatti after their brief voting on Jami and then switching to a citizen to lynch.



  • JamiJami Member Posts: 31 ✭✭
    I honestly have no idea who to vote for now that my top two suspicious people both have a plausible alibi. Buford and Emir are both iffy, but that's all I've got. I however don't think the Syssin would drop two fake notes and have one be a Syssin. It's a good way for them to get two people killed and likely now that they hope we'll kill another citizen for them
  • BufordBuford Member Posts: 280 Immortal
    6 votes needed to lynch. If the arsonist were to blow up the 2 primed people right now, that drops it to 5 votes needed to finish the round. (9 players left, general lynch vote is 1 + 50%)

    If those 2 primed people were both citizens, you're left with a total of 3 citizens remaining.

    5 votes to lynch, 3 citizens remaining. The citizens will have no choice but to try and persuade the arsonist and the drunk to vote with them to get a Syssin - and that is only assuming all the remaining citizens know who each other are and unify, which clearly isn't the case as you can see right in front of you.

    ...But why would the drunk care about siding with the town, when they could make a spectacle of themselves to get lynched right now and win? There goes another needed vote.

    If the arsonist were to be killed this round, we've got a higher chance of going into the next round with better odds, or even a majority if the Syssin would happen to hit the Knight tonight.
  • SaritaSarita Empress of Bahir'an The Pillars of the EarthMember, Guildmaster Posts: 759 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So I will admit to having spent most of last night focused on other things than this thread (hi there, orrery and people needing curatives for it.) It does look at this point like @Lehar made his roleclaim post about 24 hours ago though, so I'm going to go ahead and guess that it's either real, or he somehow knows the real Psychic and is providing a front.

    Since @Jami is getting a lot of attention at the moment, I will say that I'm slightly more inclined to think she's a citizen at the moment. Both she and Xenia were named as innocent in the fake notes, and Xenia was confirmed innocent through death, while Jami has the benefit of an investigation. I'm not saying she can't be the General, but we still have statistically low chances of that. I'm not ready to jump on a vote train for her right now though when the town seems to be at more of a disadvantage.

    I think @Emir's accusation of @Buford may be worth considering as well. On the one hand, it will help us to know who Iosyne's follower is. On the other, Emir's reaction to the idea sort of made me feel like he have some nefarious reason for not wanting it to work. Maybe his house is crawling with spiders and he doesn't want to let on for some reason, or maybe he's the one sending spiders around himself? Then again, maybe his suspicion regarding Buford was more accurate. Either one of them could be worth looking into, in my opinion.

    Until/unless I hear something else, or maybe Lehar has a better idea, I've taken a look at past vote trains. A few people stood out as voting for now-known citizens (I'm counting Kelliara, Pazradym, Xenia, and Lehar here) and switching their votes to trains too. Starting from the beginning with the first person who did this:

    VOTE: Axius

    (Round one - voted for Kelliara, switched to Lehar, was third on the Karhast train attempt, was named as suspicious by Kelliara who then died. Round two - voted for Jami, switched to the Pazradym train. Current - voted for Jami again.)
  • SibattiSibatti Amidst vibrant flora and treesMember Posts: 192 ✭✭✭✭
    I can get onboard with that logic.

    VOTE: Axius
  • AxiusAxius where I amMember Posts: 249 ✭✭✭
    I find it funny that people suddenly are starting yet -another- vote train. I've mostly tried to figure out who is who, but sure. If it makes sense to take me out, then take me out. I guess my death will ultimately prove my innocence, and then you lot will find yourself down one critical thinker. Though @Sibatti I find it strange that you're just up and turning on me when I had jumped to your defense, and I think you've got your facts wrong, @Sarita I was not named as suspicious by Kelliara. Not to my knowledge. And the only reason why I jumped onto the vote trains? Because we were told to get a move on, and it was clear my suspicions were being ignored. But fine, execute me. Not like there aren't others who are more suspicious. like @Jami. or some of the others.
  • SaritaSarita Empress of Bahir'an The Pillars of the EarthMember, Guildmaster Posts: 759 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kelliara said:

    All this voting for one another, and then unvoting is setting my paranoia on edge. Lots of looking like misdirection and obfuscation, looking like you're doing things, but not really.

    @Lehar.
    @Axius.
    @Sibatti.
    @Emir.

    I'm watching you all.

    Are those facts enough?
  • SaritaSarita Empress of Bahir'an The Pillars of the EarthMember, Guildmaster Posts: 759 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's where Kelliara named you, at least.
  • ValingarValingar Member Posts: 314 ✭✭✭
    @Sarita: Actually Jami hasn't been investigated according to @Lehar's post, so it's pointless at this stage to speculate whether she's the General or not. But yeah, I'm guessing you must've just misread something, nothing more.

    Regardless. It looks to be going to be @Buford, @Emir, @Jami or @Axius this round.

    I can't really make out the guilty party in the Buford x Emir love story right now, beyond two people counter-voting each other, so I'll save speculating on it for a later time. I honestly don't like either of them right now. Emir's self-voting was a strange move, and I'm not sure he really hoped for it to stick judging by how late it came, but Bufford sounds weirdly angry, which comes off to me as a sign of being nervous.

    Then there is the Axius and Jami vote trains - Jami was Xenia's vote for the first round and Axius was one of Kelliara's four named suspects (Lehar, Axius, Sibatti, Emir) during the very same round, both vague negatives but it was the first round, so. Not exactly what any of us could call conclusive, so we're back to analyzing their behavior.

    But yeah, I'd like to wait to hear @Lehar's opinion before I vote as he's the only 100% confirmed citizen. The reason I do this is that Syssin don't need a lot of supportive votes at this point to make a kill happen on their own, if they find a target.
  • EmirEmir Member Posts: 386 ✭✭✭✭
    I've more or less given up on winning, but instead of self voting for myself again I thought I'd try to take out one Syssin . I can flip my vote back to myself and the syssin can all train on me to speed things up if you'd all like. You'd know who they are, but they win after.
    (Web): Toz says, "Emir's Express Evacuation and Existence Eradicator, Every Experience is Explosive - Experience the Entirety of your Existence!"
  • EmirEmir Member Posts: 386 ✭✭✭✭
    Basically, I've laid out all the facts. The only way @Buford isn't syssin is if he's played a next level master tier drunk. I understand my certainty looks fishy, but I promise, I'm just a regular townie. If we don't kill a Syssin this round, town loses. We need the arsonists help and they need our help. I can't be the arsonist anyways, because outing Buford is putting a bullseye on my back and the Knight would be out of their mind to protect me tonight. You want confirmation I'm townie? We can ask @Lehar to waste a round investigating to prove it.
    (Web): Toz says, "Emir's Express Evacuation and Existence Eradicator, Every Experience is Explosive - Experience the Entirety of your Existence!"
  • ValingarValingar Member Posts: 314 ✭✭✭
    @Emir: I disagree in that I don't think we've lost yet, not even close. Early citizen deaths are expected in mafia. But this later time is where Syssin start to lose power. Looking for patterns and following the Psychic gives us every chance of a heureka moment where we can chain every single Syssin in a row, except maybe the General, who might be voting other Syssin to hide by this stage because of his immunity to Psychic.

    At this point, you look most likely to be any of these three: the Drunk, a Syssin who wants to be seen as the Drunk or the Follower pretending to be Drunk. I'm not gonna vote for you and risk your potential drunkeness killing off all our winning chances, but I'd also prefer not to vote with you, since it feels like whatever you're of the three, your winning condition is probably different than mine.
  • EmirEmir Member Posts: 386 ✭✭✭✭
    Well, I've said all I can say. I will keep my vote on Buford, the night will go into a no lynch unless the Arsonist and/or Drunk side side with either town or Mafia, hopefully they kill me tonight, or you all get fed up with me being intolerant and you all lynch me today, only to learn I was just a simple Sciomancer studying the art of blowing things up with singularities.
    (Web): Toz says, "Emir's Express Evacuation and Existence Eradicator, Every Experience is Explosive - Experience the Entirety of your Existence!"
  • LeharLehar farmMember Posts: 65 ✭✭✭
    For my tastes, @Emir is posting way too much and way too often. Either he really is a citizen and trying to defend himself to the nth, or he's some other role and trying to dissuade everyone by simple overload of information. Emir could very well be the general since he's so sure about being investigated by me and having nothing incriminating found. 

    That said, I can get behind the logic about @Axius. This is going to be a pivotal round and unless anyone else has a better strategy, I'll go ahead and

    VOTE: @AXIUS  

    Dearest Knight, won't you visit me this evening?
  • AxiusAxius where I amMember Posts: 249 ✭✭✭
    You guys are mentioning Lynch trains quite often.. I find it funny that this is exactly what a number of you guys are doing right now. There's no debate. There's no discussion. Just "I can get behind this." without any real thought.. but fine. I concede. You folks will lynch me, and you guys will figure out what you want to figure out, I imagine. Hope you guys won't need someone to research the next massive plague that nearly wipes out the entire continent or some such, since I'll be too busy being lynched by people who are using the exact method that I was accused of. Remember that fact.
  • IlyonIlyon Member Posts: 746 ✭✭✭
    Hrm, could someone compose a vote tally? We're on third or fourth train attempt by now, bit hard to keep track :frowning:

    This Axius train, hrm, the fact that Sarita voted for exactly the same people as Axius did doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, as by that logic Sarita would be syssin, too.

    I'll wait how things develop, but for now I think the case against Jami is stronger, so staying with that one for the time being.

  • EmelleEmelle Dreamshaper Tecpatl's CradleMember Posts: 712 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    Current tally:
    Sibatti (1): Karhast
    Buford (1): Emir
    Emir (1): Buford
    Jami (3): Axius, Ilyon, Teani
    Axius (3): Sarita, Sibatti, Lehar
    Not voted: Jami, Valingar

    There are 6 votes needed to lynch.
  • JamiJami Member Posts: 31 ✭✭
    I have no inkling of what Axius is, he's either a Syssin fixated on getting rid of me, or a misguided citizen, but doesn't seem like there is anywhere else for me to vote here

    VOTE: AXIUS
  • ValingarValingar Member Posts: 314 ✭✭✭
    Here goes nothing; this is a sink or swim moment for us. a bunch of less than ideal choices, I'll choose to stick with the one with a confirmed citizen behind it, as we need every single vote to pull this off. The reasoning behind voting for @Axius is not unshakeable, but at this point, we're not going to get any better ones.

    Vote: @Axius
  • IlyonIlyon Member Posts: 746 ✭✭✭
    Okay, fine, I'm going to hammer this. Still think that Jami is a better choice, so hopefully I will not regret doing this - the numbers are getting a tad thin.

    UNVOTE: Jami
    VOTE: Axius

  • EmirEmir Member Posts: 386 ✭✭✭✭
    There are at minimum 2 non town on the Axius train. Snowballs chance in hell Axius isn't town. I know this because I am town and I am not voting for him, yet he's still getting lynched.
    (Web): Toz says, "Emir's Express Evacuation and Existence Eradicator, Every Experience is Explosive - Experience the Entirety of your Existence!"
  • EmirEmir Member Posts: 386 ✭✭✭✭
    I suppose there's a small chance he's the drunk or arsonist, but I doubt it.
    (Web): Toz says, "Emir's Express Evacuation and Existence Eradicator, Every Experience is Explosive - Experience the Entirety of your Existence!"
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